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Warlord
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2010
- Messages
- 129
And the poll isn't a good representation of the global population.
And the poll isn't a good representation of the global population.
Forums represent only a small sample of players. My point was that considering this is a Civ-friendly forum the polls show a surprisingly Civ-unfriendly response. 2K has done a fine job of alienating some of their hardest-core Civ supporters - to the point now where they refuse to purchase the next Civ game. That is what you can infer from those numbers.
This.But not a good representation of the global population, preventing meaningful conclusions about the net change in sales due to Steam Works incorporation.
If the polls constructed on poor sampling then saying "the poll data indicates a net loss of sales" is meaningless. Sure, the poll may indicate that, but if it's demonstratively poorly sampled, then the fact the poll indicates that isn't worth mentioning. It's too anecdotal.
He's not talking about something different, he's talking about the same poll and the poorly phrased options.You may be talking about something different. I was talking about what influence like or dislike of Steam will make on purchases of Civ5. The poll data I posted was for that exact question and shows more Civfanatics decision to purchase Civ5 is negatively influenced by Steam than are positively influenced.
No, the poll indicates that x number of people who visit this site won't buy the game because of Steam. Nothing more, nothing less.The poll data indicates a net loss of sales. To use your example, "losing 20 people, but gaining 10 which would suggest the decision was bad".
You're trying to use opt-in polling numbers from a minority portion of the community to try and draw conclusions.
91 people voted that they wouldn't buy Civ V because of Steamworks. The question is what that number means... and the answer is that it means absolutely nothing. It is not even indicative of 91 lost sales. It is indicative of 91 people dissatisfied with a decision Firaxis and/or 2K made. That's *all*. You can vote that you won't buy it and then buy it... and if you don't like the decision, you even have an incentive to vote that you won't buy it, even if you do plan to buy it, because this forum is being monitored by 2K employees who are presumably reporting to their bosses what the community thinks about various things.
That poll is truly devoid of meaningful information.
Forums represent only a small sample of players. My point was that considering this is a Civ-friendly forum the polls show a surprisingly Civ-unfriendly response. 2K has done a fine job of alienating some of their hardest-core Civ supporters - to the point now where they refuse to purchase the next Civ game. That is what you can infer from those numbers.
But not a good representation of the global population, preventing meaningful conclusions about the net change in sales due to Steam Works incorporation.
If the polls constructed on poor sampling then saying "the poll data indicates a net loss of sales" is meaningless. Sure, the poll may indicate that, but if it's demonstratively poorly sampled, then the fact the poll indicates that isn't worth mentioning. It's too anecdotal.
It appears there is more dislike for Steam than love for it. I think it is reasonable to conclude that Steam is costing 2K some lost sales.
...any lost sale is still a lost sale. It is still money that 2K could have made, but didn't.
You don't need to sample the whole global population before being able to draw a meaningful conclusion. A meaningful conclusion can be gained by even a single person being polled. If that person says that they won't buy Civ5 because of Steam then we can conclude that one sale has been lost (assuming the response was truthful). Whatever number the net sales will be they are now one sale less.
The poll is not too anecdotal to support my two statements:
Do you disagree with my statements?
I am sad that I won't be able to buy Civ5 on release day because I was told not to buy Civ5 on release day.
I told myself not to buy Civ5 on release day because I remember what happened on Civ4 release day. At that time I bought Civ4 on release day and even though my system met the requirements to run the game I could not run the game until several patch iterations later.
Therefore I forbid myself to buy Civ5 on release day until I have evidence that the game runs satisfactorily out of the box.
I am sad that I must wait until Civ5 is deemed safe to buy by the community, but I am even sadder that nothing can be done about selling products before they are ready to hit the market.
I am sad, are you?
You don't need to sample the whole global population before being able to draw a meaningful conclusion. A meaningful conclusion can be gained by even a single person being polled. If that person says that they won't buy Civ5 because of Steam then we can conclude that one sale has been lost (assuming the response was truthful). Whatever number the net sales will be they are now one sale less.
The poll is not too anecdotal to support my two statements:
Do you disagree with my statements?
This.
And you still haven't addressed the other issue here:
Assuming that there are some lost sales, can you give reasons why steam was still not a good idea? Since steam offers free DRM services (Unlike securom, 2Ks usual system), free multiplayer netcode/servers, a free frontend for their mod browser, as well as other systems (like DLC integration). Not to mention the other likelyhood: That the exposure and availability on steam will help drive more sales than the people who 'boycott' (Aka, those who threaten to boycott, I've never seen one actually have any kind of success).
He's not talking about something different, he's talking about the same poll and the poorly phrased options.
I like steam, I prefer to buy games through Steam rather than in stores, through D2D or having a box shipped to me. I answered that poll with 'Steam does not influence this decision either way' because I'm buying Civ 5 because I want Civ 5, not because it was released through Steam. There are litteraly thousands of games available through Steam that I will not buy and that decision has nothing at all to do with Steam itself.
So saying that my decision was not positively influenced by Steam isn't entirely true, but it would also not be true to say that I was going to buy Civ 5 because it was released on Steam. I would buy Civ 5 regardless, however since it is available on Steam and I like Steam and I will buy it through Steam.
I won't drive to Canada to buy a Video game, if there is a game only available in Canda I could honestly say that I would not buy it because it is only avialable in Canada. However, at the same time if I were in Canada I would not be able to say that I was buying that game because it was only available in Canada.
So while that poll can give you an idea of how many people on this site won't buy the game because of Steam that is all it can tell you. It can not tell you if more people will buy it because of Steam because in reality more of us here at CivFanatics care about the game itself than whether or not it's a Steam game. It may very well gain exposure to thousands of people who would have never considered it before but you won't be able to figure that out with a poll at Civ Fanatics. Keep in mind that Steam is really good at generating impulse sales because you can decide that you're bored and want a new game but lazy and not in the mood to go to the store.
No, the poll indicates that x number of people who visit this site won't buy the game because of Steam. Nothing more, nothing less.
Thread: What worries you the most about the Civ 5 yet?
Question: What annoys you mostly?
Publishing (Steam, Deluxe edition, DLC). - 151 votes
Not true Sahkunhuder: The poll was started many months ago. At that time, the forum was still very divided over the issue of steam because most of the people on this forum are hardcore civ fans (and thus less willing to accept change). Also, people who are upset about something are far more likely to post/join a forum than those who are happy.
It's not disregarding the people who posted, that's not relevant at all. It's about basic statistics and economics.
I see no reason why we can't make an intelligent speculation as to how that dissatisfaction may apply to the general population. If one of seven borg Civfantics are so upset as to not buy the next installment of their beloved game then what is the rate of amongst the Civsortafans or the CivyeahitsCivorthatothergame buyers? I can only believe that the fanatics will be more willing to put up with something they don't like and hold their nose and buy Civ anyway (It's Civ! I have to have it!) than the rate that the general population will tolerate something they don't like (It's Civ. meh. Whatever.).
In my own defense I did include two polls in my original post:
That still tells us much. Of 629 votes on a Civ-friendly site in the Civ5 sub-forum 91 (14%) said "I will definitely NOT buy the game, because of Steam". One out of every seven potential buyers here on Civfanatics are so against Steam that they told us they will not purchase Civ5 because of it. Anyone who dismisses this poll as "truly devoid of meaningful information" should take another look at both the dissatisfaction rate and level of intensity before dismissing those opinions.