PhilBowles
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- Nov 20, 2011
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- 5,333
RTS - Dawn of War 2 (or any stand alone expansion of it)
I haven't been able to go back to DoW II since discovering Company of Heroes, since it's basically the same game engine but oversimplifies so many elements - the maps are less complex, with fewer buildings to occupy and less destructible terrain; the factions are too similar to one another and the hero units less interesting and tactically flexible than the company command system; you can't commandeer field artillery or pick up weapons lost by enemy units; there's no vehicle damage system; the ammunition resource is missing; and above all there is no supply system.
I currently have what I consider the best representatives of all game genres I'm interested in on my computer (age being no barrier; I played most when they first came out):
4x TBS: Master of Orion, Master of Orion 2, Civilization IV, Civilization V, Alpha Centauri, Colonization (original version)
Traditional RTS: Cossacks, Starcraft, Starcraft II
Modern tactical RTS: Company of Heroes
Space RTS: Distant Worlds, Sins of a Solar Empire
RPG: Bard's Tale (original trilogy), Baldur's Gate
Wargames: Total War series (all entries except Shogun 1 and Medieval 1)
X-COM (a genre all to itself): UFO Enemy Unknown, XCOM Enemy Unknown
Galciv2 gameplay was one of the most interesting game i have ever played, but like all Stardock games it is completely devoid of lore which kills the immersion factor.
This is very true. Take Sins, for instance - with the very cursory background it has, it made no sense (pre-Rebellion) for you to have multiple Advent factions fighting each other. However, in a game with 3 factions but up to 10 players, this was a routine setup.
I never played GalCiv II, but did download it recently as it was on sale on Steam. I did recently revisit MOO2 (the first game hasn't lasted that well, but MOO2 is still very playable), available through Good Old Games, and from all reviews I've read, Master of Orion 2 is still hailed as the standard against which all space 4x games (4x being a term coined to describe the original Master of Orion) are judged, and which none have yet matched.
Can I ask you something: How is the combat in ES any more simple than in the Civ games? I ask because it drives me crazy when people say that the combat in space 4x TBS games is too simple, but no one ever complains that the combat in Civ is too simple. In both games, you have units with a certain strength, fighting based on basically a die roll.
In Civ, you have multiple units of multiple types supporting one another, and each fights individually. You have terrain features to consider. In Civ V you have flanking bonuses and ranged attacks (in Civ IV you had bombardment). Different unit types are better against specific enemy types, and the combinations of different units the enemy brings to the battle are important.
In Endless Space a fleet engagement is just one die roll - everything in the system fights together. And the configuration of your ships doesn't much matter. Only weapon type (beam, missile etc.) and number of ships makes any significant difference to outcomes, and then often only if certain tactics cards are in play.
So, comparing ES to Civ, how is the combat more simple? It seems to me that with the addition of the combat strategic choices (cards) you can make in the beginning of the battle, that ES has the more complex system.
The card system is a key flaw. It is very easy to predict (and the AI does not seem to favour technologies that give it extra card options, so it's always selecting from its few basic cards), and is all-or-nothing - either you choose the card that nullifies the opponent's attack, and they lose (or vice versa), or you play cards that have no effect on whatever cards the opponent's playing, and so the cards may as well not exist.
P.S. When I say ES combat is "simple and boring" I am mostly thinking of MoO, which near the end game got a little tedious, but the process of designing ships for literally 100s of potential roles(whether or not they were viable) and configurations and then testing them in space combat or planet subjugation blows ES out of the water.
I always found that at higher tech levels, several hundred Alkari missile frigates could destroy practically everything, but it was still hugely fun to do...