The problem with Gatling/Machine guns

Olleus

Olleus

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Oct 30, 2005
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On paper these units looked great, same strength (ish) as an infantry unit of the same era, but can attack without taking damage. Awesome! Sounds like a gatling is better than a rifle in just about every situation. So, in my first games of G&K, I built loads.

Gradually, I've had a change of heart about them and now barely use them. I think I've found the problem with them. Their promotions dont help them defend, it only goes towards their ranged attack strength. So for a unit clearly meant to focus on defending; it can't actually defend itself well at all.

Therefore I've started placing them away from the 1st line during a war (as their life expectancy is too short), and I've been experimenting with other places to put them. 2nd row is interesting, so they can move forward and attack, to weaken the enemy for other units in my 1st line to flank and attack. But this is clumsy when there are many units on both sides. I've tried the flanks of my front, but they don't do too well against nimble cavalry and just weren't great. Now they seem to be relegated to city defence and garisson duties.
 
I would still place them out front... but then back them up with a lot of GW/WW2 Infantry and cavalries. If sieging a city that will require Atomic or Info era firepower (110+ def), I will rotate those Infantry units in and out while making sure they stay healthy and promoted (and in suitable rough terrain), then bring in the Gatlings to reduce the city in conjunction with massed infantry swarming.
 
Their main advantage is that they don't have damage when they attack, and they don't move forward when killing a unit. I find they're best to kill the opposing units that are close by, but you don't want to move forward to that position.
 
Even with the fall patch nerf gatling guns are still not to be trifled with - especially if people manage to upgrade 2-3 into +1 range and/or logistics. They're pretty much unstoppable by that point, unless they're uber flanked + taking many ranged fire. Obviously you can't solely rely on them, but now just have some (immortal-like) cavalry units to prevent flanking/ranged fire.
 
They are positional and defensive units.

Use them to attack across rivers without taking a penalty or station them inside forts/cities/citadels so you can kill enemy units without having to leave the safety of the fort.

They are also good in that archers eventually upgrade to them allowing you to easily (relatively easy anyway) get Logistics or Range upgrades to them which makes them incredible units.

Personally I think Machine Guns are the best defensive unit in the game.
 
It is so much better now than vanilla, when archers only upgraded to crossbows, which upgraded to rifles and "lost" the ranged promotions. Now if only chariot archers upgraded to something useful with civs other than Mongolia or Arabia...
 
I always found it silly that a bow or crossbow could shoot two tiles, artillery can shoot 3 tiles, yet crossbows upgraded to machine guns/gatling guns can only shoot 1. You can eventually upgrade them to another +1 range, in the unlikely event they live long enough- or you can do the sensible thing, and just get the mod called '+1 Range For Post Industrial Ranged Units'. Kindof a long mod name, that ;)

I've used it for a long time now, and while it is in no way a big game-changer, it does make the use of those units far more fun and realistic. Just beware, the AI can be quite annoying with it, too! :lol:
 
i absolutely love gatiling guns and machine guns.There great for crowd control and the bulk of your force shouldnt be gatling guns or machine guns.There support weapons like how cav supports an infantry based force.In one of my let`s plays on my youtube channel i get a gatiling gun as austria with logistics and plus one range...Man does that thing do damage.It was before the patch but even then Gatling guns are still potent and in my persia let`s play i dominated greece with them.

Gatling guns are about how you use them to their effective nature not as a bulk force but as a support weapon
 
They work really well with mounted units that can race in front on them to finish off enemies, cap cities, etc.

I do find them annoying to use with normal melee unit though, as positioning can be tough to make them useful.

They are also fantastic for defense, just normally i'm not playing defense in wars for very long unless it's the Immortal/Deity carpet spams the AI sends.
 
These things are amazing with the range +1 promotion. If you can get in few wars early and level up a ton of bows/xbows you'll be much better off once you hit industrial tech because you'll upgrade your already power levelled xbows to gatling guns. I've been experimenting lately going mass bows and taking the left side of honour as my second tree (for the xp bonus), usually by the time I get to gatlings I have +1 range on a bunch of units and logistics isn't far off. Once you've got logistics, march and range you're golden.
 
They are great in citadels and on front lines where (as others have mentioned) advancing is a bad idea. In situations with a developed front, you can always go with Machine Gun - Infantry - Artillery so the Machine Gun is first, the infantry cleans up if they kill the machine gun, and artillery hits into no man's land as well.

I can't say I build an army around them, but a few upgraded ones are helpful and I'll build a couple more for key situations. I only wish they kept going rather than turning into Mech Inf.
 
By the time I get to artillery, my nuclear tipped ballistic crossbows have vanquished everyone else on my continent.
 
So yeah, here's an example of what I was talking about, maxing out tradition, then taking honour up to military tradition, this guy was +1 range and logistics before he even became a gatling gun. Just two of these badboys and a melee unit have no problem taking city after city from the computer on immortal difficulty.

Spoiler :


Ranged units are actually pretty overpowered in my opinion, including Gatlings & machine guns.
 
I never thought of using them in conjunction with cavalry, but then again I never use much cavalry...

And I agree that with logistics/range they are awesome, but realistically you are never going to get that many units up to that level. I guess I'll give them a try, but I really struggle to think of a reason why I wouldn't rather put my hammers into a foreign infantry instead.

And everyone said that they are great for defence, but they take so much damage defending! Where my other units get a +30% or a +45% (due to promotions) from being on the right terrain, gattlings/machine guns get nothing. That hurts. I find that if I position them in the front of my line, the AI hurts them badly enough in their turn that I have to rotate them out in my turn rather than attacking with them.
 
Lord Olleus said:
On paper these units looked great, same strength (ish) as an infantry unit of the same era, but can attack without taking damage. Awesome! Sounds like a gatling is better than a rifle in just about every situation. So, in my first games of G&K, I built loads.

Gradually, I've had a change of heart about them and now barely use them. I think I've found the problem with them. Their promotions dont help them defend, it only goes towards their ranged attack strength. So for a unit clearly meant to focus on defending; it can't actually defend itself well at all.

Therefore I've started placing them away from the 1st line during a war (as their life expectancy is too short), and I've been experimenting with other places to put them. 2nd row is interesting, so they can move forward and attack, to weaken the enemy for other units in my 1st line to flank and attack. But this is clumsy when there are many units on both sides. I've tried the flanks of my front, but they don't do too well against nimble cavalry and just weren't great. Now they seem to be relegated to city defence and garisson duties.
Click to expand...

Without reading other responses you hit it right on the head . We must remember that Civ is simply a simulation of real life . I get your point about defense value . ( I can 't remember if they fire when fired upon on Defense ) But I also use them on my second line just as you do . Because they take no damage it is great for defense . Oncoming armies who are at a disadvantage anyway have to deal with a heavy punch that takes no damage while there armies do . Gatling/MG are great in tandom with other units . No unit is a stand alone item .
 
Lord Olleus said:
And I agree that with logistics/range they are awesome, but realistically you are never going to get that many units up to that level.
Click to expand...

You only need a few though, you're only going to be taking one city at a time. Defend the the first rush with 4-5 composite bows and then use those same units to counter attack, by the time you take out the first guy you'll usually be well on the way to range, even if you didn't take honour. It's all about keeping your units alive and not losing them stupidly
 
I second what a lot of people have been saying: the trick I've found is to build them as Archers/Composites, use them in combat and by the time you upgrade them to Gatlings a few of them should have Range.

Or play as the English. :D
 
Just put them behind you're melee units that are fortified the enemy wil atack them and end their turn you move you're gatling units and start shooting
 
blackcatatonic said:
I second what a lot of people have been saying: the trick I've found is to build them as Archers/Composites, use them in combat and by the time you upgrade them to Gatlings a few of them should have Range.

Or play as the English. :D
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, the extra range of the English longbowmen does not carry over when you upgrade them.
 
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