New City States

From what we've seen so far, the following new city states are in:

Bratislava - Cultural
Ur - Maritime
Riga - Maritime
Sofia - Militaristic
Panama City - Maritime
Mbanza-Kongo - Unknown, not Maritime

Whilst the following are still in the game:

Monaco - Cultural
Wittenburg - Religious
Zanzibar - Mercantile
La Venta - Religious
Jerusalem - Religious
Prague - Cultural
Cape Town - Maritime
Geneva - Religious
Belgrade - Military

For reference, here are the city states for Gods & Kings:

Cultured:
Brussels
Bucharest
Florence
Kathmandu
Kuala Lumpur
Milan
Monaco
Prague
Warsaw
Yerevan

Militaristic:
Almaty
Belgrade
Budapest
Hanoi
Sidon
Valletta

Maritime:
Cape Town
Jakarta
Lisbon
Manila
Mombasa
Quebec City
Ragusa
Rio de Janeira
Sydney
Venice

Mercantile:
Antwerp
Cahokia
Colombo
Genoa
Hong Kong
Marrakech
Singapore
Tyre
Zanzibar
Zurich

Religious:
Geneva
Jerusalem
La Venta
Lhasa
Vatican City
Wittenberg

Here italics/ shows a city state that would have been replaced due to the inclusive of a new civilization, whilst bolded shows city states confirmed to be in.

So, with that in mind, let's think about what we've seen then.

We know that we have in terms of City States removed:

Maritime: 2
Cultured: 1

In terms of city states added:

Maritime: 3
Cultured: 1
Militaristic: 1
Unknown: 1

So that means that we know that there's most likely a Civ with a Maritime city state in the game, and a Civ with a Militaristic City state in the game, with a third that we as of yet don't know, although probably not Maritime (Mbanza-Kongo is quite inland).

So, what are the options then?

For the militaristic city state:

Almaty - A silk road Civilization?
Budapest - Hungary
Hanoi - Vietnam
Sidon - Phoenicia
Valletta - Malta

Of them the most likely would seem to be Hungary, Vietnam and Phoenicia.

Then the Maritime city state:
Jakarta - Indonesia
Manila - Phillipines
Mombasa - A new African Civilization
Quebec City - Canada
Ragusa - Croatia
Sydney - Australia
Venice - Italy*

*A bit note on Italy is that we'd expect to see other new City States as well:

Venice - Maritime
Genoa - Mercantile
Florence - Cultured
Milan - Cultured

Some have suggested Venice on it's own, but I doubt that ever even crossed the developers minds. If a couple of new cultured city states, and a mercantile one appear, I'd get excited if I wanted Italy in. In any case, from the Mercantile, I'd guess Jakarta at this point.

There's no point really talking about Mbanza-Kongo at this point as we don't know what kind of City State it is.

Anyhow, we can also rule out:

Olmecs
Israel
Czechs
South Africa
Switzerland
Slovakia
Kongo
Latvia
Sumeria
Bulgaria
Panama
Serbia

Let's hope there's some new info soon.

Edit: Belgrade being seen added to the lists

Is it guaranteed BNW will have all the CS introduced in G&K (besides the one made into a full-fledged civ)?

Don't forget that the Sumerians are also ruled out because of Ur...

I wonder if Kongo is a mercantile city-state... It seems the only kind that wasn't replaced along with religious

Ricardo_ said:

Is it guaranteed BNW will have all the CS introduced in G&K (besides the one made into a full-fledged civ)?

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There's already plenty that we've seen that were only added in Gods & Kings.

Menzies said:

For the militaristic city state:

Almaty - A silk road Civilization?
Belgrade - Serbia or Yugoslavia
Budapest - Hungary
Hanoi - Vietnam
Sidon - Phoenicia
Valletta - Malta

Of them the most likely would seem to be Hungary, Vietnam and Phoenicia.

Click to expand...

Personally I would say there's a good chance for a Silk Road civilization too. Silk Road fits into the trade theme, if they choose the Timurids they have in Timur a well-known leader, and it's a region that's been pretty neglected by the series. I'm a bit iffy on Phoenicia, but I guess we can throw it in there for argument's sake. Also, Belgrade has already been spotted as a CS somewhere (don't remember where).

Anyhow I hope we figure out what type of CS Mbanza-Kongo is. It would really help narrow down the possibilities.


EDIT:

Good work with this whole list thingy anyways, it'd be useful for those of us who are hinging on the city states as important indicators of likely civs.

cybrxkhan said:

Personally I would say there's a good chance for a Silk Road civilization too. Silk Road fits into the trade theme, if they choose the Timurids they have in Timur a well-known leader, and it's a region that's been pretty neglected by the series. I'm a bit iffy on Phoenicia, but I guess we can throw it in there for argument's sake. Also, Belgrade has already been spotted as a CS somewhere (don't remember where).

Anyhow I hope we figure out what type of CS Mbanza-Kongo is. It would really help narrow down the possibilities.


EDIT:

Good work with this whole list thingy anyways, it'd be useful for those of us who are hinging on the city states as important indicators of likely civs.

Click to expand...

Well, we can rule out Maritime for Mbanzo-Kongo at least. I've heard it referred to as a spiritual capital for it's people, so to me that would suggest either religious or cultural. As we've only failed to see the Vatican and Lhasa of the religious city states, and we're very unlikely to be lucky enough to see Tibet, and I doubt that the Vatican would be in, we can probably assume that they're cultural. Hmmm...

Brussels - Belgium
Bucharest - Romania
Florence - Italy
Kathmandu - Nepal
Kuala Lumpur - Malay / SE Asia
Milan - Italy
Yerevan - Armenia

Would certainly be interesting.

Can you find the screenshot with Belgrade? I'd like to get as much information as possible into that first post.

The (meager) evidence definitely points to the inclusion of Italy to me, considering:

- The number of new maritime city states
- The two Italian cities on the maritime list
- The absence of Italian cities on the confirmed list (despite the many Italian city states in the game)

It also seems much more likely than a Canadian or an Australian civ, and Zanzibar has appeared in previous screenshots (which makes a Swahili civ unlikely). Jakarta (Indonesia) is the only other city on the maritime list I can see being included in a civilization.

Menzies said:

Can you find the screenshot with Belgrade? I'd like to get as much information as possible into that first post.

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Sorry, don't know where it's on - it's in the "What we know about BNW" thread though, I think, and multiple posters have posted that.

Actually, maritime CS can be found inland.

God of Kings said:

Actually, maritime CS can be found inland.

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Exactly...I was about to post this. Ur was not a coastal city and is in as Maritime. I know people have complained about that. The name Maritime, as a CS is misleading, as well as the ship wheel. I picture Maritime CSs as awesome food producers/sources. Since Ur was the first "city" that came from the agro rev, then I think they're appropriate. I just think of them as "food" CSs, whereas Mercantile are more a "trading" city state. I wouldn't mind if maritime was renamed "agricultural CS", but Maritime has a better ring.

In any case Mbanza-Kongo seems like to be be either cultural or religious.

Menzies said:

In any case Mbanza-Kongo seems like to be be either cultural or religious.

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I agree... I don't think it will be Maritime.

Muzzway said:

The (meager) evidence definitely points to the inclusion of Italy to me, considering:

- The number of new maritime city states
- The two Italian cities on the maritime list
- The absence of Italian cities on the confirmed list (despite the many Italian city states in the game)

It also seems much more likely than a Canadian or an Australian civ, and Zanzibar has appeared in previous screenshots (which makes a Swahili civ unlikely). Jakarta (Indonesia) is the only other city on the maritime list I can see being included in a civilization.

Click to expand...

Zanzibar is not a Maritime city state.

I don't see the relevance of the number of Maritime city states either, as there is only one Italian one, as there is only one of the others. Of the list, Indonesia seems most likely. If we see a Maritime, Mercantile and two Cultural city states that lack explanation, then you get start talking about Italy as likely.

Menzies said:

Zanzibar is not a Maritime city state.

I don't see the relevance of the number of Maritime city states either, as there is only one Italian one, as there is only one of the others. Of the list, Indonesia seems most likely. If we see a Maritime, Mercantile and two Cultural city states that lack explanation, then you get start talking about Italy as likely.

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Venice and Ragusa are both Italian. You're right that we'd have to see a bunch of other new city states for it work.

They could also be "balancing" the lists of CS's. I mean, we have 10 maritime, mercantile and cultured CS, compared to 6 militaristic and religious. Any additions to the militaristic or religious category could just be to try even out the distribution. Even if it is just adding the Kongo as a religious CS and Sofia as militaristic, it takes both those categories up the 7 each.

From the maritime list I'd only like to see Jakarta (Indonesia) or perhaps Mombasa (City might appear in an Omani city list) as an outside bet.

I must admit that the fact we haven't seen an Italian CS is a bit strange, but then again it could be the devs trying to mislead us.

Muzzway said:

Venice and Ragusa are both Italian. You're right that we'd have to see a bunch of other new city states for it work.

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Ragusa is not the Italian Ragusa, it was an initial mistake with the civilopedia, but it was corrected to be the Croatian Ragusa in a patch.

Menzies said:

Ragusa is not the Italian Ragusa, it was an initial mistake with the civilopedia, but it was corrected to be the Croatian Ragusa in a patch.

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OK, that's interesting. That does seriously damage my argument.

Edit: Croatian Ragusa does still fit with a Venetian civilization.

dagriggstar said:

They could also be "balancing" the lists of CS's. I mean, we have 10 maritime, mercantile and cultured CS, compared to 6 militaristic and religious. Any additions to the militaristic or religious category could just be to try even out the distribution. Even if it is just adding the Kongo as a religious CS and Sofia as militaristic, it takes both those categories up the 7 each.

Click to expand...

While possible, there's no precedent for that - there is only precedent for (1) adding new city states for newly adding CS types (mercantile and religious), (2) adding new city states to replace old CS being moved to new CS types, and (3) adding new city states to replace CS "upgraded" to civs. We have never had a situation where they added CS just because (though I'm surprised they haven't), so because (1) and (2) are not happening, only (3) could be happening. Thus it is safer to assume that they're replacing existing CS upgraded to civs than they simply adding new ones.

Muzzway said:

OK, that's interesting. That does seriously damage my argument.

Edit: Croatian Ragusa does still fit with a Venetian civilization.

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You should also note that there is only one extra maritime city state that is unaccounted for.

Yes, Ragusa could be part of a Venetian city state list, but let's just be honest here, they aren't adding Venice as a stand alone Civilization. If they went for anything, it would be Italy, and whilst Ragusa is relevant to Venice, it's not to Italy as a whole.

Menzies said:

You should also note that there is only one extra maritime city state that is unaccounted for.

Yes, Ragusa could be part of a Venetian city state list, but let's just be honest here, they aren't adding Venice as a stand alone Civilization. If they went for anything, it would be Italy, and whilst Ragusa is relevant to Venice, it's not to Italy as a whole.

Click to expand...

I guess some of us will just have to hope that you're wrong there, then.