Getting just annhilated by REF

jeffreybar

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
5
Ok, so I'm on my 3rd attempt at a game now -- only the second hardest difficulty setting, I've played lots of Civ 4 and played the original Colonization back in the day. And yet, I'm getting repeatedly destroyed by the REF. Not only do they outnumber me (a result, I think, of having too few/too large cities and thus those cities taking too long to go from 0 to 50 rebel sentiment), but they're also winning like 80% of the fights. WTF? I'm defending with cannons and mostly veterans inside a fortress. What am I doing wrong?
 
@ jeffreybar

You should post this in the Colonization forum which is located at:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=213

You will find a lot of good information regarding the new games mechanics there.

Welcome to CFC :goodjob:

edit: Thread moved from CivRev forum to Colonization forum
 
Whoops...sorry bout that. I was in the Colonization forum when I registered. Guess it kicked me back out to the Civ one. :(

Nothing to see here folks. ;)
 
Kings troops - both Regulars and Artillery have serious attack Bonus vs. cities (while your cannon have no Defensive bonus...). So defending with Cannon is quite the opposite of right.
Veteran soldiers are not worth a lot, if you had not fought a lot before going indipendant (vs. Natives or other colonies) to level them up - taking advantage of they Leadership promo.

A easy - somewhat exploit'y - approach is to let them take a city, and then attack them, using your cannon (who will now in turn get they impressive Bonus on city attack).
Another - i suspect somewhat closer to what the dev's had in mind - way is to fight while retreating somewhat deeper into the land. Forcing the Kings troops into terrain where you get advantages at wearing them down there.
 
I thought cannons got pretty respectable defensive bonuses when inside a colony... that's not the point, though; the point is that the king's artillery is 1/3 stronger than your cannons and receives a 150% bonus for attacking colonies, which is why they're crushing you.
The point about fighting the REF in the wilderness is bang-on, because you can actually get bonuses for fighting out there, while the imperial troops don't, and when you're outnumbered 3-1 and on the defensive, you've got to press your advantages.

Y'know, I wish they had kept some of the little windows that they had in the first one to explain this sort of thing, they really helped make the game more accessible.
 
Combine those bonuses city attack bonuses with the fact that the king's ships tend to bombard your coastal city defenses to naught, the natural tactic would be to have a plan of retreat and an 'alamo' city inland. I tend to lean towards this combined with native friends attacking the troops following my retreat. The one drawback I notice is that they king's troops do get an xp burst from shredding through the indians. If you place a few small groups a bit off to the side, you can take out a weakened stack of king's troops before they upgrade.
 
Oh yeah, I forgot about the bomardment. I actually just managed to win a game [on pilgrim, so I'm not bragging] the naval way, so I only saw a little of that.
 
Ok, so I'm on my 3rd attempt at a game now -- only the second hardest difficulty setting, I've played lots of Civ 4 and played the original Colonization back in the day. And yet, I'm getting repeatedly destroyed by the REF. Not only do they outnumber me (a result, I think, of having too few/too large cities and thus those cities taking too long to go from 0 to 50 rebel sentiment), but they're also winning like 80% of the fights. WTF? I'm defending with cannons and mostly veterans inside a fortress. What am I doing wrong?

They may win 80% when attacking but they are very weak on defence. I find all out attack with Dragoons to be my best way to win the WOI. If you make sure all your territory is roaded (especially the coastal tiles) and put Coronado in Congress (+1 movement for Dragoons) you can usually set up a central force of Dragoons that can cover your entire territory. Then wherever the REF lands just wipe them out. You never have to defend.
 
They may win 80% when attacking but they are very weak on defence. I find all out attack with Dragoons to be my best way to win the WOI. If you make sure all your territory is roaded (especially the coastal tiles) and put Coronado in Congress (+1 movement for Dragoons) you can usually set up a central force of Dragoons that can cover your entire territory. Then wherever the REF lands just wipe them out. You never have to defend.

It's cheaper to use some soldiers mixed in--you don't need horses, and they get bonuses for attacking and defending in rough terrain. If you get some of the founding fathers that boost them, they can be just as deadly if not more so.

I'll chip in with all the other players here: the WoI is won by counterattack, not by trying to defend against REF artillery in your cities. Although, you don't have much of a choice when they launch an amphibious assault on your city...just have to give it up and then let them get into the wilderness.
 
I'll chip in with all the other players here: the WoI is won by counterattack, not by trying to defend against REF artillery in your cities.

This does seem to be the case. I think this is pretty much the reason why I lost the first couple games. But I gotta say, this seems incredibly counter-intuitive, at least to me.
 
I do not totally agree.

Defending coul be an interesting option, as soon as you don't rely on coastal cities (which are bombarded by man o war) and that you keep a mobile force of dragoons to track down ennemy artilleries. As long as you manage to destroy most of ennemies artilleries, a stack of veteran soldier in a fortress-colony (even stronger if on hills, and with good promotions) is nearly invincible. All ennemy cavalries will be crushed by trying to force your defenses.

So I would say the best is a combination between counter-attack and defenses. But I agree on the fact that enterely rely in defense is the worse option.
 
Defending coul be an interesting option, as soon as you don't rely on coastal cities (which are bombarded by man o war) and that you keep a mobile force of dragoons to track down ennemy artilleries. As long as you manage to destroy most of ennemies artilleries, a stack of veteran soldier in a fortress-colony (even stronger if on hills, and with good promotions) is nearly invincible. All ennemy cavalries will be crushed by trying to force your defenses.

Is this realistically possible though? I mean, I had a very manageable REF size, on only the second hardest setting, and I lost probably 10 soldiers and 4 or 5 cannons on the very first turn, before I even had a chance to start picking off artillery.

The leaving your main city basically abandoned and then attacking once they take it strategy seems to work much better -- so much better, that I agree, it feels like an exploit.
 
Is this realistically possible though? I mean, I had a very manageable REF size, on only the second hardest setting, and I lost probably 10 soldiers and 4 or 5 cannons on the very first turn, before I even had a chance to start picking off artillery.

I am puzzled by this. Did you lose your troops on attack or defence? If on defence, where were they that they could be attacked? I have rarely seen amphibious attacks against colonies, in all my games the kings men just land on the coast and then I go and wipe them out. Did you check your combat log to see what the odds were in those battles?

By 'second hardest' do you mean Patriot level? I'm playing that level now and the biggest single landing so far was 112 troops which I eliminated without loss.
 
The whole 're-take your port city' strategy is another of those things that they already had a fix for in Col1 [if you lost all of your ports you were through] but inexplicably appear to have left out of this one. I liked that rule.
 
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