*Spoiler* Qsc18r3 - Deity Redux Game Progress

shillen - No, I'm not assuming culture flips are off. More and more I'm regretting not getting that Gems space before Carthage. For the Celts it's doubly important to get an Iron source; I did cheat with my Gotm18 knowledge and place a city on the Iron to the North, but now I have to connect it. I was planning to string cities straight North (hence Gergovia's position), but I've been blocked off by Carthage Cultural growth from Acra (not shown here in 1000 BC), so I'll be building East of Rusicade. Being Religious, I should still be able to get more early Temples before Carthage, and these cities are closer to my capital than they are to Carthage's, so I don't believe I'll suffer any culture flips, at least through turn 120.
 
Here are my next 30 turns. I followed Shillen's advice and sold the map every turn, so it took a long time to play these 30 turns.

.
. (trade world map for gold)
.

1450 bc - Gem colony. Verulamium founded.
1425 bc - The Greek built a city near the dye 5 turns before me.
1400 bc - Romans destroy the Greek fish-city. I establish embassy in the Greek capital for 35 gold (future military alliance vs romans perhaps).
1350 bc - Gergovia founded.
1275 bc - LLeorycantores founded.
1250 bc - Buy contact with the English for 56 gold and world map. I trade around the world and gain Egyptian world map, Mathematics, Philosophy, Code of Laws and Map making.
1175 bc - Ignore Japanese demand, and they declare war.
1150 bc - Finally discover Polytheism. Research The Republic 10%. Brempovia founded. Syrplebonium founded.
1100 bc - Trade with France for World map and pay them 6 gpt.
1050 bc - I give a small fee to France to prevent war. France declare war on neoCarthage. I buy Literature for some gpt and gold and sell it for even more gpt and gold.
1025 bc - Augustodurum founded.
1000 bc - Deaths so far: 2 warriors.


I took a pause here to see what I have been doing. I have expanded pretty well (for my standards), and now it's time to produce some military units and attack Rome later. I need more workers too.

925 bc - Peace with Japan.
800 bc - Pay tribute to China. Richborough joins neoCarthage, culture flip.
775 bc - Pay tribute to Greece. Traded almost all my gold and half my gpt for currency so that I could trade Currency for Construction with the English, but they didn't want that.
750 bc -


Savegame at 1000 bc
 
I don't think I'm going to continue with this. I don't really have enough time for it. I've only been able to play to 1000 BC. Here is the ss.
 

Attachments

  • 1000.jpg
    1000.jpg
    97.3 KB · Views: 280
OK,
It looks like the rest of the turns are comming up. I start working on 61+.
 
1500 BC - It clears the treasury out, but I buy contact with England for $36.
China needs contact and I sell it to him for $22.

1475 BC - I get my first useful map trade - wm and $28 to China for Horseback riding. Since they would be insulted without the map, it clearly had value.
(I) My treasury gets emptied to an AI demand. :(

1400 BC (I) - This is the total screw-over game and my total treasury of $17 is demanded.

1200 BC - Verulamium is formed claiming the cow on a river spot.

1150 BC - We finally purchase writing from France for $75 and $4/turn.

1075 BC - Gergovia is formed.

1025 BC - Cash in hand is a demand waiting to happen, so I buy Iron Working from France for $66 and $3/turn.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/LKENDTER-QSC18R3-1000BC.zip
While I have gotten close to the number of cities are my original game, the quality of the cities suck. I lost half of my first ring city locations to the AI. The cities are being built north of the capital. I will soon be claiming all but worthless land.

850 BC - LLeorycantores is formed.
We buy Philosophy for $104 and wm from France.

775 BC - Brempovia is formed.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/LKENDTER-QSC18R3-775BC.zip
 
750 BC - Demand havoc continues and this time China is the problem.
I purchase Code of Laws from France for $8/turn and $34.
We begin 40-turn research on Republic, the big key to get the better cash flow.

710 BC - Sun Tzu is under construction, so we are clearly way behind at the moment.

670 BC - We purchase mathematics from France for $5/turn and $50. Currency is now visible for purchase, and we can use marketplaces badly. There are only 4 mandatory techs to go.

570 BC - Our economy should start to improve a lot soon. Currency and marketplaces will arrive as soon as I can afford it. The double income of Republic is only 31 turns away.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/LKENDTER-QSC18R3-570BC.zip



The redux concept was interesting on paper. However, I can tell knowing the world took a lot of the fun away for me.
If I participate in any future quick games, I will want to have a fresh map to play on.
 
91: 750 BC - Roman legionaries make appearances. Therefore it definitely seems Carthage should be my first target, if I ever reach war mode.

92: 730 BC - Richborough barracks->spearman. Entremont grows to 7, tax-collector hired. Egypt demands TM and 20 gold. I really can't afford to keep giving in to these. I decline. Thank god she backed down.

93: 710 BC - Entremont temple->spearman. Brempovia changed from courthouse to worker. These Iroquois settlers escorted by warriors in my territory are so tempting to capture. England completes the Great Lighthouse.

94: 690 BC - England learned Feudalism. 5 turns to Republic hopefully I can get Feudalism for it.

95: 670 BC - Verulamium temple->marketplace. Gergovia worker->worker.

96: 650 BC - Entremont spearman->spearman. The Romans keep suiciding on Bamicus Speedica. It's on a hill with at least 2 num merc's and an archer in it.

97: 630 BC - Brempovia worker->courthouse. Carthage, Greece, Japan and France learned Monotheism. Rome finally kills a num merc.

98: 610 BC - Camulodonum temple->marketplace. Richborough spearman->spearman. Egypt and Aztecs learned monotheism. Rome learned Feudalism.

99: 590 BC - We learn Republic! I revolt immediately and all my cities riot of course. I should have set them up for anarchy the turn before. But we're now a Republic. I set science back to 0. Lux down to 10%. My gpt deals also ended. We're now making 45gpt. The Republic and 3gpt to China for Feudalism, spices, incense, and 2 gold. I was hoping to get luxes from Rome but they seem to be trading them away already. Oh well Republic to Rome for WM and 9 gold. They wouldn't give me Feudalism for it before so I figure they must have it mostly researched already anyway. Now that I'm making all this money it's time to get ready for war. Richborough switched to warrior. Verulamium switched to warrior. Iron hooked up in 6. Some regular warriors disbanded. France completes the Hanging Gardens

100: 570 BC - Verulamium warrior->warrior. Entremont spearman->warrior. Lots of civ's learned Engineering. Damn it looks like Carthage and Rome made peace, they send their troops home. France completes Sun Tzu's Art of War. Jeez France and Aztecs get everything.

101: 550 BC - Lugdunum marketplace->spearman. I can afford Monotheism or Engineering but I hold off for now. I want to beat up Carthage.

102: 530 BC - Entremont spearman->spearman. Verulamium warrior->warrior. Richborough warrior->aqueduct. Rome got cities on both barb islands at some point, I just noticed them. Sorry for them. The barb camps are still there.

103: 510 BC - Rome learned Engineering. Even with their treasury stuck at 0. I think all the AI's are making off like bandits by selling luxes while we have none to sell.

104: 490 BC - Lleorycantores granary->harbor. Entremont spearman->spearman. Lugdunum spearman->spearman. Verulamium warrior->spearman. That puts the count at 10 veteran warriors, 9 veteran spearmen.

105: 470 BC - Iron connected. Gergovia worker->courthouse. 4 warriors upgraded so far. I take a loan out from the Aztecs, they give me 195 gold for 13gpt. Several cities switched to gallic swordsmen.

106: 450 BC - Alesia marketplace->barracks.

107: 430 BC - Brempovia, Gergovia, and Lleory changed to barracks. Tax-collector hired in Brempovia until it's connected to the road network. England learned Monarchy blah. I'm hoping they get Monotheism before Republic.

108: 410 BC - Lleorycantores barracks->gallic swordsman. Brempovia barracks->spearman.

109: 390 BC - Alesia barracks->gallic swordsman. Entremont gallic swordsman->gallic swordsman.

110: 370 BC - Damn entremont rioted. Bad :smoke: Lugdunum gallic swordsman->gallic swordsman.

111: 350 BC - Richborough gallic swordsman->gallic swordsman. Invention is around. England learned the Republic. :( I knew I should have taken the 1gpt they were offering last turn.

112: 330 BC - Verulamium gallic swordsman->gallic swordsman. Theology is around now too. All my warriors are now upgraded. We have 14 gallic swords and 9 spearmen. Our military is average to England and Iroquois, but weak to everyone else. I imagine Carthage's military isn't that much better than ours since they don't have much territory. Japan demands TM and 19g. I give it to him.

114: 290 BC - It's time for war. I declare war on Carthage. We enter a Golden Age! Our income rises to 98gpt! Plebis Magna captured with 1 casualty. Utica captured with 1 casualty. Ack Carthage has Chivalry.

115: 270 BC - Camulodonum marketplace->barracks. Gergovia barracks->pikeman. Lugdunum gallic swordsman->gallic swordsman. Entremont gallic swordsman->gallic swordsman. Alesia gallic swordsman->gallic swordsman. I buy monotheism from France for WM, 39gpt, and 76g. Buy Engineering from Rome for Monotheism, WM, and 11gpt. Everyone but Rome and England has Theology, Chivalry, and Invention. Rome has Invention and England doesn't have any. I could buy Chivalry for 40gpt but it's really not worth it. Gallic swords are almost as good and they're cheaper to build.

116: 250 BC - Lleorycantores gallic swordsman->gallic swordsman. Richborough gallic swordsman->gallic swordsman.

117: 230 BC - Camulodonum barracks->gallic swordsman. Sabratha captured with 1 casualty. We also capture 2 catapults and their horses. Figures the Aztecs pillaged their horses last turn. It seems the Aztecs are still at war with them. Heh our military is still weak compared to Carthage. They value knights too highly.

118: 210 BC - We have enough cities for the Forbidden Palace now.

120: 170 BC - Blah our lux deal with China ends and all our cities riot. Doesn't make a pretty picture for the last turn of the QSC. Damn I attack Carthage and kill all their defenders except a 1hp knight remains. I just needed 1 more gallic. :( Well I wouldn't normally make peace with Carthage yet. I would capture their capital and probably their ivory city before making peace. But since this is the end of the QSC I make peace now. They give us Theology and Invention and we give them 59gpt and 158 gold. I maximize my commerce in my cities. I buy Chivalry from Rome for Theology, WM, 4gpt, and 107 gold. I buy Monarchy and 8 gold from England for Engineering and Monotheism. I now have all known techs. I buy Incense from the Iroquois for 8gpt.

Here is my final empire. Very ugly picture due to the riots.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/QSC18r3-Shillen-170BC.SAV
 
What an incredible game Shillen! Sorry for reading it before playing myself, but my game feels pretty hopeless already. I won't keep on playing it.

It seems to me that getting republic early was the save for you. It made you able to exchange knowledge with the other civs and also get alot more gpt.

I am still a bit uncertain of how much one should expand in the beginning. In my game, I expanded so much, I had practically no military units or improvements at 750 bc. But perhaps that pays off when I get Republic around 100 bc or so.
 
Well, I managed to finish Gotm18, and here are my final 30 turns:

730 BC - Alesia fin Stlr, beg Spear; Lug fin Stlr beg Stlr

710 BC - Cultures expand; We get some culture space back from Carthage, and found Brempovia just N, NW of Gergovia; Syrplebonum founded near Veru; beg Warr; Augustodum founded SW of Alesia, beg Temple. Gergovia fin Warr, beg Spear

690 BC - Carthage founds Padmium on Coast; culturally cut off this way also; Entremont fin Stlr, beg Spear

670 BC - Cam, Rich in CD; Lux back to 20

650 BC - Rich fin Stlr, beg Stlr

630 BC - Entre fin Spear, beg Stlr

610 BC - Aztecs complete Hanging Gardens; Syrplebonum fin Warr, beg Temple; Agedincum founded on Coast; Alesia fin Spear, beg Spear; Cam fin Stlr, beg Stlr

590 BC - Settlers trying to sneak across Carthage culture to NW of Cam; Lleorycantores fin Work, beg Work; Worker goes to Iron

570 BC - Worker starts road to connect Iron; Workers improving Plains around Richborough and Cam

550 BC - Entre in CD; Lux to 30; Eboracum founded N of Rusicade; We have cultural connection to Lleorycantores

530 BC - Entre fin Stlr, beg Warr; Burdigala founded in N next to Lleory; beg Temple; change Cam to Temple and rush

510 BC - Greeks demand TM and 28 gold (1st demand this game); we accede; Rush Temples at August and Bremp

490 BC - Rich in CD, Lux to 20%; August and Bremp fin Temples, beg Spear

470 BC - Cataractonium founded on Hill to W of Entremont, beg Temple; Rich fin Stlr, beg Stlr; Lux to 10%; form Ent in Entremont

450 BC - Warriors being built; MM Lug to keep Lux at 10

430 BC - Lug fin Stlr, beg Temple; Lapurdum founded on Hill east of Richborough, beg Temple

390 BC - Iron connected; Upgrade 4 Warr to GS; Syrpleb fin Temp, beg Cata; Ritae founded E of Entremont, beg Cata; More catapults

370 BC - Distribute GS to Roman Front

350 BC - Rush temple in Eboracum

310 BC - Upgrade another GS; adjust Defenses vs Roman Units (2 Leg, 3 Spears, 1 Archer near Ritae)

290 BC - Rush Temple in Burdigala; 3 catapults built, more

270 BC - Catarctonum fin Temple, beg Spear; Hurry temple at Lug; adjust defenses

250 BC - Upgrade another GS; not sure what Rome is up to; About 10 Roman units (only 3 Legions), are going through my territory near Richborough and Camu; but, I've also seen about 10 units (almost all Legions) entering Iroq territory to the south (a stranded Warrior scout is fortified down there)

230 BC - Rush temple at Lapurdum; give France 14 Gold and TM when she insists

210 BC - Learn Currency, beg Monarchy

190 BC - Lindum founded

170 BC - Upgrade another GS

150 BC - End


Here is a zoomed image of my 'empire' at 150 BC:



my save game:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/cvst_G18D_bc_150.sav

I've had no wars; only 2 or 3 demands. If I were to continue, I'd get about 3 or 4 more Gallic Swordsmen, and start declaring defensive wars. My goal would be to nick my opponents to death, and get some concessions (hopefully) during peace negotiations. Having a set of catapults gives me the ability to take several hitpoints off invaders prior to actual combat; I'd try to use that to my advantage. However, I do realize I'm incredibly far behind, and I don't think I'd stand much of a chance here.

This has been a good learning experience for me; I know a few things I could do to improve, and should do a bit better next time.
 
Here are my last 30 turns. I miss out twice on tech trades by a single turn. I think if I had sold my maps more as Shillen advises, I would have had a chance at getting the tech before the last player got it rather than after (I think that is why I could finally afford it) and would have been in a slightly stronger position. On currency, I just got unlucky. The last two civs got it between turn 39 and 40 of my research. I need to learn more about early wars. My attempt in this game was pretty pathetic though it did get me a golden age. In all I don't think I did badly for my level of expertise and I learned a lot, so it was a positive experience.

I would like to continue this game at some point, but will probably do GOTM19 first. If I do, I will post the ultimate result here.

750 BC(91): Entremont builds an archer which is sent to Camulodunum.
730 BC(92): France contacts us. I change the deal into one for construction. France will finally sell it. Entremont goes into disorder. Unfortunately, it is too late for any trades. Not good.
710 BC(93):Lugdunum goes into disorder. Alesia builds a spearman. Lux raised to 20%
690 BC(94): Galley lost. Alesia builds a spearman.
670 BC(95): Lugdunum builds a temple. Starts on a settler. Japan demands 4 gold and territory map. I am now at 0 gold and 0 gpt. Entremont builds an archer.
650 BC(96): Richborough builds a spearman which is sent N to Lleorycantores. Lleorycantores sends a warrior N to my town to be. Build brempovia SE of the mountain with iron. This is close to a Carthage city, though with no temples there is no overlap yet.
630 BC(97): Things look grim. I get currency, via research, but 1-2 turns late. 2 turns ago, 3 civs didn't have it. Now they all do so I can't trade it either. Even worse, Rome is looking like it is going to attack next turn. It has legionaires and I am still 4-5 turns to connecting my iron. I optimize for money and trade code of law for a gpt deal with Rome. If they attack, at least I will get code of laws out of it. They may have enough to destroy me though, so it may not really matter.
610 BC(98): No attack by Rome? They may be going for Carthage. I will be in trouble if they go for me. Sell granary in Entremont, as I want some cash in my account and the Entremont isn't using the granary. I change some towns to market places. If Rome isn't going to attack I need cash. If they do attack I will switch back. I sent most of my workers N to connect the Iron. I will need a golden age if I do get attacked. If rome IS going for carthage, it might be worth vulturing.
590 BC(99): Sell the Granary in Lugdunum. It too is just draining my economy. Decide to do my science by turning Bampovia's citizen into a scientist.
570 BC(100):Rome demands my 15 gold and Territory map. Given the huge number of forces crossing my land, I give it to him.
550 BC(101): Greece demands my Territory map. It is his. Most of my core cities are building market places. My economy is poo. The Carthage-Roman war is going to be held on my front yard it seems. Given that it is Legions VS Numidean Mercs, they are probably both in a golden age.
530 BC(102): And the people of the Celtic empire.
510 BC(103): Cower in their huts
490 BC(104): As the earth rumbles with clash of Roman and Carthaginian forces
470 BC(105): And the earth is stained red. Iron is now connected.
450 BC(106): Zzzz
430 BC(107):Aztecs seem to be getting most of the wonders. They have pyramids, great wall, great library, and hanging gardens.
410 BC(108): Lugdunum reaches size 7 and goes into disorder. Entremont finishes a marketplace and starts on a Gallic swordsman. I may try joining the Roman side of the war to get the gems. Something to consider.
390 BC(109): Lugdunum cannot support 7 and drops back to 6.
370 BC(110): Zzzz
350 BC(111): Move some spearmen to the less protected cities near the iron.
330 BC(112): Forgot that this will cause unrest. Add some Luxury to fix and readjust the towns.
310 BC(113):
290 BC(114): Gallic swordman completed in Entremont.
270 BC(115): Market place finished in Lugdunum, barracks started. Lleorycantores whips a temple.
250 BC(116): Temple finished in Lleorycantores.
230 BC(117): Richborough and Camulodunum finish their market places and start on spearmen. Upgrade a warrior to Gallic Swordman. Purchase Polytheism from france for 13 gpt and 8 gold. Enter the middle ages.
210 BC(118): I have a stack of archers and gallic swordsmen. My iron has some protection and Carthage appears to be losing. I think I will try to take the gem town. Ask Carthage to get off my lands. They declare war.
190 BC(119): There are too many defenders in the gem town. He is also has extra troops. My attack is ineffective.
170 BC(120): Trade Right of passage with Rome (in the hopes he can do better vs Carthage). Also decide to get pikemen since I have a goodly amount of gpt. Trade 75 gold 35 gpt and world map for Feudalism. Hopefully that will help vs any carthage attacks.

The save game for 170 bc

Here is a final shot of my empire
 
I would rate this game as far more difficult than your standard deity game. There are several reasons for this which I'll just list out as I think of them.

1) It's a pangaea map with 10 opponents. Lots of tech trades = a faster than normal tech pace.

2) The AI's got extra extra workers. They already get an extra settler and I believe 2 extra workers on deity, and then Cracker's modifications gave them even more. This resulted in the AI:
a. Researching faster due to all the extra roads.
b. Trading for techs more easily due to connecting luxuries/resources more quickly.
c. Expanding faster due to having more food and production to build settlers with.

3) The 'placed' barb camps in a remote location. All the AI's know where the barb camps are without even exploring. They make it a top priority to extinguish barbarians and therefore all sent their starting units towards them. This led to the AI's contacting each other much more quickly than usual, and the human player could not get as much out of trading contacts as s/he normally would.

4) Lack of luxuries/resources near the human start position. It was only possible to get 2 sources of iron, 1 gems, and 1 source of horses at best. This wasn't likely though. It wasn't even easy to get 1 source of all 4. This hurts the human player in a couple ways. The obvious way is the human player didn't have those resources/luxuries for their own personal use. But also the human player had very little to trade to the AI's to get better deals with. Check out SP6 in the Succession Games Forum if you want to see how extremely helpful being able to trade a resource like iron to the AI is. They literally got several techs for free just by letting another civ use their iron.

So I'd say just surviving until 170BC is a feat in itself with this game.
 
Allow me to join Controlfreak in expressing my apologies for signing up and not having participated. The fact is, a sinus/upper respiratory infection came knocking, and I was barely able to complete the GOTM, submitting on April 30th. I had considered playing it today, and adding my posts belatedly; however, since I have already seen the results of QSC18, I think it would be quite unfair. I am the one who missed out, as this could have been an excellent learning opportunity. Again, my apologies, and I hope that you all have had fun.
 
Top Bottom