Star of the Shogun: Realpolitik

Ravus --

I welcome your initiative and I applaud you for bringing forth the values so many here seem to have forgotten. I wholeheartedly support lifting the Bushido Code into everyone's attention. It is as you said: our warriors will live the code, but we all as Immortals of Japan have the virtues in our hearts. You might try to hide it, from others and from yourselves, but it is in vain; the virtues do live inside you and fighting them will only bring darkness to your souls.

I must ask you this, though: you claim that your party does not seek power, only servitude for a government worth serving. Yet you decide to form a party - yes, a political party, and run a campaign for votes. What is it you seek with this? If you win this election, what should happen? Is that not against everything you have spoken?

You skillfully form responses to the stances of all the other coalitions. You claim to disagree with all of them. Yet you have not told us the most important thing. What is the stance you and your party are proposing? What will you do as Shogun, should you get elected, or do you plan to give that honor to someone else? If so, who would that be, given that you have basically claimed all other candidates to be unworthy?

I respect and welcome your ideals, but I must admit I do not completely understand your methods. If you could enlighten us?

OOC: Thank you NinjaCow, and don't feel bad -- I barely remember the names of half the active players and I keep having to check who is actually in which party and what do all the acronyms mean >.< I'm so glad of the cheat sheet on the front page...
 
I want to thank you, Ninim, for trying to bring calm and love to us and our hearts, but unfortunately the time of elections is the time in which politicians forget about their heart and think only of power. Nevertheless it is necessary that who has the power can handle it and do the best possible with it, and everyone is trying to proof that they are, including me in these group. I despise myself for it, for those are values which shall be reminded and present everywhere.
 
I must ask you this, though: you claim that your party does not seek power, only servitude for a government worth serving. Yet you decide to form a party - yes, a political party, and run a campaign for votes. What is it you seek with this? If you win this election, what should happen? Is that not against everything you have spoken?

You skillfully form responses to the stances of all the other coalitions. You claim to disagree with all of them. Yet you have not told us the most important thing. What is the stance you and your party are proposing? What will you do as Shogun, should you get elected, or do you plan to give that honor to someone else? If so, who would that be, given that you have basically claimed all other candidates to be unworthy?

I respect and welcome your ideals, but I must admit I do not completely understand your methods. If you could enlighten us?

Ah, indeed, I had thought my methodology was plain to see. But then I am seeing from an old mans eyes. The Bushido Party is trying to gain votes. But not trying to win. No one from the Bushido party will ever try to become Shogun. Instead what the Bushido wishes to do is expound the virtues of Bushido while hopefully creating a honourable alliance to use as a 'Swing voter Block'.

In politics when a voting race between two coalitions is close they will start to look into other parties to bring in to the coalition to 'swing' the election to them. In most cases this is with a two coalition system and a few extremist straggler parties that have little influence. Most Independent Politicians will have already voted and all that is left is the un-allied parties. These parties will each have their own desires and will be easily 'bought' by the larger coalitions. A few promises is all that is needed as if the small parties try to haggle for more the coalition could scoop up another of the un-allied parties instead.

Creating a swing voter block is the opposite of this, making a alliance large enough that the coalitions must instead court the 'swing alliance'. In this reversal their is no other option. It effectively creates a 3 coalition system but with the third coalition always offering to be a Junior alliance partner to one of the other coalitions in exchange for following the Swing voter Block precepts.

Thus even without technically winning they enforce an aspect of their policy upon the government.

I have proclaimed most to be unworthy as they are currently, yet all people are capable of bettering themselves, in fact I find very little in the current methodology of these groups to be wrong, more in the self justification and false reasoning. I have previously stated some ideas for how the nation could go forward, but this party is less concerned with the destination and more with the path walked upon. We do not mind the path our nation takes as long as it is honourable and we will support any coalition that is so.

I hope this clears things up for those not versed in the political complexities that can arise in times of election.
 
I respect and welcome your ideals, but I must admit I do not completely understand your methods. If you could enlighten us?

OOC: We've been in the same boat since RP1 . . . :p Ravus has a penchant for twisted, complicated schemes that always work out <evil voice> According to plan.

I . . . C? Do I even have a character? Whatever: Myself and the NPCs will vote Saturday. Please try not to turn the thread into a rough approximation of hell while I'm in town today!

I know you will, but it's nice to have the thought in your heads :) :lol:

-L
 
interesting.

Presuming I can vote now, I vote for the Isolationist Party and the Giant Death Robot Party.

The Bushido party I give my acknowledgements towards due to its upholdance of japanese custom in its platform of Bushido, although naturally there are diverging opinions on some matters and the rhetoric tends towards error in some places. No matter, I shall be going to join the yamabushi monks to meditate on the higher mysteries and detach myself from the bereaucratic mode of thought that always seems to intrude into the interior life of one who governs.
 
Although we cannot agree as to the nature of war, or even the make up of the army, one thing is clear - There WILL be war, whether we like it or not. The JDP does not like war, but knows that it is coming anyway - The Isolationists and Appeasers believe that war is not coming, and are over-optimistic about the current state of French relations. It's what you get by being holed up in Kyoto for so long, and never getting any information about the outside world. Sonereal and I have been to Copenhagen, we have heard the people talking - And we have listened to slimy French diplomats, being extremely vague; When you claim to have peace between your nations, you generally do not be so vague to the other nation. Meanwhile, some politicians claim that the future war is largely motivated by El Dorado. The JDP is not this dishonorable, and the war is not entirely motivated by El Dorado. Yes, I mentioned in passing that getting El Dorado from the French would be nice, but I wouldn't go to war against a nation which wasn't as threatening just to get an extraordinarily valuable wonder. In the end, it is not about politics or who will become Shogun; In fact, I support some of the Isolationists policies, of not letting foreign cultures interfere with Japanese culture, and taint Japanese honor - This is a matter of national security, and the well being of our citizens on our borders, who are as valuable to us as the people in the cities - Our own mortal friends who live in our great nation may be killed, or have their lives devastated if the French attack. It is always tragic to lose Japanese lives, and every Japanese life is priceless. However, we must not forget that the French citizens have lives, too. It must be remembered that we cannot go raping and pillaging them just to protect Japan from rape and pillage. If we destroy their lands and kill their civilians, we are no better than they are; It is only the French soldiers and French leaders who are misguided and need to be taught the right path. In fact, not only should the French citizens not be raped, killed and/or pillaged for all their worth, but they should not be forcibly put under our direct rule, especially with the risk of a cruel and heartless Shogun coming into power (OOC: Christos). It is better to leave the cities as semi-independent states of their own, so they do not feel that they are being oppressed by a foreign power, but can still be controlled by our leaders. The JDP is not heartless; The JDP wants the best for everyone, and the least amount of rape and pillage possible; This offensive action that the JDP wants is not to be cruel to the French people, it is to protect both French and Japanese people.

I am voting JDP, and I hope you will vote for us, too. It is the only way to protect the Japanese people.

Spoiler :
OOC: I'm not voting Mercantile just yet, as while it would be best for party politics, I wish to vote for the parties which I support most.
 
Actually the isolationists understand that we will likely come into conflict with the French at some point. El Dorado after all is rightfully japanese land, regardless of french ignorance as to that fact.

The party merely has concluded that immediate war is not beneficial to Japan and its people and as such it has adopted the position of development with an eye towards preparation for a future war with France rather than an all out militarisation. The position resulted from internal discussions where the early opinion of some individuals in the party that a war of extermination should be held immediately was determined to be contrary to Japans best interests and moral values by a significant majority. This particularly being in consideration of the other needs of our people, which would naturally suffer should we put all our efforts to purely militaristic ends. On a related matter it amuses me how people like to presume what the isolationists believe. I would like to once again clarify that isolationism does not mean total hermeticism, rather it means the protection of our cultural heritage from interchange with inferior foreign culture, and non-interventionism in foreign political entanglements that would likely result in Japan being dragged into wars that are not of our direct concern.
 
However, the Isolationists do not properly prepare for war, and a defensive war with France will lead to the raping and pillaging our citizens and land. While you may have come to the conclusion that the French will attack at some point, you have not yet realized how exactly to stop the raping and pillaging of our citizens and land - Are you planning on putting archers all around the borders, or something? That is unrealistic, and it is better (and cheaper) in every way to attack the French first, and not let them destroy us.
 
Whether a future war would be defensive has yet to be determined. Certain individuals within the party indeed think that non-interventionism includes engagements with foreign nations even where their actions directly intrude on our interests, others myself included uphold that positive action, such as an offensive war is perfectly acceptable as the entire modus operandi of our party, and indeed any reasonable party is doing what is best by the Japanese people and advancing the interests and well-being of Japan. It is erroneous to thus say that the isolationist position as a party is to let the french pillage our fields before we do anything, rather it is simply we will prepare for war, and then once the situation has been further clarified in time a precise method of approach will be discerned.


As to your assertion in regards to our understanding of necessary action in regards to preparing for war. I would very much like to know what objective fact informs that assertion. If you cannot produce such an objective rationale for that assertion I think it is safe to say that you are merely engaging in the childish bluster that has so defined the opposition, at least until the formation of new political parties in recent times, since its genesis. Indeed your ad hoc suggestion that the isolationists and the coalition would create a wall of archers to defend japan simply showcases your lack of basis in attacking the isolationist party, considering you had to make it up in a vain attempt to discredit us, presumably because there is nothing that can condemn our ability in regards to our record in governance.

As to our record I will also say that its something which we posess and which the opposition does not, if anything voters should consider that the coalition at least has experience in governance, where the opposition does not and has consistently been negligent, ignoring attempts at bipartisan dialogue from the government and overall failing even in its duties to critique the government leaving it to independents to provide a real counterpoint to the government, and more often then not they concurred with our assesments and brought only minor divergences of opinion to the public sphere. As to the new arrivals to the political scene, if anything that is a testament to the failure of the opposition to provide a robust political environment with its childishness and later inactivity, providing perfect conditions for new and untested political movements.
 
You and christos are the first people in the ruling coalition to advocate offensive action - I am attacking your coalition as other members in the coalition are advocating staying at peace until the French attack and pillage and rape Japan.
 
I offered you a coalition...........

EDIT: Also i left the ruling coalition since the start of the first elections.............
 
I would like to point out that the brigand Christos was expelled from our Coalition for turning traitor against the coalition and publicly advocating positions contrary to both the party line of the Giant Robot Party to which he originally belonged, and the coalition in general. He is not associated with us.

As to the public words of the other members of the coalition, they are merely advocating the coalition line, that we do not declare war immediately and we discern the precise course to take once the situation becomes clearer, all the while making necessary preparations out of due caution. This is nothing different from what I have said to you in regards to a war now.
 
The Federal party has joined the Coalition for Japanese Security and Prosperity

I vote for the Federal Party and JDP
 
I want to thank you, Ninim, for trying to bring calm and love to us and our hearts, but unfortunately the time of elections is the time in which politicians forget about their heart and think only of power. Nevertheless it is necessary that who has the power can handle it and do the best possible with it, and everyone is trying to proof that they are, including me in these group. I despise myself for it, for those are values which shall be reminded and present everywhere.

Ah, but that is merely an excuse, a way to convince yourself you have a reason to do something you know you shouldn't. An event like election is sure to bring heated emotions to the surface, of course, but that is not a reason to let those emotions take control of yourself! If one cannot control his own feelings, how should one be expected to lead a Great Nation?

We all have desires and ambitions, that is only natural. The true Immortal is one who can pursue his goals and still remain true and valiant to what is good and important.

This is my message: you can act strongly and decisively, you can pursue war for honorable reasons, but if you let the last grasps of love leave your heart, you are corrupting both your own soul and the people who pledge their trust in you.
 
Than, please, find me somebody to love. How am I to keep love with nobody to remind me what it is?
 
There is no love. There is only national protection. In order to protect Japan, we will burn Paris to the ground.
 
I know. Paris should become japanese. it will have japanese gonvernor and culture.
 
It must be remembered that the other coalition had plenty of time to consult our plans and did not bring up the point that there was no back up plan for the settler.

They didn't, but I repeatedly called for settling a port city to expand our influence across the Seas, and was ignored. :(

OOC: It is nice to see that Ravus is moving once more into his old ways of swing-vote-ism. :p

I can't be boethered to respond to every post in the last few pages, so I'm going to try and add a new perspective to this debate. :OOC

I have seen many of my fellow immortals recently are calling for war. I have argued long and hard against it, as I find it both unneccesary and irresponsible. However, I ask of my fellow immortals this question: Should your wish be granted, and war come to our fair nation; how many of you will be risking your lives to fight it? You all speak of our soldiers going to war for the safety of our homeland, but how many of you are willing to do what you say we must? Should war come, for whatever reason; I make to the People of Japan this promise: I shall fight in the front lines. Should our nation face war, and our brave soldiers be called to march forth against an enemy, I shall march with them. I will share their dangers and their hardships, I will share their sorrows and their pains. If a mortal man can go to war, then I will do the same, it would be shameful to stay behind when the risk is so much less for me. How many of my fellow immortals are willing to make that same pledge? How many of you are willing to practise what you preach?

DT
Making a Statement :mischief:
 
If war will hapen with the French, i will go to the front line.
 
Top Bottom