Fall from Heaven 0.33g

Terkhen · Jan 8, 2014

I would like to check Fall from Heaven 0.33g to see how guilds used to work, and to decide if (and, in that case, how) I want to include them again in ExtraModMod. Does anyone still have this version around? Or any other version which still includes guilds?

Thanks!

Calavente · Jan 8, 2014

I transmitted your message in the MoM forums in case some old hands there have a shadow install.

Bad Player · Jan 10, 2014

I've got a bunch of old patches including the 10Mb FfH2033g

Terkhen · Jan 10, 2014

Calavente said:
I transmitted your message in the MoM forums in case some old hands there have a shadow install.

Great, thank you!

Bad Player said:
I've got a bunch of old patches including the 10Mb FfH2033g

Awesome

Could you upload it somewhere so I can download it? Do you also have the base FFH2 to which it needs to be applied? Thanks!

ExMachina · Jan 10, 2014

Some of the other big modmods included the guilds in different ways, if you want to check them out for ideas. I know Rise from Erebus and Orbis have them, for starters.

Nor'easter · Jan 10, 2014

I don't know if this is helpful, but I found the original post from the "'Shadow' schedule" thread, which includes a narrative description of the guilds:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6099710&postcount=1

Bad Player · Jan 11, 2014

Terkhen said:
Great, thank you!

Awesome Could you upload it somewhere so I can download it? Do you also have the base FFH2 to which it needs to be applied? Thanks!

Sure let me know what site you want it uploaded to (10Mb).

I have the base files for 2030, 2031, 2032, 2033, and media packs for 2030, 2032, 2033. let me know what site you want it uploaded to (a free site obv!).

Terkhen · Jan 11, 2014

Nor'easter said:
I don't know if this is helpful, but I found the original post from the "'Shadow' schedule" thread, which includes a narrative description of the guilds:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6099710&postcount=1

This started because I was looking to improve the Guild of the Nine and the Mercenary system and I wanted to know more about the original implementation. I found that post, and I decided I had to see Guilds in action. The "effect" and "event strength" system is quite interesting and I think that it could improve both the gameplay and replayability of my games. I have not been able to find any post by the FFH2 team explaning why guilds were taken down or any hints about the ideas they had for the reimplementation of guilds, though.

ExMachina said:
Some of the other big modmods included the guilds in different ways, if you want to check them out for ideas. I know Rise from Erebus and Orbis have them, for starters.

Orbis and Rise from Erebus seem to have a more corporation-like implementation of guilds (they consume resources, provide yields) instead of something closer to what Kael mentioned in the post linked by Nor'easter.

Bad Player said:
Sure let me know what site you want it uploaded to (10Mb).

I have the base files for 2030, 2031, 2032, 2033, and media packs for 2030, 2032, 2033. let me know what site you want it uploaded to (a free site obv!).

Wow, that's great

Sendspace seems to have worked fine for Calavente's re-upload of Orbis so that one should be fine. Mega also allows public sharing so it would work too.

I would like to have a complete version of 0.33g to see guilds live, so I would like to have base 2033, its media pack and the 33g patch.

Thank you again!

[to_xp]Gekko · Jan 11, 2014

guilds were removed because they didn't do much, similar to why the health civic column and other minor things got axed

Calavente · Jan 11, 2014

I miss the health civic...

Not doing much is always debatable.
I never use Law III, Life III, ...etc courage doesn't do much ; fair winds is un-useful in most game,
the Mithril Golem doesn't do much... he is too slow for his time of apparition (cannot even use roads) so their is no interest to get it... save for the fun...
Immortals don't do anything.. save that they allow a 9base str in the upgrade line of champions.

etc....

So, IMO, guilds not doing much can be changed.. especially by taking note from MoM and moving some few things from the tech tree toward the guilds.

Nor'easter · Jan 11, 2014

There was some discussion of guilds in the main FfH2 thread between version 0.33 and 0.34, beginning on page 387 and going on for a few pages. That might be helpful in letting you know what some of the players were thinking.

Also, you probably know that the first post in the Ffh2 0.34 Change log thread mentions removing the guilds and, in some cases, replacing them with wonders.

49. Removed the Guild of Hammers guild (though the wonder remains).
50. Removed the Aerons Bounty guild (now the Aeron's chosen promotion gives a significant bonus to the assassin that recieves it).
51. Removed the Cult of the Dragon guild.
52. Removed the Brotherhood of Wardens guild.
53. Removed the Guild of the Nine guild (now guild of the nine events are open to all players, though they are more rare).
54. Removed the Ratcatchers Guild guild.
55. Removed the Circle of Gaelen guild (though Gaelen is still a reward for the Circle of Gaelen event chain).

82. Added the Guild of the Nine wonder (allows you to hire mercenaries in all your cities).

If you want to do something specifically with mercenaries, there are mod components out there that allow players to hire mercenary units of various types, which might be a nice alternative to keeping the Guild of the Nine.

BvBPL · Jan 11, 2014

You may also want to examine Orbis which still has guilds.

Bad Player · Jan 12, 2014

Terkhen said:
This started because I was looking to improve the Guild of the Nine and the Mercenary system and I wanted to know more about the original implementation. I found that post, and I decided I had to see Guilds in action. The "effect" and "event strength" system is quite interesting and I think that it could improve both the gameplay and replayability of my games. I have not been able to find any post by the FFH2 team explaning why guilds were taken down or any hints about the ideas they had for the reimplementation of guilds, though.

Orbis and Rise from Erebus seem to have a more corporation-like implementation of guilds (they consume resources, provide yields) instead of something closer to what Kael mentioned in the post linked by Nor'easter.

Wow, that's great

Sendspace seems to have worked fine for Calavente's re-upload of Orbis so that one should be fine. Mega also allows public sharing so it would work too.

I would like to have a complete version of 0.33g to see guilds live, so I would like to have base 2033, its media pack and the 33g patch.

Thank you again!

I don't have a huge monthly gig allowance being australian so I won't upload the media pack unless you really need it?

Terkhen · Jan 12, 2014

[to_xp]Gekko;13003061 said:
guilds were removed because they didn't do much, similar to why the health civic column and other minor things got axed

Calavente said:
So, IMO, guilds not doing much can be changed.. especially by taking note from MoM and moving some few things from the tech tree toward the guilds.

If I finally decide to reinclude the guilds in ExtraModMod, I agree with Calavente. We could look for ways to add more things for them

Nor'easter said:
There was some discussion of guilds in the main FfH2 thread between version 0.33 and 0.34, beginning on page 387 and going on for a few pages. That might be helpful in letting you know what some of the players were thinking.

Also, you probably know that the first post in the Ffh2 0.34 Change log thread mentions removing the guilds and, in some cases, replacing them with wonders.

I wasn't aware of these discussions. Thank you for pointing me to them. I'll read them in more detail when I have tested guilds myself, but from what I see it seems the major complaint is what [to_xp]Gekko mentioned; a lack of fluff.

Nor'easter said:
If you want to do something specifically with mercenaries, there are mod components out there that allow players to hire mercenary units of various types, which might be a nice alternative to keeping the Guild of the Nine.

I was aware of Expanded Mercenaries, which incidentally is also for 0.33. It seems quite interesting, specially the system for getting mercenaries with random promotions or unique mercenaries. Do you know any others that do similar things?

BvBPL said:
You may also want to examine Orbis which still has guilds.

As I mentioned earlier Orbis implementation is different than the one included originally by Kael, and is completely different mechanically (it is quite similar to vanilla corporations). I'm looking for something closer to the original design goals of guilds.

Bad Player said:
I don't have a huge monthly gig allowance being australian so I won't upload the media pack unless you really need it?

Sorry, I wasn't aware that you had a data limit when I asked for it. It is okay to not upload it, as long as the game works it is not really indispensable

scutarii · Jan 12, 2014

Do you know any others that do similar things?

Ask from Magister Cultuum

Nor'easter · Jan 12, 2014

I'd forgotten about Expanded Mercenaries.

I remember there was a Mercenaries mod comp originally created by TheLopez, and evidently updated to BtS 3.19 by Strategyonly:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=329903

I haven't tried it, so don't know how it is. I think I remember using TheLopez's original mod comp, but that was years ago. And I think it's used in RFC and some of the RFC modmods.

Actually, I see that Sword of Islam incorporated it:

SoI includes TheLopez's Mercenary modcomp also known from RFC, with some changes:
Regional recruitment system is used for many units, e.g. you can only hire mercenary War Elephants in India and adjacent provinces, Pashtun Warriors in Afghanistan, Sudanese Mercenaries in Nubia and Egypt etc.
It is now possible to hire the basic naval units (if the player has a coastal city)
Mercenaries are named historically, on a per-unit basis, e.g. Camel Archers use Bedouin names while Horse Archers use various Turkic/steppe names etc.
Contracting units out is disabled (it's unrealistic - mercenaries are not "sold" by rulers)

Bad Player · Jan 13, 2014

2033g patch: https://mega.co.nz/#!tFcghDoZ!GIZaPglD_PNBsQmn2pQoiCpSCwASDzERDd0ZhZzS5N4

3033 main file (seems to have been misnamed as 3033 not 2033 but the date is 2008): https://mega.co.nz/#!VMViFYhY!MtHykEJAJFRke7aqIF_UoSxYBdotnf8dOlViHD8KChQ

Terkhen · Jan 14, 2014

Nor'easter said:
I remember there was a Mercenaries mod comp originally created by TheLopez, and evidently updated to BtS 3.19 by Strategyonly:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=329903

Thanks, I will check it out

Bad Player said:
2033g patch: https://mega.co.nz/#!tFcghDoZ!GIZaPglD_PNBsQmn2pQoiCpSCwASDzERDd0ZhZzS5N4

3033 main file (seems to have been misnamed as 3033 not 2033 but the date is 2008): https://mega.co.nz/#!VMViFYhY!MtHykEJAJFRke7aqIF_UoSxYBdotnf8dOlViHD8KChQ

Awesome, thank you! I already downloaded and installed it, and I will switch to BtS 3.17 soon to try it. Right now it crashes on load, which I guess is something to be expected when using the wrong BtS version to load it

Nor'easter · Jan 14, 2014

I have a vague recollection of how the Guild of the Nine used to work back when it was a guild rather than a wonder.

I"m embarrassed to say that I don't remember how it was founded, but I do remember that once it was founded, it could be spread the same way as BtS Corporations. You would build? hire? a mercenary in the HQ city, then send him to another city to spread the Guild there.

As I said, it's only a vague recollection. Sorry I can't be more specific about how it used to work, it's been a while.

Terkhen · Jan 17, 2014

Nor'easter said:
I"m embarrassed to say that I don't remember how it was founded, but I do remember that once it was founded, it could be spread the same way as BtS Corporations. You would build? hire? a mercenary in the HQ city, then send him to another city to spread the Guild there.

From what I saw in my 0.33g game, the Guild of the Nine was founded by the first one to discover currency. Your memory is right about how it did spread

Fall from Heaven 0.33g

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