[MoO] ICEMOD: mod design, race design, strategies

T198 in my Feudal game and things are awesome. Confederation was reached long ago and I mutated in Warlord which along with Subspace Comm will take care of any CP issues and let me crank out a huge fleet.

My big fleet was refitted to capture 9 BB's and I captured all 6 Antarans just now and 3 didn't self destruct. Scrapping them gave me X-Armor and Dampers and the +150 comp along with a couple other techs. I'll trade Quantum D to AI's once I meet the other two.

Now future research paths are better set for me. +20 spies finishes next turn and along with 10 agents and a spy help leader my techs should be safe for now.

I think I know where Orion is, and while refitting my BB to Heavy Particle beam ships I'll now get Microlite Construction and Thorium Cells and then onward to Orion. A dozen of these BB should be plenty.
 
T198 in my Feudal game and things are awesome. Confederation was reached long ago
GG Neilkaz!

Scrapping them gave me X-Armor and Dampers and the +150 comp along with a couple other techs.
And this is just sweet..!

I'll trade Quantum D to AI's once I meet the other two.
Yup it is a good tech to trade, as it is highly valued by a.i. so you can get good techs from them.
In Classic a.i. used to fit Q.Det. on all their ships as soon as they had it.
This allowed you to 'destroy one of their ships in the middle of their fleet' which could generate a cacscade of destruction :)
Although funny, it was a bit dumb. In ICE a.i. no longer fits Q.Det as their #1 special.
 
:) Nice. But there are no secrets. If you want to change more racepicks to experiment or fool around a bit, I would suggest to check out a tool called 'PickHack'.

Good to know. As far as I can tell you've done a great job of balancing things overall and I honestly can think of no changes I'd like to test, other than the Creative issue.

I haven't said it enough times, I don't think: great mod, really revived my interest in the game.

But since while we're on the subject, can you suggest a tool that can edit the tech tree, and works with your mod?
 
can you suggest a tool that can edit the tech tree, and works with your mod?
For modding tech tree, you need OCL_Improved also from Nirran's page.
OCL takes some time getting used to, modding the tech tree is a delicate process, which easily introduces bugs. Not meaning to discourage you at all really, just preparing a modder-to-be :)
OCL can extract many game data into 1 handy text file, and you can then adjust it and write back into your. exe. The file pretty much starts with the tech tree.
As many struggle with their first data extract - quoting another post of mine:
if OCL_Improved.exe is in the same folder as ICEMODx.exe, then startup a DOS prompt.
In the prompt go to the folder where ICEx is located.
Then type:
OCL_Improved.exe -ext -debug -VDC -exe:ICEMODx.exe -txt:mynewtextfile.txt

This wil generate a text file, named mynewtextfile.txt (call it whatever you want)

In this file you can modify the things like Battle Pods space etc.
Once done run:
OCL_Improved.exe -wrt -debug -VDC -exe:ICEMODx.exe -txt:mynewtextfile.txt

And the exe will be updated.

Some mods of ICE have been done manually in the exe and cannot be changed with this tool.
Also note that with overwriting my exe with OCL, the Outpost Ship cost will be broken and will read as 100, while still costing 200.
Offcourse it is fixable as follow:
166609: 64 (100) > C8 (200)
 
T211 and Orion has just been colonized. My Particle Beam ships shredded the Guardian.

I've made many tech trades now with all 7 AI's and after a break will made one more iteration of trying to trade techs that they can have. Many wanted Particle Beam so I let them have it and got all sorts of great techs in return. Some wanted Droid scientists and that is OK. One wanted N-bombs for a great tech so I traded. Some others got Quantum Det so I may soon see some cascades of ship explosions. Subspace Teleporter from Orion is very nice.

Another Antaran fleet is coming but I have 5 turns notice and thx to Jump Gate and Interphased Drive (from trades) I can easily refit and get plenty of Capture BB's there to great them. Nice to also trade for HEF and Megafluxors.

There's still +15 worth of spy techs out there that I'd like to have.

Sakkra are getting beaten up and I think I'll DOW them and try to take a planet so I can have their sub't race and a new system.

While on the subject of tech trading and of course playing Impos the AI's won't usually trade you something that they consider to be equal value to what you're giving them, it would be really nice in the remakes of this game to be able to offer a tech to an AI and ask "what tech(s) will you be willing to trade for this?" !!

EDIT: Game over T250pw as 56 ships and a few of them Death Stars with Convertors were good enough to destroy that horrid jumping Star Fortress. This was a more pleasant outcome than attacking my 6 friends (although Cats broke treaties a couple of time as I was framed). I did take the last lizard planet.

Onward to v10n now. I didn't realize that this was out. I doubt I'll play much til tomorrow. I will use the same Feudal super race.

This was a fortunate game with a superb start and all 7 AI's wanting to play nice and friendly. Having Amb. Garron early helped get deals done and his megawealth was useful as well.
 
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Note that even if you are Repulsive you can do some diplomacy, simply by requesting and audience with a race and then exit. This is considered to be a 'saying hello' in moo2 and it improves relations (or at least makes them deteriorate less quickly)
That is very strange. How do we know that this is true?
 
How do we know that this is true?
Just some 'emperical evidence'... have played Repulsive toooo many times.
Give it a try, saying hello every 5-15 turns (can't be precise really), it can change opponents stance with you and make a difference between getting into a war or not. :)

It also works when you are not repulsive offcourse and it also works if your opponent is repulsive.
 
Haha, really, it works on repeats too?

There go my last scruples about tech gifting.

__________

Neilkaz, since you like to write those playthrough reports too: next time you feel an urge to play that Unibalanced of yours, if you feel like writing a more detailed summary on how you develop that, I'd read that avidly.

Especially the first 120 turns or so. 'cause I'm having trouble not falling behind in tech with it, and/or attracting unfavorable wars. Sure, I build research labs everywhere for the autoRP, but that only goes so far.

How do you do colonisation? Full production until you have everything you wanted, despite pollution, or split with scientists? And how soon do you build a fleet and what kind, if there are no monsters guarding planets in range?
 
I had no idea about saying "hi" when repulsive. I'll try that out in a start up walkthrough as requested by Markus.

I'll start a new thread which should be relevant for a while since I think Rocco is done with any serious balance changes for a while.
 
This was a fortunate game with a superb start and all 7 AI's wanting to play nice and friendly. Having Amb. Garron early helped get deals done
I like that this scenario can occur too, and 7 friendly a.i. is quite an achievement..!

I'll start a new thread which should be relevant for a while since I think Rocco is done with any serious balance changes for a while.
Yep, lets say we go with this version till end of december at least.

I'll try that out in a start up walkthrough as requested by Markus.
Looking forward!
 
Looking forward as well!

Is it okay that I'm posting my war reports in this thread? I figured this was THE Icemod thread, even if I no longer have much hope of showing you the error of your ways about Creative.
 
Looking forward as well!

Is it okay that I'm posting my war reports in this thread? I figured this was THE Icemod thread, even if I no longer have much hope of showing you the error of your ways about Creative.

Of course keep posting war reports here. I made the new thread to make it easier for others to find start up and early game plans. You'll often be well behind the super AIs anyhow, but hopefully not so far as to be critical. I don't expect to get too detailed into war in that thread (except perhaps for the 1st game) unless a war happens very quickly.
 
War report!

Another attempt to beat that undead demonic horse, the one with the ancient and terrible name Perngvir'Vf'Birecevprq

DemAquCha,+1S,LRArt / -LG-Spy-GC
6 Charismatic replaces 14 Creative tech showering, and the remaining picks went into eco. (Compared to Cre = 10, I gained Charismatic and Rich.) Let's see how this goes...

Spawned at the south end of the map, a bit closer to the eastern corner. 2 crappy hostile planets in system.

Turn 15: Nice, Jarred and Yota offered to sign up in the first 15 turns. Yota being famous will help pay for Jarred, once I recover from half-buying Laboratory. Jarred being a diplomat will play nicely to my strengths.

Turn 30: Garred showed up, who is both famous AND diplomat AND megawealth. Wow, Charismatic is awesome.

Turn 36: I got Kimbuzzi. A bit more farming, I suppose it won't hurt... Does anyone know if having more leaders decreases the chance to get more offers?

Turn 44: Going for a fast tech gambit as usual, getting Labs, Factories, Holo, then Supercomputer. Got that on turn 44. Time to build 2 scouts, then grab Cloning (as a nonproduction build, can't afford a lot of baby factory colonies). Then I can focus on colonising.

Turn 48: Got an offer from Director... Neilkaz? Wow, haha. Never realized. And would still not have realized if I weren't typing this up. Well, I definitely want this guy on my side ;). Operations is wonderful for a techy build, since Star Bases are hard to come by. I guess time to fire Kimbuzi to make room for more competent people.

Turn 74: Researched Atmospheric Renewer. Time to start colonizin'.

Neighbourhood looks decent. Some unguarded wet planets, one Small Rich NormalG Tundra. That's 11 pop for me, not too horrid for an early game production planet. A few monsters: an Eel, two Amoebas, a Guardian... ;) nice Large Ocean with Splinter Colony under the amoeba, too bad it's Ultra Poor.

Overall, decent area, but no awesome Rich Gaias.

Turn 81: First colony ship. I can build 1 per 6 turns without pollution. Planning to colonize 4 unguarded planets, then kill the Eel and get the Radiated Rich with Gem Deposits.

Turn 91: Just saw a Bulrathi ship in a system to the west, some 15 parsecs from me. I think someone just volunteered to be my slave race!

Planning on getting Ion Drive soon, to speed up everything including population transfers. Man I love that fast tech gambit.

Turn 99 and 100: Just got Director Cassandra and Captain Diablo in consecutive turns! Man, my love for Charismatic is renewed. As much as it pains me, Director Yota has to go to free up space.

Cassandra is rather lovely. Why can't the Elerian leader look like that? Would be so much better for their diplomacy.

OK, this is new to me: Building an empty BB (at my current tech) costs 800. Building a fully equipped one, 1308. Refitting the empty one into the full costs, no, not 1308-800=508. It costs 1016, exactly twice the diff. Good to know.

Turn 120: First Contact: Sakkra, who are occupying the east-southeast area. Benefit of not having Creative: you don't get Iridium cells early and don't initiate contact too fast.

In this case this isn't so much of a benefit, as these guys are non-repulsive, and I initiated trade with them immediately. Nonaggression pact not yet signed, but I'll just wait until the treaties in place work for me and ask again.

In any case, these guys are +1F +1P +100G HG Sub. And they're behind in tech compared to me. I think this might be a good slave race too. And they have a war with Darloks. Time to sound the drums of war?

Got 4 wet colonies on unguarded planets, then my 1 BB, killed an Eel and Ameba, getting me a Rich Gold Deposits Radiated and that splinter colony.

Turn 123: Contact with Bulrathi to the west. Awesome. +2F +2P +50G HG Sub. Their tech is even worse than Sakkra's, and unlike them, defeating the Bulrathi won't bring me into contact with Darloks.

I guess the road ahead is clear.

(What is our aim, you ask? Victory, victory at any price, victory no matter how hard the road may be, for without victory, there is no slavery and Humanity doesn't get to be a master race.)

Need an outpost to get to the Bears, which is both good and bad: good because they will have trouble retaliating at me, bad because my first fleet better be good enough to capture some planet on first strike.

Turn 128: Alkari contact to the northwest. Non-Agg treaty with Sakkra, trading with the other two.

Researching Zortium and Class 1 shields before I go. Sadly, Bulrathi have Ion Cannons so not getting ECM.

Turn 132: Darlok contact. Drat, I guess it was a matter of time. At least they aren't repulsive. 4 spies built asap.

Turn 138: Full treaties with everyone except Bulrathi. Darloks keep framing me with Sakkra.

Turn 145: 4 BBs built with fully modified Nukes, Battle Pods, Augmented Engines and Battle Scanner. Thought about Heavy Armor but nah.

Also got Androgena this turn. Couldda used her when I was building this fleet...

Also, Bulrathi are currently the strongest species. This'll be interesting.

Turn 150: Last minute change of plans. Attacking the Darloks, who are actually in the very southeast corner, have 4 systems, and are a threat to my relations with everyone else (framing). +2 production makes them a so-so slave race, sadly. Quickly Researched Fusion Rifles and Anti-Grav Harness, in hope of taking their planets mostly intact. They have no +Growth, after all.

Had to use an outpost to reach them. Got a planet in the edge system, and immediately afterwards GNN told me I overworked that planet from Ultra Rich to Rich. Are Darloks controlling the game engine?!

Turn 155: I then went straight for the capital, Nazin. Lost the edge system but got the homeworld next turn. Gonna sit here for a few turns getting all the planets and equipping them with Fighters. Not daring split my fleet: Darloks have Warp Dissipator.

Turn 156: Contact with Klakons. They are twice as strong on the graphs as anyone else. Fortunately not Repulsive. I am so taking down Bulrathi after this. Need a big power base.

Does anyone know the formulas for rebellions, and how Armored and Marine Barracks factor into them?

164: Declined to fight at a system with a Star Base, Missile Base, 2 BBS and some minor ships. Warp Dissipator scares me. Went to conquer an unimportant system, came back, and found the same system without the enemy armada this time. Love the stupid AI.

Then I had the same opponents at the next system. This time I just destroyed the Star Base, retreated, came back and mopped up.

EDIT: I just forgot to mention that the Fighter Base is awesome once you get Bomber Bays. A bit earlier it killed a BB and forced the remaining fleet (including another BB) to retreat.

184: Darloks eliminated.


Possible avenues:
* Bulrathi (best slave race)
* Sakkra (closer, and easier to defeat)
* Orion (will require a bit of teching up)
* Colonize a bunch of stuff around me, as there are lots of free planets still, then focus on terraforming

In the immortal words of Hamlet:

wat do
 
Got an offer from Director... Neilkaz? Wow, haha. Never realized. And would still not have realized if I weren't typing this up.
LOL, you found him first! "The Master Tactician"
 
@ Markus

I loaded your race DemAquCha,+1S,LRArt / -LG-Spy-GC to check out the HW at the start.

To me this is a tech race. The HW needs 3 farmers so you can start with 45 rp/T (5 x 9).
Or you can start with 5 workers producing 25 pp/t which pollutes down to 17 pp/t.

In Ice CB's tech needs to be researched and they cost 250 pp. You'll almost certainly get that tech after 2 turns of research, but maybe 17 pp/t will mean that it will take too long to build the CB's up to a point where you can buy them half or more built.

Demo generates lotsa cash, so you may not wish to sell the SB, noting that it will take considerably longer to rebuild than for a production race. That being said, if I spawned in the corner and had a couple nice planets in my system, I'd likely risk selling the SB.

If you do a comparison, compare apples to apples. Don't hire any leaders as this can be different the next time you play from the same start to compare. Play until at least the point until you have colonized all your HS and have Labs and Factories on all those planets. I find it can be better to play a few turns more..ie til your first CS is built and then compare methods.

My gut tells me to research to factories, build one, and then build your CB's and while building factories on colonies in your HS, tech to labs and build them.

But you need to test this and see if this race can save a turn or two or be stronger on the same turn as other methods.

Oh, and while I think I have my normal IceX race starts down very well, I suspect I could gain a bit with more testing and analysis. ie I rate my start in my walkthrough a 95 to 97 out of 100.
 
Almost. Only factory in the housing colonies. Better spend those 8 turns producing a colonist than 5 RP labs. Those colonists will produce much more in the homeworld. It's not like in production builds, where you have to have stick sources of automatic RP whereever you can.

________________

War report continues!

Decided to consolidate, build up my colonies, colonize the remaining empty space, and capture Orion. The AIs have partly caught up with me in tech, anyway, and I didn't have the production base to replace losses in a protracted war.

Doing close to 1k research if I try now, will be more soon - I expect to reach Beam Awesomeness within a few dozen turns, though it remains to be seen just how awesome my beam ships can be when I'm not Creative.

Turn 180: Antarans attack a system with 4 planets, 2 undefended. Building Fighter Garrisons in all 4 and hoping for the awesomeness of Bombers to carry the day.

Yep, they got spanked. A Star Base soaked up damage, bombers killed. Might have gone worse if the Antarans hit a planet without a SB.

Colonized Hap III, a Rich Ocean guarded by a monster. FINALLY a proper "good" planet. Future shipyards.

I keep colonising, full-buying Factories and Cloning Plants, half-buying everything else. Cash reserves diminish but slowly. Earning +600 or so per day. As Palpatine would put it: "I love democracy." ;)

Turn 193: Overtook Klakons in the Buildings graph; I had already been ahead in Population for a while now, and the difference is growing. They have a ridiculously large fleet and a big lead in tech, but that won't last forever.

Almost done filling up empty planets. Hap III is halfway full with pop and will be full in a few turns.

Producing over 1k research per turn - beelining to Orion-worthy beam ships before Klakons beat me to it. Shifting colonists to research in noncrucial colonies upped me to 1.5k research.

Turn 198: Recruited Commodore Skaine, who is Famous. Ditching Garret then, to make room for superior Directors.

Turn 209: Final contact. Psilons. Turns out they aren't the tech leaders, but they are second, under Klakons.

They expect me to honor them with peace and brotherhood. I was going to say something sarcastic, except... well, that's kind of the plan.

Turn 217: 61/103 Galaxy vote. Hey, take it easy, friends, I still wanna kill Orion. :)

3k research per turn. Gauss Guns researched and 1-level refined. Hyper-X almost researched.

Important decision: Structural Analyser or Positronic Computer?

Traded for Optronic with Psilons and went for Structural Analyser. Will also take the extra 5 or so turns to research Interphased Drive, because for some reason I took Anti-Matter Bomb instead of Drive. That's okay though, it'll give me 21 speed, and will miniaturise Hyper-X and HEF and make up for the lack of Megafluxers.

Turn 223: Research complete. Designing ships:
Augmented Engines, Battle Pods, Battle Scanner, HEF, Hyper-X, Structural Analyzer.
21 speed, +75% beam attack, + 50% from the scanner, + crew bonus of course. Even with just +15% Regular Crew, I'd have 35 Initiative, to beat Orion's 34. Refitting 6 +50% Elite Battleships from the Darlok war, of course. And I have both Weapons and Ordnance leaders. The Guardian is going down.

The extra level of tech in Power had the same effect as Megafluxers: I can fit 26 Gauss Cannons if I don't take Structural Analyser. I'm taking it, though, and only fitting 20 guns.

Turn 228: Victory! Orion is mine.

Took all 6 BBs. I blame the crappy computer. Reloading a turn, and fast researching to Moleculartronic Cybertronic Computer (cost me 5 more turns), to see how much of a difference +50 beams makes.

Turns out it makes a huge one. 3 BBs did the job with that. Good to know. Back to the 227 savegame.

Turn 229: Comissioner Necron joins. Hap III now has a worthy Director.

Turn 241: I have twice the pop and three times the buildings of the next contender (Bulrathi somehow caught up to Klakons), and I overtook everyone in tech. Fleet of course still pathetic despite growing to 13 BBs. A few more turns for Doom Stars...

Turn 242:... except in this turn I won Galactic vote.

NOPE. Reloading and abstaining.

Will continue this later. I still wanna see how not-Creative beam ships hold up against high end AIs and Antarans. So far, aside from the lack of Megafluxers and the inability to have both the best computer and the Achillies system, I've seen very few genuinely painful choices; for the most part all this stuff can be overcome with thought and good planning.
 
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