Conspirator
Prince
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2009
- Messages
- 388
Yeah spying was annoying in Civ 4. Civ 2 had a pretty good system (embassies). Much less micro-managing.
CIV 5 Spies
- Thread starter Dariush
- Start date
Zhahz
PC Gamer
First thing to do with your spies is find one of the existing threads on the topic!
A game. A game that doesn't need an overblown espionage system that doesn't fit the scale or abstraction level of the game.
Espionage has never really been done well in Civ - it's usually too much of a micro/minigame that doesn't fit the scale. Either the espionage minigame appeals to you or it doesn't and I'd guess most players either don't like it or don't care - so, SNIP, gone.
A game. A game that doesn't need an overblown espionage system that doesn't fit the scale or abstraction level of the game.
Espionage has never really been done well in Civ - it's usually too much of a micro/minigame that doesn't fit the scale. Either the espionage minigame appeals to you or it doesn't and I'd guess most players either don't like it or don't care - so, SNIP, gone.
And you wonder why some people say Civ V is dumbed down. Heaven forbid when you play on a higher difficulity the game gets harder for you. What's next? Spearmen can't deafeat tanks? D'OH!
Kruelgor
Emperor
To be honest, we could probably list more elements historically associated with ruling a civilization which are missing than we can name which are included.
Oh well. Got to keep them grandmas and grandpas happy I guess, the casual players.
Oh well. Got to keep them grandmas and grandpas happy I guess, the casual players.
I am a bit upset that spies and no espionage is not in the game. It's another way of conquering the world. I loved playing Civ II and just using spies to go agaisnt my enemies instead of military troops.
I really hope this is not a way to just make us buy the expansion packs, or if they are not going to make expansion packs, it will be DLC.
I really hope this is not a way to just make us buy the expansion packs, or if they are not going to make expansion packs, it will be DLC.
Kruelgor
Emperor
Are you basically saying that CiV has a history of flawed design? Spies alone should never give a victory.
Anyone care to clarify me why some people said spying is not fit so well the game since IMHO spying give players interesting feature to collect opponents intelligent, gain some techs without worry about beakers, sabotage production, etc.
Micro management seems not to be much problem for me but sometime in higher difficult I must admitt that I felt a bit annoyed when my important imporvement tiles was crumbled like a cookie in hand when enemy sabotage kick in.
Micro management seems not to be much problem for me but sometime in higher difficult I must admitt that I felt a bit annoyed when my important imporvement tiles was crumbled like a cookie in hand when enemy sabotage kick in.
Is your contention that anyone who doesn't want the same features as you a "casual player"? A "grandma / grandpa"?
Is it your purpose to insult everyone who does not carry the same vision for what Civ should be?
Kruelgor
Emperor
I'm referring to something which Sid Meier stated in a video. He mentioned that the original civilization was 20 years ago and times have changed, Sid said that we now have Grandmas playing these games so we need to make a game that they can play too.
I think espionage should be out but spies in. Make spy a recon unit that other civs can't see, remove the EPs and limit what the spy can do and make it cost gold like in Civ IV vanilla. So it could run around and look at stuff and maybe a few limited spy like abilities like sabotage improvments, or mislead a unit which would use up it's move points next turn, But when you conduct a mission it consumes the spy succeed or fail, and limit the number you can have to say 3 or so.
If memory serves, there were spies that came with a modern-era (or perhaps industrial-era) tech and were insanely expensive to do anything with in Vanilla Civ 4, and without the notion of spy points (instead you paid a ton of gold). I don't think spies were completely absent, but they were very impractical to use and only arrived toward the end.
I think spies will come back with an expansion...
I think spies will come back with an expansion...
Actually they had a set of missions to perform in those days as well.
Tomice
Passionate Smart-Ass
1upt could cause a problem, too!
Spies would take up the civilian unit slot, which would be strange, or they'd need to violate 1upt rules.
Maybe we'll have espionage without actual units (in expansions, of course)?
Spies would take up the civilian unit slot, which would be strange, or they'd need to violate 1upt rules.
Maybe we'll have espionage without actual units (in expansions, of course)?
Just as some people think Workers should be abstracted (like Public Works in the Call to Power series), espionage would work best as a unit-less abstraction. Gathering information about your enemy - military forces, tech research, status of building wonders and projects - can be critically important and I don't see how this info can be obtained in vanilla Civ V. I sincerely hope espionage will be addressed in a future expansion, maybe with a choice for haters to turn it off during game setup.
If you got the great wall and great spy, the AI wasted a lot on espionage instead of science.
