Football Thread No. 9
- Thread starter holy king
- Start date
Napoli win the Coppa Italia, which is good, and I got to watch Montpellier's match! Does anybody know whether Auxerre will get points docked or something? Not a really great match from a technical point of view but it was to be expected from an already relegated team facing anotherwho'd never won the title before… and with all the trouble the home fans gave.
Josu
Emperor
Sofista
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MCdread
Couldn't she get drowned?
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Hey, at least you lost to a nice team that everyone likes, a kind of Athletic Bilbao (only different), and a club that hadn't won anything in the last 73 years (despite being possibly the 4th best supported team in the country).
And Adrien (a Sporting player loaned to Académica) was the best player on the pitch. 
mitsho
Deity
So, the season is over, time to take a look at the European Champions:
Rank
UEFA 5-year coefficent
Country Champion Club Coefficient
Euro clubindex
1 85.785 England Manchester City 63.882 4
2 82.329 Spain Real Madrid 121.837 1
3 69.436 Germany Borussia Dortmund 31.037 8
4 60.552 Italy Juventus Turin 46.996 17
5 53.678 France Montpellier 11.835 35
6 51.596 Portugal FC Porto 98.069 7
7 44.707 Russia Zenit St. Petersburg 79.066 16
8 43.883 Ukraine Shaktar Donetsk 84.026 13
9 40.129 Netherlands Ajax Amsterdam 58.103 15
10 35.050 Turkey Galatasaray Istanbul 38.615 66
11 34.166 Greece Olympiakos Piraeus 61.420 28
12 30.550 Denmark
13 27.000 Belgium RSC Anderlecht 48.480 45
14 25.824 Romania CFR Cluj 18.764 122
15 25.141 Scotland Celtic Glasgow 32.728 64
16 24.900 Switzerland FC Basel 1893 53.360 30
17 22.000 Israel Hapoel Kiryat Shmona 4.400 194
18 20.850 Czech Republic Slovan Liberec 5.570 102
19 20.700 Austria Red Bull Salzburg 29.265 94
20 18.124 Cyprus AEL Limassol 5.099 225
21 17.875 Bulgaria
22 16.124 Croatia Dinamo Zagreb 24.774 146
23 16.083 Belarus BATE Borisov 29.641 147
24 15.916 Poland Slask Wroclaw 5.483 269
25 14.499 Slovakia MSK Zilina 14.974 210
Norway
Serbia
Sweden
Some surprises there. Montpellier is astonishing given their budget, but I guess the Israeli Champion (I'm not going to try to write their name) is the "worst" team ever to win such a big trophy. Congratulations to the Golan Heights The polish champion as well seems to be an upset, as does the Czech one. Seems to be the season of upsets.
Interesting as well that only one of the really big clubs of Europe managed to win their league (Real Madrid).
Scotland btw. is up for a disaster. Next year they will fall back to 26th place and not even rank on this list. (Serbia is astonishingly bad as well).
So, now that one can predict the qualification games of the summer, what team do you want to be drawn against? (Champions League, Europa League)
PS: No, I'm not gonna list the Cup Winners
1 85.785 England Manchester City 63.882 4
2 82.329 Spain Real Madrid 121.837 1
3 69.436 Germany Borussia Dortmund 31.037 8
4 60.552 Italy Juventus Turin 46.996 17
5 53.678 France Montpellier 11.835 35
6 51.596 Portugal FC Porto 98.069 7
7 44.707 Russia Zenit St. Petersburg 79.066 16
8 43.883 Ukraine Shaktar Donetsk 84.026 13
9 40.129 Netherlands Ajax Amsterdam 58.103 15
10 35.050 Turkey Galatasaray Istanbul 38.615 66
11 34.166 Greece Olympiakos Piraeus 61.420 28
12 30.550 Denmark
13 27.000 Belgium RSC Anderlecht 48.480 45
14 25.824 Romania CFR Cluj 18.764 122
15 25.141 Scotland Celtic Glasgow 32.728 64
16 24.900 Switzerland FC Basel 1893 53.360 30
17 22.000 Israel Hapoel Kiryat Shmona 4.400 194
18 20.850 Czech Republic Slovan Liberec 5.570 102
19 20.700 Austria Red Bull Salzburg 29.265 94
20 18.124 Cyprus AEL Limassol 5.099 225
21 17.875 Bulgaria
22 16.124 Croatia Dinamo Zagreb 24.774 146
23 16.083 Belarus BATE Borisov 29.641 147
24 15.916 Poland Slask Wroclaw 5.483 269
25 14.499 Slovakia MSK Zilina 14.974 210
Norway
Serbia
Sweden
Some surprises there. Montpellier is astonishing given their budget, but I guess the Israeli Champion (I'm not going to try to write their name) is the "worst" team ever to win such a big trophy. Congratulations to the Golan Heights
The polish champion as well seems to be an upset, as does the Czech one. Seems to be the season of upsets.Interesting as well that only one of the really big clubs of Europe managed to win their league (Real Madrid).
Scotland btw. is up for a disaster. Next year they will fall back to 26th place and not even rank on this list. (Serbia is astonishingly bad as well).
So, now that one can predict the qualification games of the summer, what team do you want to be drawn against? (Champions League, Europa League)
PS: No, I'm not gonna list the Cup Winners
Pangur Bán
Deconstructed
I've been pointing this out to people for about three years. All the journalists will only realise sometime in autumn. It'll be even worse btw, because Rangers cannot play in Europe, and Scotland's other Champions League representative will thus be Motherwell. We'll have five teams, four of them very weak, cast straight into very competitive rounds and will have to divide a very low score by five. The upshot is that most of the disaster year scores will drop off in four years time and will be replaced suddenly by very high ones, and we could shoot up to five or six if we get some luck (the way Romania recently did), assuming Rangers and Celtic can get the kind of players they had in the last decade.
mitsho
Deity
Well, it's the cycle of the 5-year-ranking.
Few teams doing good -> rise up in ranks = more teams which aren't quite as good = high divisor -> fall in ranks again -> only few teams in Europe = low divisor -> rise up in ranks again.
It's the same for us as well. FC Basel has been collecting practically all the points for Switzerland the last years (Thun helped as well for their size, Sion has its president to blame). This basically means that you need to win the league as the first place will always be good enough.
But good luck to Scotland, even if we are direct competitors
Few teams doing good -> rise up in ranks = more teams which aren't quite as good = high divisor -> fall in ranks again -> only few teams in Europe = low divisor -> rise up in ranks again.
It's the same for us as well. FC Basel has been collecting practically all the points for Switzerland the last years (Thun helped as well for their size, Sion has its president to blame). This basically means that you need to win the league as the first place will always be good enough
.But good luck to Scotland, even if we are direct competitors
Pangur Bán
Deconstructed
Total points (normal rounds, 1 for a draw, two for a win, plus certain bonuses) is divided by number of teams to produce overall score. Thus winning fair play league tables can be bad for small countries.
Pangur Bán
Deconstructed
Well, it's the cycle of the 5-year-ranking.
Few teams doing good -> rise up in ranks = more teams which aren't quite as good = high divisor -> fall in ranks again -> only few teams in Europe = low divisor -> rise up in ranks again.
It's the same for us as well. FC Basel has been collecting practically all the points for Switzerland the last years (Thun helped as well for their size, Sion has its president to blame). This basically means that you need to win the league as the first place will always be good enough
But good luck to Scotland, even if we are direct competitors
I would say that now, as opposed to five years ago, the Swiss league is much stronger than the Scottish league. Most of our second-tier teams are emptied each season by mediocre but rich lower league English clubs, making them very weak.
holy king
Deity
serbia never did all that well in the first place, did it?
holy king
Deity
How? I'm not quite sure as I don't know how the Fair Play coefficient is calculated, but I do know that some lowly teams get into European places, sometimes even relegated teams.Pangur Bán;11515709 said:
Ths is the problem with having such powerful neighbours. Argentina used to do the same to Bolivia and Paraguay, these days everything in Argentina is siphoned off by teams from the top two divisions of Singapore, Ukraine, etc. Devaluation+inflation hit the Argentine clubs hard.Pangur Bán;11515716 said:
No, their national side does well when they had Antić who is something of a wizard.
Pangur Bán
Deconstructed
Total score gets divided by a larger number, which is especially damaging to smaller countries because the quality drops significantly going away from teams at very top. Generally the team qualifying this way is not very good / was not good enough to qualify otherwise.
Look at 1999, when Scotland should have had three teams but had four because Kilmarnock qualified through fair play (#13):
http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method2/ccoef2000.html
Without fairplay, Scotland would have finished with 19.5 / 3 (=6.5 points), but instead had 20.5 / 4 (=5.125 points)
As you can see,
http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method3/crank2004.html
That lost 1.375 points cost the Scots a second champions league place in later years.
Now for Scotland this only happened once, but some countries (like Norway) have been devastated over the years by it.
holy king
Deity
well, that doesnt really influence their uefa co-efficient.
mitsho
Deity
Yes, I mistook it as Serbia is good as a national team, but not as individual clubs... Just like Germany on a higher level, and the opposite of England
There's also a distinction in that qualifcation games count whole for the national coefficient, but only half for the club coefficient. This means that going through all the stages like FC Basel has to do this year, is good for the coefficient of the country, but practically does nothing for the club but nuisances (voyages into dark dark eastern europe two weeks before the league starts, empty stadiums at home games, etc. ..)
hrmpf... UEFA....
@Thakisis, Isn't the answer to that to have a "education club" where you concentrate on your young players. It works if it works, but otherwise
There's also a distinction in that qualifcation games count whole for the national coefficient, but only half for the club coefficient. This means that going through all the stages like FC Basel has to do this year, is good for the coefficient of the country, but practically does nothing for the club but nuisances (voyages into dark dark eastern europe two weeks before the league starts, empty stadiums at home games, etc. ..)
hrmpf... UEFA....
@Thakisis, Isn't the answer to that to have a "education club" where you concentrate on your young players. It works if it works, but otherwise
mitsho
Deity
really? Sorry, I was going by Bert's site and overlooked the CL1-2 in front of Kobenhavn...
I'll change it quickly
I'll change it quickly
MCdread
Couldn't she get drowned?
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2001
- Messages
- 5,348
So you don't think Juventus is a big club (despite their recent problems)? Or, factoring the respective leagues, Porto, Ajax or Celtic?
Yeah, the fact the points are divided by the number of teams causes some massive yo-yoing. I remember Romania having a spectacular rise when their points were divided by 3 teams, only to be followed by an equally spectacular fall when they were divided by 6 (iirc).
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