[Religion and Revolution]: Feedback and Questions

Questions to our new partners:

So ok guys, you had a few days to take a look at what we did.

• Do you generally like our mod and its atmosphere ?
• Do you start to understand our features ?
• Is the mod too big or too complicated ?
• Should we go on implementing more features ?
• Does it play / feel very different to what you are used to ?
• Are there features you specifically like or dislike ?
• Are there specific aspects that need improvement before we release ?

Don't worry, you can be honest.

I had a few days to try out R&R and I really like it.

The main problem that I'm having is the issue of the game crashing after several turns I get the windows message that it had encountered and error and closes.
It seems that I will have to upgrade to Windows 7 now.

Answering your questions:
1. I love the mod and the atmosphere. Especially the music. The intro music makes me feel like I'm a Sith Lord.
2. I'm in the process of understanding the features but there are lots of them. Especially the huge amount of goods.
3. I wouldn't say that the mod is too big. To me right now I'm kind of processing between cocoa, cocoaberries, hemp etc.
4. You should implement more features. I'm waiting for the Monasteries.
5. It feels a little different but the principle in the game is the same. Now you have tons of new options and resources and goods that you would need to try out several games.
6. I LOVE plastered roads, Dyed Cloth, Domestic Markets, Bargaining with Natives and Natives Raids. I think that the events of Native Slaves, African Slaves and Prisons Crowded, do give the game more feeling than before. More interaction between the King and the Colonies. Unfortunately because of the Crashes that I get I haven't been able to advance that much.
7. I would need more time to see if there is anything that I don't like. I would need to see how the education system works. I do rely a lot on training my own specialists.

There already were several reports of problems with XP and old computers.
(On newer OS and newer computers feedback was pretty good so far.)

Maybe also you had not cleaned your cashes properly.

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I'm still having the same problem. The game crashes a lot. I cannot play say 20 turns in a row.
The thing is that I haven't had this problem with others mods.

Pallando said:

I'm still having the same problem. The game crashes a lot. I cannot play say 20 turns in a row.

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As I said, we had reports from other users with old OS and old computers, too.

There are 2 things that have helped so far.

1. Clean your caches.


2. Deactivate Virus-Scanner while playing our mod.

Pallando said:

The thing is that I haven't had this problem with others mods.

Click to expand...

Some words to that:

In filestorage this mod is more than twice as big as TAC and 5 times as big as DoaNE for example.
(Lots of graphics, music, ...)

No other CivCol-Mod ever had a DLL that was as heavily customized as our.
(An enormous amount of modified and aditional logic.)

It is obvious, that this super-size mod does not behave like other mods.

Also in the Release we will probably have an fpk (archive for graphics) which hopefully increases performance.

If the mod plays well with vista or windows 7 then I guess I would have to upgrade. I have to do it eventually, now I just have a good excuse now.

Pallando said:

If the mod plays well with vista or windows 7 then I guess I would have to upgrade. I have to do it eventually, now I just have a good excuse now.

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Usually newer OS come with newer computers.
(I don't know exactly which aspect is more important.)

The only we have figured out:

Newer OS on newer compters --> everything runs well
Older OS on older computers --> problems occur quite often

I have noticed several things yesterday.

I had the bishop event happened to me but I didn't have enough gold. It was like 2500 and I had like 1820. Is that supposed to happen like that?

There have been several instances when the King has offered me african slaves and I had the gold to buy them, but I only had the option of saying I can't afford them.

Then I had a colony which was building a market, it produces cloth and colored cloth but for some reason I had 132 colored cloth and -132 cloth, and the market said that it needed 132 cloth to finish production.
What I do in such cases is to take out the people in the weaver and dyer house wait a turn and then buy the building in this case the market. This is the second time that this has happened to me in 2 different games.

Is there a way to increase the appearances of Jesuit Missionaries in the game? I play as the French and they are golden.
Is there a way to increase the appearance of Seasoned Scouts early in the game? Why can't they be purchased?

I had the bishop event happened to me but I didn't have enough gold. It was like 2500 and I had like 1820. Is that supposed to happen like that?

Yes it is, the King will occasionally offer you african slaves, gerat noblemen, bishops, rangers and others - but you have to have enough gold or you can't say yes.

Then I had a colony which was building a market, it produces cloth and colored cloth but for some reason I had 132 colored cloth and -132 cloth, and the market said that it needed 132 cloth to finish production.

This can also happen with Indigo. For some reason when you are producing +4 cloth but -6 is being consumed, it does not stop at Zero. This can cause you to be unable to purchase village halls for example, which require "having at least 0 indigo!"


What I do in such cases is to take out the people in the weaver and dyer house wait a turn and then buy the building in this case the market. This is the second time that this has happened to me in 2 different games.

Yeah, re-ordering your people can help but don't wait untiil you have -140 Indigo like i did

Pallando said:

I had the bishop event happened to me but I didn't have enough gold. It was like 2500 and I had like 1820. Is that supposed to happen like that?

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Yes, that is supposed to happen, too.

Pallando said:

There have been several instances when the King has offered me african slaves and I had the gold to buy them, but I only had the option of saying I can't afford them.

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The event / including the answer choices are calculated the round before.
So if you did not have enough at the end of the previous round, you will not be able to buy.
(No matter if you eventually acquired the money by selling in Europe at the beginning of the current round.)

There currently is no technical solution for this.

Pallando said:

Then I had a colony which was building a market, it produces cloth and colored cloth but for some reason I had 132 colored cloth and -132 cloth, and the market said that it needed 132 cloth to finish production.
What I do in such cases is to take out the people in the weaver and dyer house wait a turn and then buy the building in this case the market. This is the second time that this has happened to me in 2 different games.

Click to expand...

This should be fixed since saturday.
(Did you get the current version ?)

@thadian:
You did not answer to the request for testing the fix ?

Pallando said:

Is there a way to increase the appearances of Jesuit Missionaries in the game?

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No, sorry.

Pallando said:

Is there a way to increase the appearance of Seasoned Scouts early in the game? Why can't they be purchased?

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Actually I think it is better considering balancing to get Seasoned Souts by experience or training at Natives.
(Everything else would be too easy ...)

First, big thanks in accepting me. The mod appears to be AWESOME.

Starting locations for AIs and player are still off (sometime very grouped). I know this is not the priority, but I wanted to point it nonetheless.

Congrats from having the mountains impassable, it adds strategy. I guess some promotions will allow to move into them (mountaineers), and perhaps some natives can do that too.

When it comes to identifying the buildings, I believe it would be better, ergonomy wise, to add the icon of the merchandise(s) produced onto their own icon... This is almost impossible now to guess what the icon is.

I think we really need a list of features, done and planned I know you added some in the colonopedia (like mountains, smuggler) but at the very least, take 30 mn to write down the 20 biggest features you can think about, just to put us on the track... 3 lines for each, even 2 is enough...

War and rebel sentiment: I believe that it would be nastier (and more fun!) if you had no say when the King declares war to another country, if your rebel sentiment is under 50%. You are a colony of his majesty, your colony IS part of the war, period.

The dialogs in Indians village is the same as TAC, do you plan to propose more options (buying 1 square of land, buying mercenaries)

When will the wild beast will appear (bears, jaguars, etc.). Do you plan (please!!) to add as an option, the possibility to add some legendary beasts too (like a sacred serpent, a feathered couatl, an Indian spirit)... If this is optional, no people can complain (and it only means adding an handful of creatures for you.

Given the number of yields, perhaps you can put in the tooltip of raw yields what they can do? As for muskets when it is said that they are used for soldiers, you could also help player here...

Expert scouts: I believe they are too good... They never can suffer from a single bad thing, so from past experience, I know that a very profitable strategy is to form up expert scouts, and they will net you hundreds of gold, treasures, etc. My advice would be to have at least one event in their list that can wound or kill them...
Also, if you can manage to have more varied events for scouts, that would be nice. Have you played Fall from Heaven (Civ 4 mod) and their dungeons?

I had an event where the King ask me to declare war against England. I accepted and requested troops. He gave me a Man Of War, a hessian and an artillery. That was AWESOME!!!

Just bought a smuggling ship. En route to Europe.

Vorpal+5 said:

The mod appears to be AWESOME.

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Glad you like it.

Vorpal+5 said:

Starting locations for AIs and player are still off (sometime very grouped). I know this is not the priority, but I wanted to point it nonetheless.

Click to expand...

This really depends on the "Sail-To-Europe"-plots of the map.
Never saw problems here if those were distributed well.

Vorpal+5 said:

Congrats from having the mountains impassable, it adds strategy. I guess some promotions will allow to move into them (mountaineers), and perhaps some natives can do that too.

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There is a Colopedia entry about that.
(Also explained in our thread [Religion and Revolution]: Tips and Tricks.)

Vorpal+5 said:

When it comes to identifying the buildings, I believe it would be better, ergonomy wise, to add the icon of the merchandise(s) produced onto their own icon... This is almost impossible now to guess what the icon is.

Click to expand...

It looks a lot prettier with the Combi-Icons.
It is just getting a little used to it.

Vorpal+5 said:

I think we really need a list of features, done and planned I know you added some in the colonopedia (like mountains, smuggler) but at the very least, take 30 mn to write down the 20 biggest features you can think about, just to put us on the track... 3 lines for each, even 2 is enough...

Click to expand...

We have the Overview, Colopedia and Tips and Tricks (which is supposed to grow over time).
Currently nobody has time for anything else, sorry.

Vorpal+5 said:

War and rebel sentiment: I believe that it would be nastier (and more fun!) if you had no say when the King declares war to another country, if your rebel sentiment is under 50%. You are a colony of his majesty, your colony IS part of the war, period.

Click to expand...

Sorry, I really don't like to force things like declaring war upon players.

Vorpal+5 said:

The dialogs in Indians village is the same as TAC, do you plan to propose more options (buying 1 square of land, buying mercenaries)

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There is currently nothing planned considering enhancement of (main) Diplomacy Dialog with Natives.

You can already buy mercenaries with the dll-diplo-event.
There will probably also come more dll-diplo-events with Natives in later Releases.

Vorpal+5 said:

When will the wild beast will appear (bears, jaguars, etc.).

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Maybe with Release 1, if Androrc finds the time.
(Otherwise with Release 2.)

Vorpal+5 said:

Do you plan (please!!) to add as an option, the possibility to add some legendary beasts too (like a sacred serpent, a feathered couatl, an Indian spirit)... If this is optional, no people can complain (and it only means adding an handful of creatures for you.

Click to expand...

Sorry, this will not happen in the main mod.
But everybody is free to add his own features with modmods.

Vorpal+5 said:

Given the number of yields, perhaps you can put in the tooltip of raw yields what they can do? As for muskets when it is said that they are used for soldiers, you could also help player here...

Click to expand...

Colopedia.
Too many tool tips look ugly and only very few yields are really strategic.

Vorpal+5 said:

Expert scouts: I believe they are too good... They never can suffer from a single bad thing, so from past experience, I know that a very profitable strategy is to form up expert scouts, and they will net you hundreds of gold, treasures, etc. My advice would be to have at least one event in their list that can wound or kill them...
Also, if you can manage to have more varied events for scouts, that would be nice.

Click to expand...

One of our planned features for later releases is to have much more variation with goody huts.

But currently our main focus is to prepare and finally release our Release 1.

ok, thanks for the answers. I see you are difficult to convince of anything that is not your own design though

If I get it right, the extra needs (like luxury furnitures) are there so that we can sell them to the domestic market, right? This is not The Settlers where you must have x or y merchandise in order to have a specific citizen, right? (I prefer the way you do it, we are playing Colonization, not The Settlers)

Vorpal+5 said:

I see you are difficult to convince of anything that is not your own design though

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See, it is simply not possible to fulfill everybodies personal wishes.
(That is why people make mods and modmods for themselves.)

We as a team have agreed, that we will not implement features if only one team member really does not like the idea.
(So one "veto" is enough to kill a feature for the main mod.)

Also we have agreed, that we will try to stay generally authentic and historically correct.
So there will never be fantasy or mythical stuff in the main mod.

Also this mod is not about stuffing it with features without end.
It is about enhancing gameplay in a very considered way.

Criterias for a feature to make it into our mod are pretty high and most of the features we have added had been
discussed or planned between our modders years before they finally got implemented in this mod.
(Domestic Markets is a good example for that.)

So yes, I am hard to convince.

But basically it is not me alone you would need to convince.
You simply need to find at least one team member that really likes your idea and is able to implement it.
This team member would then need to convince the others.
(Real decisions in this mod are made by the team and the team only.)

Vorpal+5 said:

If I get it right, the extra needs (like luxury furnitures) are there so that we can sell them to the domestic market, right?

Click to expand...

Basically the huge amount of production lines allows a very high number of very highly specialiced citites.
This again allows a very interesting industry.

Some of the goods were really primarily designed for Domestic Markets.
(Giving the possibilities to have different demands for different social classes.)

Prices for Domestic Markets strongly depends on the availability of the good in a city.
(Each city has different prices.)

Luxury Goods from Europe is an exception.
You cannot produce it yourself and it will always sell at higher prices in the New World, than the buying price in Europe.

Trade Goods are still meant to be bought in Europe and sold for good profit to the Natives.

And no, this has nothing to do with goods system of "Settlers".

Hi,

Well read, thanks for the input.

I guess that this feature has already been discussed between yourselves, so I'll just ask and not try to convince you: do you plan to implement forts/stockades outside of towns, so to claim a resource or establish a secure perimeter, or is this discarded too?

I have no problem adding things myself for a (still very theoretical modmod), I'll need a bit of help though, to know how to do things.

Vorpal+5 said:

... do you plan to implement forts/stockades outside of towns, so to claim a resource or establish a secure perimeter, or is this discarded too?

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Discussed (several times) and discarded.

Vorpal+5 said:

I have no problem adding things myself ...

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Hi, I was just wondering several things.

Are Indunted Servants intended to be able to be trained by the Natives? I think that the answer is yes.

How might I be able to modify the Education System. Where are the prices fixed for the specialists and how might one be able to change the turns it takes to graduate from school, college, university, etc.
Also, how might one be able to turn a unit that is not to be trained, like the Hessian. The king ordered me to declare war against the English and I have an artillery, Hessian and Man of War. What do I need to change in order to have the Hessian be able to work in a city and then to be able to train.

I'm having lots of fun with the mod, but I have to tell you that playing in Revolutionary is very difficult.

How can someone raise the attitude of the natives. I know that missionaries are good, but there is no way to obtain them in Europe if they are not in the docks. Is there a strategy that I should know.

Pallando said:

Are Indunted Servants intended to be able to be trained by the Natives? I think that the answer is yes.

Click to expand...

Indentured Servants can be trained at Natives, I just tested.
(Criminals, African Slaves and Native Slaves can't.)

Pallando said:

How might I be able to modify the Education System.

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GlobalDefinesAlt.xml and CIV4UnitInfos.xml
(Simply search for "teach" or "education", it is pretty easy to figure out by comparing the values of the units. )

Sorry, but I simply don't have the time to give tutorials or classes for modding beginners.
(I can only give you pointers, you will need to figure out the rest on your own.)

Pallando said:

Also, how might one be able to turn a unit that is not to be trained, like the Hessian.

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Do that on your own risk.
Basically you would need to modify the Hessian according to the Veteran.

Pallando said:

I'm having lots of fun with the mod, ...

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Great.

Pallando said:

... but I have to tell you that playing in Revolutionary is very difficult.

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What exactly is difficult ?



But generally, Revolutionary is supposed to be difficult.

Pallando said:

How can someone raise the attitude of the natives.

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Basically the same as in TAC.
(Good diplomacy, trade, having strong military, careful expansion ...)

Pallando said:

I know that missionaries are good, but there is no way to obtain them in Europe if they are not in the docks.

Click to expand...

Jesuit Missionaries and Evangelists are supposed to be rare.
It would also be pretty strange considering atmosphere if you could simply buy them.

Indentured Servants can be trained at Natives, I just tested.
(Criminals, African Slaves and Native Slaves can't.)

Click to expand...

So basically, there is no difference between a servant and a free colonist. Yay.

GlobalDefinesAlt.xml and CIV4UnitInfos.xml
(Simply search for "teach" or "education", it is pretty easy to figure out by comparing the values of the units.

Click to expand...

Thanks.

Sorry, but I simply don't have the time to give tutorials or classes for modding beginners.
(I can only give you pointers, you will need to figure out the rest on your own.)

Click to expand...

Thanks. I guess that my english is bad though. I don't recall asking for tutorials of modding classes in my last question. Pointers will suffice.

Do that on your own risk.
Basically you would need to modify the Hessian according to the Veteran.

Click to expand...

Gracias.

But generally, Revolutionary is supposed to be difficult.

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I find that the AI, expands and get experts and military units quite fast. For example, I was like in turn 15-20 and I had managed to buy a Veteran Soldier, and the Danish had already their Cuirrasier, Canon and Canon Garrison. I had to sell my muskets and horses to get money pronto, but they didn't. They settled just north of my location and had the same resources as I did.

Natives are just fine. Using the French with the Jesuit Missionary, they are GOLDEN.

Jesuit Missionaries and Evangelists are supposed to be rare.
It would also be pretty strange considering atmosphere if you could simply buy them.

Click to expand...

I guess that is true. I just didn't know how powerful they truly were.

Can anyone give me some pointers on how to be able to add a unit in the Europe screen to buy?
I want to add the Hessian to be able to purchase them in Europe.