Team 2 Starting Position

Wait, we have a THIRD desert hill?

DMOC said:

Wait, we have a THIRD desert hill?

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Nope, that was a mistake on Toch's part.

Toch, the hill 2 East of our settler should be a plains one, not a desert one.

Fixed



Srry for that really bad quality picture

If any body want to try few turns here is Save.

Thanks Toch this was interesting. I made the test game (first 54 rounds) using Tochs save (after changing the speed from epic to normal) and followed closely ideas of DMOC and Lord Parkin. More detailed description is below. The beginning seems quite good. However I think I would prioritize Pottery over Bronze working assuming peaceful early game and/or that we've horses somewhere. After we got cottage/cottages ready researhing Mining and Bronze working would be very fast.


Turn 1: Build Warrior for 6 turns, working first forest then FP for 1 turn. Research Fishing
Turn 6: Fishing ready Start AH. Change build to WB and work plains hill forest
Turn 14: WB ready. Work crab.
Turn 16: Animal Husbandry ready. Warrior ready start another one
Turn 17: pop 2. Change production to Worker. Work FP and crabs.
Turn 22: Mining ready next BW
Turn 27: Worker ready continue Warrior
Turn 31: Sheeps ready. Change work to sheeps and crabs
Turn 32: pop 3. Work FP. BW is next round ready so I transfer Worker to grass forested hill in the river.
Turn 33 BW ready start wheel. Start to build mines (hammers will go to next build settler)
Turn 35 Warrior ready Start another Warrior
Turn 36 pop 4. Change prod to Settler, work 2*FP, sheep and crab.
Turn 39 Wheel ready start pottery. Mine ready and hammers go to settler. Worker will travel to chop the grassland forest near river. Replacing one FP with mine.
Turn 43 Forest chopped. Worker moves to FP to start cottage.
Turn 44 Pottery ready starting mystisicm, Settler ready. I put the hammer overflow to Worker and continue Warrior that was started earlier. Change work from mine to FP so that pop raise and warrior occurs at the same time.
Turn 49 pop 5. Mystisicm ready start Meditation. Warrior ready. Continue worker (overflow made it half ready). First cottage ready. Worker goes to make another cottage to other FP.
Turn 51 Another worker ready goes to cottage grass close the river. prod to Warrior.
Turn 54 Meditation ready start Priesthood. Warrior ready. Two more cottages ready

Here is the save after this (BC 1840)
View attachment SLT2_1840_1.CivBeyondSwordSave

Here is picture about the end situation:

I agree with warrior first.

I agree we research fishing

I agree we move scout south.

Move scout 1SW1W.

Well it looks like this start's been gotten down to a science by now, nothing left to add really. The general warrior-fishing boat-worker strategy seems sound. Hope we can get those floodplains cottaged up before too long.

Edit: Actually I would move the scout 1NE. There's no way to see anything interesting to the west in a single move, but maybe there will be a resource worth moving the settler 1E for. (which wouldn't lose any good visible tiles)

Of course this is just a sisiutil approach to planning, once the scout is moved the player will probably have to finish his turn so no extra discussion. Just make sure nothing good is hidden there.

Any idea who will be playing the first turns? It won't be me since pitboss never cooperates with me.

Nice job plako. In the actual game the warriors produced will likely be outside of our capital and in the region of where our next cities are.

plako said:

Thanks Toch this was interesting. I made the test game (first 54 rounds) using Tochs save (after changing the speed from epic to normal) and followed closely ideas of DMOC and Lord Parkin. More detailed description is below. The beginning seems quite good. However I think I would prioritize Pottery over Bronze working assuming peaceful early game and/or that we've horses somewhere. After we got cottage/cottages ready researhing Mining and Bronze working would be very fast.

Click to expand...

Interesting. On the other hand though, if we delay Bronze Working for Pottery then we won't be able to chop forests for ages, nor build mines on our best hills. We will research a bit faster that way around though (with the earlier cottages).

Joshua368 said:

Edit: Actually I would move the scout 1NE. There's no way to see anything interesting to the west in a single move, but maybe there will be a resource worth moving the settler 1E for. (which wouldn't lose any good visible tiles)

Click to expand...

Actually, now that I think about it, that makes sense. We'll almost certainly want to settle on the river and on the coast, so either in the starting location or 1E of the starting location. Sure, moving 1NE is a waste of half a move for the Scout, but that's a very minor issue (especially with no huts). On the flipside, there's a remote possibility that there might be a resource on one of the 3 eastern tiles that would be in the BFC if we settled 1E. Probably unlikely on the two forest tiles, but there's a very slim possibility of something interesting on the other tile (a plains-hill?).

So I'm all in favour of moving the Scout 1NE now. Very unlikely that we'll find any resources, but if we do, it may well be worth moving our starting location 1E. (Of course, there may be resources on one of the forests to the west which we can't see, so we'd have to have very good reason to shift the settler - another Sheep, for instance.)

DMOC said:

Any idea who will be playing the first turns? It won't be me since pitboss never cooperates with me.

Click to expand...

It'll probably be either myself or Joshua368. I've played a heap of pitboss games before, so I know I'll have no problems playing - it's just that I'm away for the next couple of days (until Monday afternoon, GMT+13). If the game starts after that time though, I'll definitely be available to get us started.

Host is probably found so it might be that we'll get going quite soon. I'll try the demosystem that DaveSchack has created and if I get it working I could also be backup turn player.

I made another test now using pottery approach. Both approaches have their merits, but in my opinion pottery first is overall better.

BW first is ahead in these:
* Settler 2 turns earlier (chop + mine helped)
* 2nd worker 3 turns earlier => One more improved tile i.e. cottage in the grassland.
* 4th warrior 1 turn earlier
* BW 10 turns earlier

Pottery first is ahead in these:
* Research 3 turns ahead
* 2 Hamlets instead of 3 cottages (i.e. 2 more commerce for 5 size city)
* Pottery 15 turns earlier

Here are the main points starting from turn 16, when AH was ready and now I started wheel:
23: Wheel ready, -> Pottery
27: Worker ready.
29: Pottery ready -> mining
31: Sheeps online
32: pop 3
34: Mining ready -> BW
35: Warrior ready Starting warrior for 1 round
36: 1st cottage ready, pop 4, production to settler
41: 2nd cottage ready
43: BW ready -> Mystisicm
46: Settler ready, continue warrior
47: Mystisicm -> Meditation
50: Grass hill near river mined. chop goes to Worker
51: Warrior ready, Meditation -> Priesthood
54: Worker ready grassland close to river chopped Warrior would be ready with the overflow. Priesthood ready next turn.

Here is the save:
View attachment SLT2_1840_2.CivBeyondSwordSave

and screencap:

I was able to connect to pitboss demosystem (daveshack.dyndns.org:2057). Didn't do anything but watch, but I'm assuming it works fine for me.

So, Pottery first then? I have to admit, the faster early research is enticing...

plako said:

I was able to connect to pitboss demosystem (daveshack.dyndns.org:2057). Didn't do anything but watch, but I'm assuming it works fine for me.

Click to expand...

That's good. I'll check it myself in 2 days when I get back (I'm away this weekend).

I prefer to wait and see the actual first save.

Lord Parkin said:

So, Pottery first then? I have to admit, the faster early research is enticing...

Click to expand...

I think that this being (possibly) the first big decision (pottery or mining) it should go to the vote in its own thread. It seems to be the first real decision.

I've also been able to connect to the test game just fine.

How exactly will the early turns go, decision-making wise? How fast will it go between turns, and how do we decide to come back here and vote on something? Do we just preplan everything beforehand like we are here, have the player follow direct orders, and stop once that runs out or a major upset/discovery occurs? And are things reported back with screenshots or can people check out the save? Obviously new to the whole pitboss/democracy thing here.

Also by the way I have no problem going for pottery before bronze working, with financial and floodplains early cottages are very enticing.

Hercules90 said:

I prefer to wait and see the actual first save.

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First off, there won't be a "first save", because we're playing this as an online game.

Secondly, why wait? We already know exactly what (most of) our starting position looks like, so it makes no sense not to plan ahead.

NeverSurrender said:

I think that this being (possibly) the first big decision (pottery or mining) it should go to the vote in its own thread. It seems to be the first real decision.

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Hmm, perhaps. I'd be inclined not to have a vote on it though, but rather to have people post their own opinions and reasons and to tally up the opinions. That's simply because a lot of the people who would vote may not have read all of the previous discussions. The decision on whether we go for Pottery or Bronze Working first is a relatively important one, so I'd much prefer to see people giving reasoned arguments for their choice than just ticking a box without any explanation.

As for me, I'm inclined to vote for Pottery first, because I think that the earlier we can get our economy up and running, the better. Delaying a bit of production for a lot more commerce (and a head-start on the way to hamlets, villages and towns) sounds like a very good idea to me.

Joshua368 said:

How exactly will the early turns go, decision-making wise? How fast will it go between turns, and how do we decide to come back here and vote on something?

Click to expand...

From past experience, once we've settled our capital and got the first few turns of builds/research sorted out, there won't be a whole lot to discuss each turn. We will have the movement of our exploring Scouts and Warriors to discuss most turns, though, so we'll always have something to do - however minor.

I'd expect with 5 teams in a sequential turn pitboss that (in the early game) most turns will roll around on average every 2 days, perhaps with a range from 1-3 days. The very first turn might take a bit longer, but after that we should settle into a fairly regular rhythm.

Joshua368 said:

Do we just preplan everything beforehand like we are here, have the player follow direct orders, and stop once that runs out or a major upset/discovery occurs? And are things reported back with screenshots or can people check out the save? Obviously new to the whole pitboss/democracy thing here.

Click to expand...

Reports and screenshots are always interesting, so I think it'd be worth posting them every turn. Besides, it'll be good for the team. If we don't bother with regular reports and screenshots, then those who aren't logging into the game (or can't log in) will quickly lose interest.

man, I missed out on the initial starting discussion. Visited my grandparents, I had civ, but not internet.

Discussion has quieted down so here I assume that our 1st turn will be:
* Move scout to NE, if no resources settle in place. If resources settler could be moved to 1E. Should we've discussion if something comes up before moving?
* Start Producing warrior using Grass-Forest
* Research Fishing

I dont think we'd a need a discussion mid turn, assuming we have a competent turn player. Lord Parkin is the primary one right? A mid turn discussion would cause the game to move slower (not a big deal) but if something happens we could lose the turn and start a full (20?) years behind everybody else.
About moving the settler, I'd say we'd need to look at the new city's specialization potential, as our current seems like a jack-of-all trades to me. (Also don't base it totally on mid-game comparisons, an early lead counts!)