SGOTM 15 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

I went in and made the peace deal.
He didn't want to give any more than his initial offer. So we have Aesthetics + Sailing + Archery.
Spoiler :
Turn 126, 275 AD: You have made peace with Tokugawa!
Turn 126, 275 AD: You have discovered Aesthetics!
Turn 126, 275 AD: You have discovered Sailing!
Turn 126, 275 AD: You have discovered Archery!

Oz - make sure you download the latest save!
 
Units?? With us very likely to at war with Lizgawa sometime in the near future. I would like to see a couple of archers/spears (best defence we can muster against knights/xbows) in Kyoto. Also I think first build in Kyoto should be a wall. Assuming Liz comes that way.

Now we have sailing a galley/settler will be needed to settle the island. Shame we can't get both food resources with one city. If we only have one city I'd favour the sheep as it will be a stronger production site.

I didn't delete any military during my war turnset but think we should at least delete a couple of our spare warriors.

Well done on the techs AJ. Didn't think we'd get anything better but didn't want to play around and end up with something we didn't want.
 
Thanks aj!

Been busy at work the last few days.

Oz is UP NOW!
 
Thoughts for Oz's PPP

I think we switch to Caste System + Organised Religion immediately. Only infrastructure that would dearly like to whip is a granary in Osaka, but it doesn't have enough population to do it yet anyway. Our core Indian cities are mostly mature enough that working tiles is simply more efficient than whipping away population. New Japanese cities should run artist specialists for a turn or two once out of revolt.

City Builds:

In all cases, if a city is already part building something, assume it will finish it.

Delhi: 1x spear for the garrison in Kyoto. Then get started on Parthenon. Keep working cottages/farms in preference to mines however.

Bombay: Build 1x spear + 1x archer for Kyoto. Then get started on Status of Zeus.

Vijay: Build Settler for western island. Then continue with temple/monastery/library/missionaries.

Patal: Build a galley+archer to ferry/defend settler to western island. Then an archer for itself. Then the usual mix of hindu temples/monastery/missionaries with city walls inserted perhaps.

Varanasi: Archer x1 for Kyoto. Then usual mix of Hindu temple/monastery/missionaries/library.

Osaka: Granary. Consider giving up the Corn farm to Bombay and have the city work mines.

Tokyo: Assign artist specialist when out of revolt. Then... Christian missionary? Library? Courthouse? Spears or Archers?

Kyoto: Same story as Tokyo. Consider inserting City Walls.
 
Something else to consider for the next turn set...

we may want to consider building a 2nd Galley or an exploring Work Boat in Varanasi and setting sail for the land mass to our south.
 
The roster order on 04/16

Conquistador63 = on deck
Ronnie1 = in the hole
sleepless = waiting
McArine = waiting
adrianj = waiting
Grifftavian = just played
Ozbenno = skipped by request
da_Vinci = UP NOW

mc-red = AWOL
 
I am wrapping up taxes tonight, should be able to get a PPP up tomorrow.

If C63 can work on this tonight and would like to switch places (I'll go after he plays) that is also fine (we might save a day that way).

dV
 
First draft, mostly stolen from the prior discussions

dV Draft PPP

Goal: Fast cultural win

Opportunities: GA from music still in play (right?)

Challenges: Could Tgawa, or an unmet beat us to Music? Economy is suffering. Minimal commerce on land, only one TR per city since no currency yet. Where will science come from? Clearly, not the slider.

Per aj: Phases of the game remaining:
1) Tech to Music. Build Sistine Chapel. Still growing cities and building infrastructure.
2) Tech to Philosophy. Switch to Pacifism. Start assigning artists under Caste System. (and scientists in one city for Education). The artists are a significant source of
3) Tech to Liberalism, get there first and take Nationalism. Switch to Free Speech. Start completing Cathedrals.
4) Tech to Drama. Turn down science slider for culture slider. Maximise Culture.

dV Turnset goal: tech to music.

RESEARCH: Lit>Music ASAP

Where to get science? Specialists. Artists generally, maybe scientitsts in Kyoto (academy)?

CITY BUILDS:
(see spoil for prior comments)

Spoiler :
Aesthetics also lets us build the Parth and SoZ. Both give good artist points and a cheap S Paya will let us run pacifism much earlier?

Great point about Aesthetics wonders. Would be nice for Delhi and Bombay to get started on these immediately.


aj recent recs on city builds: (are we going for a cheap S Paya? If so where?)

In all cases, if a city is already part building something, assume it will finish it.

Delhi: 1x spear for the garrison in Kyoto. Then get started on Parthenon. Keep working cottages/farms in preference to mines however.

Bombay: Build 1x spear + 1x archer for Kyoto. Then get started on Status of Zeus.

Vijay: Build Settler for western island. Then continue with temple/monastery/library/missionaries.

Patal: Build a galley+archer to ferry/defend settler to western island. Then an archer for itself. Then the usual mix of hindu temples/monastery/missionaries with city walls inserted perhaps.

Varanasi: Archer x1 for Kyoto. Then usual mix of Hindu temple/monastery/missionaries/library.

Osaka: Granary. Consider giving up the Corn farm to Bombay and have the city work mines.

Tokyo: Assign artist specialist when out of revolt. Then... Christian missionary? Library? Courthouse? Spears or Archers?

Kyoto: Same story as Tokyo. Consider inserting City Walls. With Academy in Kyoto, should we run scientists there for faster research? Maybe city walls while waiting for a Hindu miss? Then H mon, H temple, lib?

FAST WORKER ACTION PLAN

In general, continue building Farms & Mines, maybe pre-chop a few Forests. I assume we are not cottaging … or maybe in Delhi?

Again, given the Academy, do we cottage Kyoto? Or do we solve cash flow by running merchants somewhere? Delhi gene pool is already whack, so maybe that is a place for non-artist specialists?


THE WAR

Are we done fighting Toku, unless he declares?

Defense plan? How do we want to redistribute the army for defense?

CIVICS CHANGES & OTHER STUFF

Per aj: I think we switch to Caste System + Organised Religion immediately. Artists everywhere, except maybe scientists in Kyoto?

Diplomacy: Do we have plans to try to manipulate AI religions, OB with us and OB with others?

Espionage: Where do we want to direct the points now?

REASONS TO PAUSE

Hammy or Liz or Hattie offer us a trade, or a trade becomes available that we could offer one of them.

We meet another ****gawa.

Anything out of the ordinary (like a large English stack of units showing up).
 
It's a classic trade off between science NOW to get us to Music first, or infrastructure/population growth to improve our future output, eg, through Philosophy on to Liberalism.

Scientists in Kyoto has my support. Do artists for a turn or two to expand borders first. Kyoto's borders could be a real issue however if Toku's nearby cities have enough culture to encroach. If this is the case, we might be better off assigning artists.

dV - make sure you are playing off the latest save from the server.
 
dV said:
(are we going for a cheap S Paya? If so where?)
If we're going to build it, I think Delhi or Bombay would make the most sense, as those two cities are already generating Great Prophet points. They are also our most likely first & second Cultural cities, so either would benefit from the Culture generated by S Paya. If we're going to build it, I'd favor Bombay.

dV said:
With Academy in Kyoto, should we run scientists there for faster research? Maybe city walls while waiting for a Hindu miss? Then H mon, H temple, lib?
With a switch to Caste System, I'd favor running as many Great Arists as we can afford for a turn or two, until we get the first border pop when coming out of anarchy, then switch them to Scientists specialists. I think City Walls in Kyoto is a good idea, since it's such an obvious choke point, and should be a quick build with access to Stone.

Kyoto is our only Buddhist city right now; should we consider building a Buddhist Monastery (for when we're out of OR and to help Science in Kyoto) and then some Buddhist Missionaries to spread a third religion to our other cities?

dV said:
I assume we are not cottaging … or maybe in Delhi?
That is my understanding; Farms everywhere to take advantage of our Philosophical Trait, with Cottages in Delhi to take advantage of the Bureaucratic Capitol.

dV said:
Again, given the Academy, do we cottage Kyoto? Or do we solve cash flow by running merchants somewhere? Delhi gene pool is already whack, so maybe that is a place for non-artist specialists?
An Academy gives us a +50% bonus to :science:. As we're eventually be switching to 0% Science & max% Culture at some point, I think Farms to support multiple Scientist specialists would be better to take advantage of the Academy. However, Kyoto has (assuming we get a quick border pop) 3 good Food tiles (Corn Farm & 2 Sheep Pastures) and 4 farm-able riverside grass tiles, so it would make a very nice Great Artist Farm should we choose to go in that direction.

If we want to run some Merchant Specialists, I think the Bureaucratic Capitol of Delhi would be the best place to run them.

dV said:
Are we done fighting Toku, unless he declares?
IMO, yes. If we DOW on Toku, or any of the other Buddhist Buddies for that matter, we get an immediate "You declared war on our friend" negative attitude penalty with all of the other Buddhist Buddies.

dV said:
How do we want to redistribute the army for defense?
IMO, we need to consider Kyoto & Patplipurtra as choke points and garrison them accordingly to prevent land invasions. If/when we get a city (or cities) on the western island, they may need to be self-sufficient when it comes to there own defense, which I guess means the first city on the island should probably have it's own Barracks.

dV said:
Artists everywhere, except maybe scientists in Kyoto?
IMO, yes. I think the Scientist specialists in Kyoto should only be used while we are researching to Liberalism. One we turn the Science slider off, they should be reassigned to Artists. If we choose to run some Merchant specialists in Delhi to supplement our tech rate, I think the same holds true; only use them while we are actively researching, and reassign them to Artists when the Science Slider is turned off.

dV said:
Do we have plans to try to manipulate AI religions, OB with us and OB with others?
I think our only chance of getting OB treaties would be through an AP vote. Can a member defy the resolution and keep it from passing? If we do get OB treaties with the AP members, it may be worth the effort to send a few Hindu Missionaries to Hammy's cities and try to convince him to convert. What few Espionage Points we have are all against Toku, but I'm not sure we have enough to influence his religion. As we can no longer see any of his cities, we're not even sure which religions he has.

RE: City Builds - I still think it may be a good idea to build a second Galley or an exploring Work Boat in Varanasi to investigate the land mass to our south.

EDIT: cross-post with aj.
 
A general thought: this kind of cottageless game is quite out of my usual style, so what is the plan for paying the bills? Right now 100% sci is about -80 gold, and 0% sci is only about +14 gold. The time of the game where we run 0% sci may already be here! :eek:

And if 0% sci just barely pays the bills, then there won't be much culture to gain from a 0% sci economy. So our culture will come from artist cult, artist bombs, wonder culture, and multipliers.

We will get lit in 3 turns, after which the treasury will be spent. The lit NWs become avail ... where do they fit in the plan?

Is it worth my playing 3 quick turns to lit, upload, and refine the plan to music after that (which I would continue on with)? Might even be 2 quick turns in caste running artists.

Should the wonder building cities still run mines to get those done, or is the race to music more important than the race to the aesthetic wonders?

dV
 
I like the play to Lit plan!

Cottageless is very new to me also. I am trying to learn. :(
 
Playing the 3 turns to Literature and pausing sounds like a good idea to me as well.

Just noticed, if we're switching to Caste System, it may be a good idea to run an Artist in Tokyo just long enough to get the border pop, which would allow Tokyo to work the Fishing Boat to its SSE.
 
My thoughts on the AP.

AP Hammy/Hattie could refuse OB but think there both at cautious atm and unlikely to do so. Hammy is more important as we would definitley have trade routes with him. Plus if we do get OB a unit to explore his lands would be an idea. If we don't get ob 2 cities on the island would be best though wouldn't matter whilst we don't have currency. :)

Money/research

Lizgawa. We are paying alot for military atm but have to wait and see what Liz attacks us with before deleteing units though perhaps a couple of warriors could go. Might need the cats for stack attack so not keen on deleting them yet.

Most of our research will come from specs so the slider isn't so important atm though once we go into culture mode any city not likely to produce a GP should run merchants to help raise the slider. At the moment we should mainly go for essential buildings especially hindu buildings.

@da_vinci. I think it would be a good idea to play a few turns to Lit and then work out the best way to music. Though not essential the GA and Sistines would speed our victory time up by alot.
 
I like the play to Lit plan!

Cottageless is very new to me also. I am trying to learn. :(

Short PPP for play to lit: 2 or 3 turns:

Revolt to caste and OR now. Build plan as in draft ppp above. Get army into Kyoto to save cash.

The question then is ... do we jump off of mines to run artists everywhere immediately, or do we want to get the builds done ASAP? My thought is that if a build is hindu miss or hindu building, get it done for the religion spread or the free hammers.

Maybe also want fast builds on those garrison troops in my (really aj's) builld plan?

If artists can shave a turn off of lit, run enough to do that.

Bureau only multiplies commerce and hammers, right? So it doesn't bump specialist science or gold, right? Makes me think that cottage working is the best use of a Bureau capital (esp with no academy, which might make scientists make sense).

Or ... is the rep bonus still worth spec over tiles even in Bureau capital?

If this seems straigtforward, I could play to Lit tonight.

dV
 
Correct bureacracy only works on hammers and commerce so better to use the cottages (one just built that isn't being used).

As mentioned I'd prefer to get the hindu buildings and spreading religion as a priority before running specs in all cities.
 
^ Agree with Sleepless it's probably best to build the Hindu buildings and spread the Religions before running too many specialists.

Keep in mind that while we want Hinduism in all our cities, we need to spread Christianity & Buddhism to at least six of our cities in order to build the Temples required for Cathedrals of both religions in our first two Legendary Culture cities.
 
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