Which real life civs won which victory conditions

So which civs have won what victory conditions.

France - I feel like France has won a cultural victory over us. They have massive tourism (which they were able to conquer through war just like civ 5), they built that Eiffel Tower for bonus tourism and finally Louvre (which is again filled with art and artifacts from civs they warred with). So they are like a real life CV winner.

America is also I think a CV winner; blue jeans, pop music, broadway, great musicians.

So which civs do you think won which victory conditions?

Mongols, domination win

Sweden, diplomatic win.

USA cultural win.

tat501 said:

USA cultural win.

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I am assuming that you are joking?

Are you talking historically (ie who the biggest domination victory winner is ever?) or modern day Civs?

If it's historic then there are quite a few candidates for overall victory contenders (those who would qualify for every title) such as Ancient Greece, Rome, Persia, Egypt, Babylon - all of these Civs were pretty damn nifty in every category in their prime (Science, Domination, Diplomacy, Culture). In fact the only victory they all failed at was Time lol

If you are talking modern times then I would say Diplomatic victory has to go to one of the World's smaller, stable countries that has good relations worldwide such as Switzerland, Denmark, Sweden, etc. Science would go to somebody like UK, USA, Germany. Domination would go to the warmongers of the world like USA, Russia or to a lesser extent China. Culture is a tough one as modern day media culture is dominated by English speaking countries whereas historical culture still definitely remains in places like Rome (Italy), France and Greece due to their historical landmarks and therefore high tourism. I can't pick a definitive answer so these are just some suggestions!!

**EDIT** I forgot about Japan, they are bound to be a shoein for Science domination!! All the new gadgets are coming out of there. They are pretty good in the other categories too!!

HughFran said:

I am assuming that you are joking?

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Why? American artists and actors are known around the globe. Food and dress codes that have been Americanised are also well known and popular around the world. The American culture is the dominant world wide culture right now hand have so been for some time.

johnny_rudeboy said:

Why? American artists and actors are known around the globe. Food and dress codes that have been Americanised are also well known and popular around the world. The American culture is the dominant world wide culture right now hand have so been for some time.

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Let's agree to disagree.

HughFran said:

Let's agree to disagree.

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There really isnt much to disagree with. No other country is even close to producing TV-shows, movies, bands and artists that gets world wide recognition as the USA.

johnny_rudeboy said:

There really isnt much to disagree with.

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Sorry, I am well entitled to disagree with your opinion. Let's just leave it there, I would rather not get into a debate. Feel free to post your own nominations

Personally I'd say

India - Close to CV Win - Indian Food and "Bollywood" has influenced in Middle East, Europe (British/Scottish national dish Chicken Tikka Masala), Africa, and Americas.

America -
Science (Reaching the Moon anyone?) but now we are just paying boatloads of millions to Russia to send people up.
Diplomatic - We host the UN, Control most power and once was a global police. Now less so.
We can pretty much slap sanctions on whichever country disagrees on us pretty safely.
Cultural - Tough to fully support this since "Western" style clothing can be attributed to Europe as well. Music - not so popular overseas. The American style of consumerism and obesity? Yes that is what America's known for now overseas.

France - Cultural - Gotta agree on this.

Russia -
Science - Currently winning the Space game.
Dom - its making moves.

USA !!! USA !!! USA !!!

Murica #1

Well none have Reached a victory condition

Domination-Noone ever controlled All major regions of the world (Mongols only dominated Asia, and The British never held any major European capitals for any amount of time.. those would Probably be the two closest ever)

Culture-While we don't have exact numbers, only America could be considered close (all other "CV" contenders didn't have global reach (ie China couldn't care less about French/Greek/Roman, etc. culture and vice versa)). I'd say that while America is probably the best positioned for a CV, it definitely has not become dominant over all (it started late and others such as France/China/India have massive amounts of their own culture built up to resist Hollywood/Internet)

Diplomatic... last I checked the UN rejected any world leaders (very few CS allies in this game... lots of CS friends)

Science...no one has launched anyone outside of this solar system... closest is the US having been the only one to complete the Apollo Program so far, but that has been it.

Time.. right now probably China best in path for winning (most pop, and more territory than India) but we have to wait for 35 more years.

KrikkitTwo said:

Culture-While we don't have exact numbers, only America could be considered close (all other "CV" contenders didn't have global reach (ie China couldn't care less about French/Greek/Roman, etc. culture and vice versa)). I'd say that while America is probably the best positioned for a CV, it definitely has not become dominant over all (it started late and others such as France/China/India have massive amounts of their own culture built up to resist Hollywood/Internet)
.

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I see what you are saying but I think people on here are putting too much emphasis on media as a culture. If you are talking about other influences such as language then English is the dominant language and that originated in....England!! Also, there are other influences that are subtly felt all over the World. For example, St. Patricks Day is the celebration of the patron Saint of Ireland but it is culturally celebrated World Wide - the World lights up green on the 17th of March. On top of that, the Irish are all over the World for such a small country and have heavy influence in places like Australia and America. I am only using English language and Irish heritage as two examples to argue that television (or media) is not the only form of culture. Sure, it's probably the most 'in your face' culture but there are many subtle cultural influences that we see every day that originated in other countries but never take the time to notice. As one person mentioned above - Indian cuisine is a great example of this!

Culture in BNW is now determined on tourism, and that goes to France with about 10 more million tourists annually than the US.

HughFran said:

I see what you are saying but I think people on here are putting too much emphasis on media as a culture.

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But building media buildings, including using propaganda is precisely how you achieve a cultural victory in Brave New World.

HughFran said:

If you are talking about other influences such as language then English is the dominant language and that originated in....England!!

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It originated in England, sure, but the reason why it is spoken so freaquently (especially in business) is because of America.

HughFran said:

Also, there are other influences that are subtly felt all over the World. For example, St. Patricks Day is the celebration of the patron Saint of Ireland but it is culturally celebrated World Wide - the World lights up green on the 17th of March. On top of that, the Irish are all over the World for such a small country and have heavy influence in places like Australia and America. I am only using English language and Irish heritage as two examples to argue that television (or media) is not the only form of culture.

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Obviously other countries have international reaches; in a civ game even the Zulus have some tourism, usually. However, as others have said, America has straight-up dominated cultures is the last century, and most nations are becoming more and more "American". It's pretty clear if there is a winner as far as "cultural victory" goes, it would be America.

HughFran said:

Sure, it's probably the most 'in your face' culture but there are many subtle cultural influences that we see every day that originated in other countries but never take the time to notice.

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It seems you are upset about something. If you really feel a nation is more culturally dominant than the United States, who ?

otaman1 said:

Culture in BNW is now determined on tourism, and that goes to France with about 10 more million tourists annually than the US.

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Not saying I completely disagree, because you could make a strong argument for France, but I would argue that America's culture score (tourism defense) is larger than France's. For example, I'm fairly certain if we could get the numbers of the percentage of French people who have visited America, that number would be higher than the percentage of Americans who have visited France.

TheKillerNacho said:

But building media buildings, including using propaganda is precisely how you achieve a cultural victory in Brave New World.


It originated in England, sure, but the reason why it is spoken so freaquently (especially in business) is because of America.



Obviously other countries have international reaches; in a civ game even the Zulus have some tourism, usually. However, as others have said, America has straight-up dominated cultures is the last century, and most nations are becoming more and more "American". It's pretty clear if there is a winner as far as "cultural victory" goes, it would be America.



It seems you are upset about something. If you really feel a nation is more culturally dominant than the United States, who ?

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So defining American is tough in itself. Its a nation of immigrants. Pizza isnt american (Its italian as we've all known). Sandwich? British.

Freedom is one could argue an American legacy. Also jeans (invented in America by a Latvian and Russian).

So how popular is Freedom and jeans? Pretty strong but not dominant.

But then how popular is yoga, vegetarianism, henna, and/or Indian food? Pretty strong but not dominant.

How ubiquitous are Chinese restaurants? They are everywhere!

Disagree on the English part - England colonized everywhere and thus spread the language.

I'd agree about the "many subtle cultural influences."

America is definitely winning in science, culture, and military - but its not dominant.

I am not upset about anything KillerNacho. My point is that there are far more significant things that culture is based on than media output. You are trying to say that it is because of America that English is important yet half the known World spoke it before America was even discovered. I think it's unfair to give America the cultural credit for a language that originated elsewhere. I am Irish, I consider Gaelic as culturally significant to my country. I'm sure the English feel very proud that their language is spoken Worldwide and therefore the cultural significance should go to them.

GKShaman raises a very good point that America is a very difficult one to pin down because it is an amalgamation of many different nationalities and ethnic backgrounds. Sure doesn't a very high proportion claim to be from an Irish background for example? Irish, Italian and other cultures are celebrated SIGNIFICANTLY in America. My argument is that people are focusing very significantly on certain aspects of America culture (whcih I am not denying is very strong) but I think GKShaman raises excellent points that other cultural influences are felt World wide but people tend to not notice them as much becuase we see them every day - and yes, you can barely walk 20 feet without seeing a Chinese takeaway!

TheKillerNacho said:

For example, I'm fairly certain if we could get the numbers of the percentage of French people who have visited America, that number would be higher than the percentage of Americans who have visited France.

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Well considering a hell of a lot of Americans don't have a passport, that wouldn't be hard.