I think this is a huge nerf to tradition early game. Its a much later monarchy and hence delays expansion until those slow workers connects the luxury. This makes tradition truly capital focused since late expansions means weaker satellite cities.
Brave New World Patch notes! Version 1.0.3.276
- Thread starter MadDjinn
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Empedocles
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 18, 2012
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- 62
The Tradition nerf is a good one. It removes some of the major advantages it had over liberty, such as the fact that you can build an extra scout at the start of the game since you will always have a free monument very quickly. Now you have to actually consider hard building a monument to get to the good policies faster.
As far as multiplayer, stability is definitely worse now than it was before the patch. But I managed to play a 5 hour game without ever having to reload. Before that I had joined 4 games that all crashed within 15 turns. The game that worked had a good host, and only 5 people on the map. You might try playing with fewer than 6 people and see if that helps. The host did lag(20 second ping) and the game had to resync every few turns, which is annoying. But at least it resynced every time, and we managed to finish.
Madjinn, if you don't believe there is a problem just try joining any pub game. It will crash within the first 20 turns every game.
As far as multiplayer, stability is definitely worse now than it was before the patch. But I managed to play a 5 hour game without ever having to reload. Before that I had joined 4 games that all crashed within 15 turns. The game that worked had a good host, and only 5 people on the map. You might try playing with fewer than 6 people and see if that helps. The host did lag(20 second ping) and the game had to resync every few turns, which is annoying. But at least it resynced every time, and we managed to finish.
Madjinn, if you don't believe there is a problem just try joining any pub game. It will crash within the first 20 turns every game.
Nikolai II
King
I played in Mad's game, which WAS A public game. We got way beyond turn 20, without any problems.
kaspergm
Deity
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- 5,570
I'm not saying it doesn't make Piety worthwhile, I just think it's the wrong way to accomplish that. First of, Reformation Beliefs are for the most part decidedly late-game effects (buying Universities and Public Schools with faith - who needs that in ancient era? Extra tourism from religious buildings - ditto?) so I don't really see the need to push Reformation up in the tree, if anything I would push it down, as regularly we now see religions reforming their religion before it's enhanced, which seems odd in the first place. It will make the belief that allows you to convert Barbarians extra sweet, however.
Imo. Piety should have as its major focus to allow you to found a religion. That is why I would push the Free Prophet up in the tree and move Reformation down to the finisher. This would also help the poor AI who regularly picks Piety but fails to found a religion (duh!). But of course, such a change would require more extensive changes, because you would otherwise see all the religions sniped by AI very fast on higher levels - such a change would therefore have to be accompanied by a feature that allows you to claim ownership of a religion if you conquer a Holy City - otherwise it would just be another nail in the coffin for early expansionist strategies.
player1 fanatic
Fanatic
Hah!
Scientific Wins in BNW now come with a lovely button directing you to the store page for BE.
Spoiler Big Pics :
The more you know~
So that's why Civ5 patch was delayed up to BtE release.
I tend to agree with this. As much as the changes we see now make Piety a more interesting and viable tree (it's better now then it was) it does feel odd that you can reform a religion before it is even enhanced...
Reformation should be a means to work with religion from the mid game which is usually how I play Piety. If I play wide I usually put some early policies into Piety to increase faith/per/turn then I finish Liberty, go on to proposing world fair and win the extra policies/culture and finish Piety for 'To the Glory of God'.... With high faith I can pop out any Great Person I need; Writers for social policies, scientists for tech bulbing (without needing to finish rationalism etc)...
Couldn't they just move Heathen Conversion to an enhancer belief and modify Sacred Sites to finally kill the ICS/SS strategy and then give us a couple new reformation beliefs?
I had been hoping someone would repost the 2K Civ Patch Notes link and save me the bother...
It is a great patch, but I was hoping my pet peeve would be fixed, and let Stoneworks be built on cities founded on plains. Has anyone combed the XML? Might there be a few more tweaks that are not in the patch notes?
It is a great patch, but I was hoping my pet peeve would be fixed, and let Stoneworks be built on cities founded on plains. Has anyone combed the XML? Might there be a few more tweaks that are not in the patch notes?
These are the same patch notes that MadDjinn posted in the OP of this thread.
^^ Yes. I was hoping for a few more details. There are none to be had.
Ryoga
King
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2010
- Messages
- 993
Pretty small change, as I understand, I doubt my choices will be affected.
Just what I was asking for! Thanks!
Stop making official my mods!
Anyway
I'm also surprised they decided to throw cocoa and bison in; especially bison, since as a bonus resource, it wasn't really needed since all holes are already filled. Oh well, grass and plains overall are now a tiny bit more fertile.
- - - - -
Though, Firaxis, I found a new bug in AssignStartingPlots.lua with your new additions:
GetListOfAllowableLuxuriesAtCitySite
Code:local allowed_luxuries = table.fill(false, [COLOR="Red"]35[/COLOR]);
You need to increase the size of this table to 45 too, just as you did with the other ones at the top of the file, shown below.
Code:amounts_of_resources_placed = table.fill(0, 45), luxury_assignment_count = table.fill(0, 45), luxury_low_fert_compensation = table.fill(0, 45),
[snip]
I'm going to wait for your updated mod Barathor. BTW what are you going to do with Cocoa now? Are you going to keep your icons or are you going to use the official ones?
Doktor Vic Tim
King
Now that Cocoa is in the main game, Citrus is no longer the only plantation lux that gives +1 food and +1 gold (although Coca gives +1 gold and +1 food. It's mixed up in the civilopedia). I never started close to Bison, but will Bison be affected by granaries? If not, then Bison might be one of the less desired bonus resources since you can't buff it outside of camp boost techs.
Maybe. I just played a tradition opening. What I used to always do was go was Landed Elite first because usually by that time I wasn't yet low on happiness and the capital was still small enough that I valued the food bonus above the happiness/gold from Monarchy.
Now however its different. You get to Monarchy/Landed Elite quite a bit later so it's a more tricky decision. Do I take the food bonus to keep growing the capital? But by this point you'll have more than 1 city and happiness usually starts to diminish quite quickly here and it will be a long time before you then unlock Monarchy if you do run into happiness problems....
TheMarshmallowBear
Benelovent Chieftain of the Ursu Kingdom
I'll admit I'm a little bit upset, was hoping for more, including scenario/mod support for Hotseat and MP.. I mean, after what? 4 years? still no show?
SammyKhalifa
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2003
- Messages
- 6,308
Nice, hadn't expected this.
Lord Tirian
Erratic Poster
Tomice
Passionate Smart-Ass
Nice that they still care!
I still find it hard to understand their decisions, though. The problem with early policy trees is the glaring difference between the usefulness of their openers IMHO.
3 culture in the capital is just way stronger than 1 per city, even if going wide. By the time we make this decision, we we'll usually still be stuck with one city, even when planning REX. The total amount of culture generated will be larger with the tradition opener, to the very least until early midgame.
And we haven't even mentioned the faster tile aquisition yet, which is pretty useful for wide empires, too.
So one tree starts with a policy that is strong, always useful and provides immediate benefits.
The other 3 start with situational or less immediately beneficial abilities.
Don't you agree that there is a problem?
I still find it hard to understand their decisions, though. The problem with early policy trees is the glaring difference between the usefulness of their openers IMHO.
3 culture in the capital is just way stronger than 1 per city, even if going wide. By the time we make this decision, we we'll usually still be stuck with one city, even when planning REX. The total amount of culture generated will be larger with the tradition opener, to the very least until early midgame.
And we haven't even mentioned the faster tile aquisition yet, which is pretty useful for wide empires, too.
So one tree starts with a policy that is strong, always useful and provides immediate benefits.
The other 3 start with situational or less immediately beneficial abilities.
Don't you agree that there is a problem?
Its not a problem. Some trees are meant to start strong, some ends strong. Getting more culture early vs getting more culture late will even out because you will eventually end up with the same number of policies.
DemonMaster
A.K.A. Fenhorn
The Trad. starter is good, but I must say, being forced to take Oligarchy before Legalism, Landed Elite and Monarchy is a nerf. Not that Oligarchy is bad, it just that everything about Trad, is postponen one SP. We will see how this plays out.
shaglio
The Prince of Dorkness
I don't think it's an issue with MadDjinn not believing there's a problem. But, rather, that he isn't having the problem, so he needs to review the logs of the people who are having the problem in order to find out what the cause is.
I started near Bison in my current game and, unless the Granary tooltip accidentally wasn't updated, then NO Bison are not affected by it.
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