More Civ, Less Fanatic

sketch162000 said:
That's your opinion.



Also your opinion. "Majority" is debatable. If no one posts on the forum, how do you really know what the majority thinks? The game sold well and it was well reviewed by several gaming sites. But a large portion of those sales were probably preorders and impulse buying. Reviewers don't represent a majority at all, and most are not core Civ fans to begin with.



So, we should just lie down and accept whatever schlock they give us? Just because something sells well does not mean it's a quality product.



Your faith in corporations is disturbing. Number one rule in capitalism, profit trumps all. If doing the right thing hurts the bottom line, any company will be tempted to do the wrong thing. Besides, if people don't complain, how will Firaxis know what to patch?



If you aren't reading them, why do they bother you? If no one is reading them, why are you posting in them?



No one is saying that Civ V is the worst thing to happen to mankind. Just because you disagree with someone's criticism does not mean that it is useless or not constructive...Sheesh
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See, this is what confuses me. You guys claim you complain and whine so Firaxis will listen to you and fix the game, then say Firaxis doesn't care what the fans want because of capitalism.

Make up your mind. Either Firaxis cares or you admit you're whining for no reason.
 
Palfouri said:
See, this is what confuses me. You guys claim you complain and whine so Firaxis will listen to you and fix the game, then say Firaxis doesn't care what the fans want because of capitalism.

Make up your mind. Either Firaxis cares or you admit you're whining for no reason.
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Please feel free to contribute to the topic, not against its very premise.
 
I agree completely, this place to me at least always seemed a place where Civ Fanatics could discuss things in a mature way and share findings together, be they strategy's, helping one another, or see if a modd can be made, or simply to make a voiced oppinion.

Sadly these days having an oppinion that differs of others immediatly gets you shunned, and trolled, flamed or flamebaited.

I long for how it was 4 or 5 months back, the forum was alot more pleasurable to read.

I completely agree with both sides, i myself am enjoying the game immensely.
But i can see how some people are running into things they dislike, and im all for patching it, or modding it in so people have a "choice" if they want to play Civ V, or Civ V modded to be more like Civ 1/2/3/4/AC/CoTP etc etc...

Anyways great thread, thanks for starting it.
 
Jharii said:
Seriously, as an overall whole, people really need to chill out a bit here. Everyone wants a better Civ5 game.

Some people have differing and often completely opposite opinions on the current stage of the game. Great, I get that. But the flaming, baiting, and trolling has become excessive and really needs to stop. Every single one of us has the ability to demand more while displaying tact and patience with each other.

And believe me, I've got caught up in it a few times myself. For that, I apologize.

Let's try to tone down the personal attacks and emotional responses and practice some civility and maturity.
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I agree.

If Jharii and me can find common ground (learn to agree to disagree)...I think others can too. ;)

But I must say that I find it hard to believe and I'm totally bewildered that how much forum policy and board moderating is allowed to be discussed here, let alone the amount of discussing is done what other members have freedom to post, should post or how they should express their views (since this isn't Feedback forum).
 
Palfouri said:
See, this is what confuses me. You guys claim you complain and whine so Firaxis will listen to you and fix the game, then say Firaxis doesn't care what the fans want because of capitalism.

Make up your mind. Either Firaxis cares or you admit you're whining for no reason.
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I tend to think your latter statement is more on the mark. Klokwerk has made some excellent points that, whether anyone wants to acknowledge or not, are pretty much spot on.

And the OP is right, the divisiveness has gotten out of hand.
 
Palfouri said:
See, this is what confuses me. You guys claim you complain and whine so Firaxis will listen to you and fix the game, then say Firaxis doesn't care what the fans want because of capitalism.

Make up your mind. Either Firaxis cares or you admit you're whining for no reason.
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Strawman.

It's you who is "whining" with imperfect logic.

Firaxis or whoever is behind the project doesn't care about anything else but about the profit.
Because of the profit they expect they have to think about the fans and that's why as fan you make them listen.

That's capitalism ABC.

You see, how easy. ;)

Oh, and if you like the product and want more of it, you should say so too. It doesn't make sense say that there's no point complaining just because they don't share your opinion that product doesn't need change or fixing.
 
C~G said:
I agree.

If Jharii and me can find common ground (learn to agree to disagree)...I think others can too. ;)

But I must say that I find it hard to believe and I'm totally bewildered that how much forum policy and board moderating is allowed to be discussed here, let alone the amount of discussing is done what other members have freedom to post, should post or how they should express their views.
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:high5: to C~G!

I can only speculate, but I bet they are completely inundated with post reports lately. Maybe to the point of being overwhelmed, maybe even frustrated. I know I would be if I had that job. I don't have that job and I am overwhelmed and frustrated. :)

Hopefully this thread can help alleviate that, even a little. More importantly, I hope we all can get back to constructive and interesting discussions. :)
 
As a long time Civver who has seen the franchise evolve massively, I do think a lot of whines are unfair.

Civ5 'dumbed down'? Maybe, but that was their mission with Civ4 also, abstracting many elements in Civ3 to make it less 'hardcore', and that brought in a lot of new fans who are now ironcially whining about the 'new' fans thinking civ5 is perfect :)

It's interesting to note the number of accounts activated in 2005, that are actively very pro Civ4 and anti Civ5. Hardly a coincidence :p
 
One way start being civil is to stop generalising and grouping discussions into 'you people' and 'we' and 'us'. That's like a herd mentality. There is only good ideas and discussions or otherwise. One shoul discuss the merits of the topic and not based judgements on who the poster is and whose camp.

Lurking in the forums the past weeks, one can easily see the trend of personalities moving into on group or another. Mostly because one has been pushed there by the same use of the terms above by abyone who disagrees with the poster. And once there, most just stay there.
 
klokwerk said:
I agree with the OP, let's talk about the game.

No more "Civ 5 ended the world as we know it" threads. We got your point, you prefer Civ 4. It's fine for us.
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I don't think that was the point of this thread... The point is we can complain, but do it civily.

From reading your other replies, I think the OP is refering to people like you when he says "trolling, baiting, show no tact" etc.
 
I have to agree its making these forums unpleasant, and pretty dull places to come.. Trying to find any useful information without wading through identical polls and threads is now getting boring..

The games not perfect but its darn better than vanilla 4 IMO.. However there are more constructive ways of getting views across than the pre skool methods some posters seem to be resorting too..
 
Rystic said:
But... you didn't bring up any points. You just said he made some excellent ones. I'm asking, what points did he make that were excellent?
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Again, read his post. Or do you want me to quote it for you?
 
Ashwind said:
One way start being civil is to stop generalising and grouping discussions into 'you people' and 'we' and 'us'. That's like a herd mentality. There is only good ideas and discussions or otherwise. One shoul discuss the merits of the topic and not based judgements on who the poster is and whose camp.

Lurking in the forums the past weeks, one can easily see the trend of personalities moving into on group or another. Mostly because one has been pushed there by the same use of the terms above by abyone who disagrees with the poster. And once there, most just stay there.
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I like the sentiment here, and I have a weak spot when it comes to generalizing. When I get fired up, I do it a lot to define my position.

Good for somone to point it out.
 
To be fair, Civ V vanila is not better than Civ IV vanilla, they are the same, full of flaws, design mistakes, awful choices and good ones... They are different by the mechanics of the core, but either cores are partially rotten beyond repair, probably... It willl be tweeked, but not perfected...

The problem is the same, they got some good points and worsen others, so the game are exactly in the same conditions at release, and are both... If i have to blame Firaxis for something, it's the lacking of overall improvement... Anyone can say it's better Civ IV, or Civ V... The truth is that they don't achieve even a little of the quality of some mods for civ IV, and the ideas behind them (which, for the limitation in modding, still are ideas, sadly)...
 
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