[MOD] Fall from Heaven

Stalin_Bulldog said:
On the discussion concerning ancient forests, is it possible to flag locations as being chopped, so that every tile can only get shields(ahem hammers) for chopping once, but be able to be -/de- forested multiple times, and having ancient forests be a forest that can be planted ontop of a forest making it permenant?

That's a great idea to fix the infinite hammers loop. Instead of using a flag 'already chopped' for a previous de-forested forest you may just use a different terrain type called 'ancient forest' or 'enchanted forest' (see below). An ancient forest may then have another graphic representation that slightly differs from normal forests but has the same properties except the fact that chopping the ancient forest does not yield hammers.

Enchanted forests:
I like the idea to have different 'races' (--> religions) with different building types and unique abilites like in Starcraft or Warcraft. For the Elves that may be enchanted forests which can be planted by druids or elven archer. Enchanted forests have +1 food and +1 hammer more than normal forests. Furthermore they have a movement of 1 like grasslands/plains only for elven units to make them more valuable.
 
Kael said:
I did a large reply to each point in this woodelf but the forum ate it :-(

Let me see if I can give some quick replies.
[...]
4. The pagan temple effect is intentional, all temples culture boost was reduced to account for the fact that it will exist.
[...]
6. I don't think the problem is that lack of a difference between the Hunter and the Elven Archer, but the lack of utility of the forests (which you mentioned earlier). Increase the utility of forests and both the elven Archer and the Fellowship of Leaves because more useful.

4. I like the fact that you may build a pagan temple if you have no religion yet (or don't want to switch to a religion). But I think that only the temple according to your religious state should provide it's boni, like the monastery in vanilla civ4.

6. See proposal about 'enchanted forests' in earlier post :)
 
Kael said:
I did a large reply to each point in this woodelf but the forum ate it :-(

Let me see if I can give some quick replies.

1. Your right.
2. Your right, Im going to increase this for 0.60.
3. What civ and relgion are you playing. I know the Runes has the potential to make serious money, I'd like to see what your doing to get so much to see if some option is to adventageous or if it is truely overall.
4. The pagan temple effect is intentional, all temples culture boost was reduced to account for the fact that it will exist.
5. I think your right again, this will be reduced slightly in 0.60.
6. I don't think the problem is that lack of a difference between the Hunter and the Elven Archer, but the lack of utility of the forests (which you mentioned earlier). Increase the utility of forests and both the elven Archer and the Fellowship of Leaves because more useful.
7. I added that because I want tech pursuit civ's to be able to switch to "war mode" in emergency situations (each play style needs a viable way to respond to purely military opponents). One of the ways this is done is to be able to convert their workers to military units. But as you said the upgrade cost needs to be a little higher.

The damn forum Gods strike again.

1 and 2 - :D
3 - I think in the game that I have way too much money I'm India, but can't recall which leader. I have the Fellowship of the Leaves that I founded. The extra cash comes from buildings that give +1 gold if you have fur or reagents or whatever. I like the idea, but it seemed odd to have so much extra cash for cheap upgrades. Maybe allow the player to adjust the culture slider sooner so I could get rid of some of my unhappiness with extra gold?
4 - OK. I'll start building them now. Before I thought I was exploiting.
6 - I look forward to anything that helps the elves. :) Do dwarves get bonuses in hills?
7 - Maybe it'll just take getting used to.

One last thought...Is there any chance you could grant the city that founds a religion a +1 GreatPerson/turn? I only ask because I had a game where I founded the Leaves, but never had a city complete a Wonder, therefore I never got the Prophet to build the special religious building. :( Crap.
 
Joliette said:
That's a great idea to fix the infinite hammers loop. Instead of using a flag 'already chopped' for a previous de-forested forest you may just use a different terrain type called 'ancient forest' or 'enchanted forest' (see below). An ancient forest may then have another graphic representation that slightly differs from normal forests but has the same properties except the fact that chopping the ancient forest does not yield hammers.

Enchanted forests:
I like the idea to have different 'races' (--> religions) with different building types and unique abilites like in Starcraft or Warcraft. For the Elves that may be enchanted forests which can be planted by druids or elven archer. Enchanted forests have +1 food and +1 hammer more than normal forests. Furthermore they have a movement of 1 like grasslands/plains only for elven units to make them more valuable.

I know in Civ3 Fantasy Mods there were different forests that depicted Ancient or Enchanted. I haven't tried skinning the terrain, but if possible it should be doable to have replanted forests be different and then unchoppable. Maybe also have them damage other types of units, ala AoW. That would be cool.
 
Kael,

Read through this mod and downloaded it (over dial up!), there are some great ideas here, just great, but I have to agree with a lot of the people who said the first era just dragged on and on... I played for 45 mins or so and was only just discovered hunters (being my onld non-warrior combat unit). Also love the fact that animals and barbarians are just everywhere. Though I noticed that unlike vanilla civ4, your experience isnt capped at 5 / 10 when fighting animals / barbarians? Is this intended or not. I personally like this, but just wondering.

Anywho, keep up the great work!

Zibby
 
Zibby said:
Kael,

Read through this mod and downloaded it (over dial up!), there are some great ideas here, just great, but I have to agree with a lot of the people who said the first era just dragged on and on... I played for 45 mins or so and was only just discovered hunters (being my onld non-warrior combat unit). Also love the fact that animals and barbarians are just everywhere. Though I noticed that unlike vanilla civ4, your experience isnt capped at 5 / 10 when fighting animals / barbarians? Is this intended or not. I personally like this, but just wondering.

Anywho, keep up the great work!

Zibby

Definitly intentional. I want to reward players for going out and "adventuring" with their units. I had to remove the xp cap to make that happen.
 
woodelf said:
6 - I look forward to anything that helps the elves. :) Do dwarves get bonuses in hills?

One last thought...Is there any chance you could grant the city that founds a religion a +1 GreatPerson/turn? I only ask because I had a game where I founded the Leaves, but never had a city complete a Wonder, therefore I never got the Prophet to build the special religious building. :( Crap.

Yes the dwarves get a simliar bonus in hills (half movement cost and a stregth bonus). Dwarves can't build hills like elves do forests, their special ability is that they can be sacrificed for production.
 
From where does the audio for the order religion originate? I like it a lot, and I would like to hear more of it.
 
Agraza said:
From where does the audio for the order religion originate? I like it a lot, and I would like to hear more of it.

The music for all of the religions except the Overlords is Enya. The Overlords cut if from "Desert Rose" by Sting.
 
Great mod! I have to agree with some of the earlier posts, though: the abundance of techs is bewildering at times and being obliged to construct a different building to train each type of new unit gets tedious. Other than that, it's a fantastic piece of work you've got, and I say this as someone who isn't even a fantasy fan. I especially like the giants :)

Thanks!
 
Here is my current want list for 0.60 which I am planning on releasing friday:

Change list for 0.60:

Fixes:
1. Fixed promotion granting benifits of the Weaponsmith, Armorer, Altar of Luonnotar and the Dragon's Horde. (reported by mamimo)
2. Fixed the fact that holy city wonders could be built in any city. (reported by Joliette)
3. Forests can no longer be built on a tile that already has forests (reported by Joliette)

Balance changes:
1. Moved Remove Jungle from Iron Working to Survival, making it available earlier. (recommended by Stalin_Bulldog)
2. Increase the unit upgrade costs (recommended by woodelf)
3. Anti-unit promotions reduced from +50%/+100% to +40%/+80% (recommended by woodelf)
4. Forest build time increased with Elven Archers (recommended by Joliette)
5. Removed Saboteurs and Shadows ability to pillage (recommended by Joliette)
6. Reduced Axeman, Maceman and Beserker bonus vs Melee from +50% to +25% (recommended by mamimo)
7. Increased the computers likelihood to rush to t2 military units (recommended by mamimo)
8. Priests can be used to add religions to cities like disciples (recommended by Mumin)
9. Added a Fireball spell for Mages
10. Added an Inferno spell for Archmages
11. Added a Root spell for Druids
12. Added an Escape Spell for Saboteurs and Shadows.
13. Decrease the costs for the unit training buildings (recommended by Crash757)
14. Fire elemental added.
15. Conjurer switched from being able to summon an Earth Elemental to a Fire Elemental.
16. Money bonus on Market reduced from +3 to +2. (recommended by Woodelf)


Cosmetic changes:
1. Civics changed to fantasy themed names (recommended by Felzor)
- Representation changed to Anarcho-syndicalist Commune -
- Confederacy changed to City States
- Senior Coverage changed to Care for the Elderly
- Socialized Medicine changed to Public Healers
- Military schools changed to Martial Discipline
- Religious Schools changed to Religious Discipline
- State Funded Education changed to Scholorship
- Environmentalism changed to Guardian of Nature
2. New art for the Demon unit.
3. Add Building strategy tags
4. Add Tech strategy tags


Here is my current list of things I want to get into 1.00.

Change list for 1.00:

Ranged attack for Catapalts and Cannons
Summoned units aren't being cleaned up? (Joliette)
Clean up the tech tree (woodelf)
Religion specific Techs and Civics
- Fellowship of Leaves- Guardian of Nature
- Runes of Kilmorph- ?
- Octopus Overlords- ?
- The Order- Social Order
- The Ashen Veil- Sacrifice the Weak
"Marksman” ability which lets the attacker select the unit he wants to attack in the stack for Assassins, Shadows and Marksman.
The Defiler unit, who destroys opponents land.
The Elementalist unit, who is capable of summoning 4 different types of elementals.
Armageddon spells!
- Apocalypse- Kills 50% of all units, destroys 50% of all buildings, halves city populations.
- Bane Divine- All Disciple branch units are reduced to Prophets.
- Blight- Destroys all food improvements, destroys 75% of all food bonus’s.
- Celestial Realignment- Destroys all active Armageddon spells.
- Doom Inexorable- Summons Meshabber of Dis (avatar unique unit)
- Enslave the Earth- Creates the Mithril Golem (avatar unique unit)
- Entropy Unbound- Slowly destroys the map.
- Glory Everlasting- All Demon units are killed.
- Knell of Darkness- Any living units that die within the owning players borders are raised as skeletons.
- Open Gate- Randomly produces demon units.
The Drown can travel through coast tiles.
Haste Spell for Adepts.
The Infernal Grimoire will have a 25% chance of summoning a barbarian Demon close to the building city.
4th tier religion specific units
Fireball/Infernos have a chance to start forest fires?
Ancient forests? (woodelf)
Switch all spells from improvement code to the command code so they can be used outside the players cultural borders (may need the SDK for this)


As you can tell I am trying to incorporate as many of your guys ideas as I can. Keep them coming.
 
Good list of changes Kael. I can't wait for Friday.

Are there any defend city promotions like the archer in vanilla?

Does anyone else think Philosophy needs another prereq or 2? Civs that start with Mysticism can get the free tech in 30 or so turns or even sooner depending on the goodie hut Gods. A minor issue, however.
 
woodelf said:
Good list of changes Kael. I can't wait for Friday.

Are there any defend city promotions like the archer in vanilla?

Does anyone else think Philosophy needs another prereq or 2? Civs that start with Mysticism can get the free tech in 30 or so turns or even sooner depending on the goodie hut Gods. A minor issue, however.

Yes, the City Garrison line is available to archer units in FFH, making them the best city defenders.
 
A potential far off wishlist item....

Are you planning on adding resources? Instead of "reagents" what about individual components for spells as well? Sulfur, black pearl, mandrake, sea monsters tails, whatever. I always liked gathering stuff and love more and more resources.

Also, is it possible to code farms to potentially act as mines? IE - when you mine you have a small (too small IMO) chance to find gold, gems, ect. What about having farms have a small chance to "grow" resources?
 
Holy sh**!!! The first fantasy mod! This is what I've been waiting for (see my sig :D !!! [party] :band:

I'll DL this immediately I get home this evening and be sure to give you feedback as appropriate.

In the meantime: great work :goodjob: and be sure it's appreciated! :worship:

Edit: removed mention of DyP... that was Kal-El...:)
 
woodelf said:
A potential far off wishlist item....

Are you planning on adding resources? Instead of "reagents" what about individual components for spells as well? Sulfur, black pearl, mandrake, sea monsters tails, whatever. I always liked gathering stuff and love more and more resources.

Also, is it possible to code farms to potentially act as mines? IE - when you mine you have a small (too small IMO) chance to find gold, gems, ect. What about having farms have a small chance to "grow" resources?

When I get to a full spell system this would be great. With only the handful of spells I have so far I hate to limit it even further by placing more specific requirements. So until Firaxis fixes the bug with the promotion code or exposes the command code (ie: releases the SDK) I don't think this will occur. Once they release the SDK, it will be spell heaven.

I dream of a world with spell schools, and a range of mage that can level up in different sorts of magic. So you can build a mage with 3 ranks of Fire Magic and 2 ranks of Death magic for example. And these ranks would determine the power of their spells as well as the spells they have access to. At that point different reagents for different spell types would be really cool.
 
Kael - wow! Fantastic mod. I have played for about 150 turns or so with no problems.

One small bug I wanted to run by folks in case they have also noticed this -

- Ships change direction at the end of every movement. So, if I have a ship moving east-west, at then end of one move it changes its orientation randomly to point east, west, north, south, southeast etc. Its not a big deal, more of an annoyance really. The ships still play fine and move correctly.

This is a great mod!! Thanks :goodjob:
 
Yea i found the same reorientating bug with summoners(boy are they fun)

Also i saw that you swapped earth eles for fire eles, would it be possible to have 4 different eles summonable, perhapes all the same except for strength+ versus one type, str- versus another i.e. Fire<Water<Earth<Wind<Fire or some other ordering, i could see that becoming neat, almost like a 2nd Ed. Dnd Mage Battle
 
Kael said:
The music for all of the religions except the Overlords is Enya. The Overlords cut if from "Desert Rose" by Sting.

Can you be more specific regarding The Order religion music?
 
1. Civics changed to fantasy themed names (recommended by Felzor)
- Representation changed to Anarcho-syndicalist Commune -
- Confederacy changed to City States
- Senior Coverage changed to Care for the Elderly
- Socialized Medicine changed to Public Healers
- Military schools changed to Martial Discipline
- Religious Schools changed to Religious Discipline
- State Funded Education changed to Scholorship
- Environmentalism changed to Guardian of Nature

Awesome, thanks for changing those around. While I think some are still a little cheesy/modern like "Care for the Elderly" (You have to admit, when was the last time you ever saw elves and dwarves worry about their elderly? Maybe you should just replace that civic altogether?), the rest sound much more like a fantasy game. City-states, public healers, and the disciplines are especially good choices in my opinion. Not sure what Anarcho-whatever means, but it's better then representation either way. Good job. Any chance you can release version 0.6 on Wednesday? That's when I get back home :cool:

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