SGOTM 21 - The Shawshank Redemption

AlanH · Jan 9, 2015

Welcome to your BtS SGOTM 21 Team Thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest.

You can find the Game Details in the first posts of the Maintenance Thread. If any changes occur in the game settings or rules, they will be posted in that thread.

Please wait until your team leader/administrator/scribe has reserved a couple of top posts in this thread for game admin information. Then post here to let your team know you have arrived.

Good luck with the game, and - Have Fun!

sossos · Jan 9, 2015

Hi, every one.

Mitchum · Jan 9, 2015

Reserved 1 of 3.

Mitchum · Jan 9, 2015

Reserved 2 of 3.

Mitchum · Jan 9, 2015

Reserved 3 of 3.

Mitchum · Jan 9, 2015

Hello everyone. Welcome to our new players Pollina and sossos!!! :goodjob:

Mitchum · Jan 9, 2015

Initial thoughts:

1. I'm pretty sure that we're going to need Astronomy this game. The game designers said that the game would go long...

2. I'm wondering if we should beeline / sling Currency and buy the first clue for each girl early. That could be the gating factor for our win depending on what the clues are.

3. Combined with Currency, we could get a GM for a Trade Mission to be able to afford clues, REX and research. The GM could come from the GLH or a market + 2 merchants.

4. Having to keep Willem at +1 is a pain, especially if he's close (assumed) and a likely early worker stealing victim. We'll have to dance around that most likely.

5. For visible food, we need Fishing, Camping, Agriculture and AH. We start with Fishing and Hunting, so settling 2E is a decent option even though it ignores the gems... But all of the gems are covered and won't be useable until BW anyway so save them for a later city. I think we want a coastal capital.

For a refresher on Pericles:

Creative - +2 :culture:

per city
Double production speed of Library, Theatre, and Colosseum
Philosophical - +100% :gp:

birth rate
Double production speed of University

Phalanx - Axeman with +100% Defense vs. Chariots
Odeon - Colosseum with extra +1

and +3

WastinTime · Jan 10, 2015

Hi gang!

Nice to finally get started. It's great to have a creative civ. Love those early border pops. I'm glad you posted who we are playing, Pericles, hadn't even looked yet.

Anyone in the mood to create a Pericles test game, lets call it.... Testicles. :lol:

WastinTime · Jan 10, 2015

There have been many horse rushes in the last few SGs, so I don't expect they'll give us horses. Our UU needs copper, so I would think we will get that. Prepare for a Phalanx rush unless the only nearby AI is Willem :mad:

WastinTime · Jan 10, 2015

No real point in speculating...we'll find out more when we get the save...but it's fun...

Intro says we're 'good friends' with Willem. Could mean we start Pleased. That would make it possible to worker-steal him and then make nice.

BSPollux · Jan 10, 2015

Some teams are speculating about the map type. I now realized that my description of a custom-made continents map turned into "custom continents" during the process of preparing the announcement thread. So to make it clear: I always design the maps from scratch and just afterwards I give a suggestion what it might be similar to. And I said "treat it like a continents map". This became "custom continents" somehow without me noticing this detail. Not sure if/how this will effect your plans, but I wanted to make sure you don't work with a false premise. I will post this in each team thread.

Edit:

Ladys and tasks

Elizabeth ("Elizabeth wants to be treated like the queen she is. You need to impress her with unique status symbols, like...")
a) Rename the proudest ship ever to sail the oceans after her and gift it to her (needs at least 50xp to be worthy)
b) not yet revealed
c) not yet revealed

Isabella ("Isabella is all into romantic gestures. My first suggestion to win her heart would be...")
a) Have the most brilliant minds of your time explain to her that your love is pure, true and eternal (bring one artist, scientist and prophet to her capital and gift them to her)
b) Build her a luxurious summer residence (Gift her a city built on desert and next to the coast or an oasis that has an Odeon, a Grocer and a Castle), you must be at +3 relations with her when you gift this city.
done here
c) not yet revealed

Catherine ("Catherine's heart has to be conquered. You will have to prove your might to her by...")
a) Take control of the worlds most important resources: Control 4 aluminum, 6 uranium and 10 oil resources (control = have inside your borders and connected to your trade network).
b) Prove your might with a military parade in her honor (have the following units in her capital at the same time: 12 armored units, 4 air units and 12 gunpowder units, commanded by a general (unconnected)) done here
c) Be the first to get a serious Space Program running (be the first to complete Apollo Program and build three parts of the spaceship, your choice)

Payment options used:
50 gold
75 gold
100 gold
133 gold
166 gold
1 worker

Pollina · Jan 10, 2015

Hi, thanks again for inviting me to join.

No real point in speculating...we'll find out more when we get the save...but it's fun...

Intro says we're 'good friends' with Willem. Could mean we start Pleased. That would make it possible to worker-steal him and then make nice.

No need to speculate. Saves are already up. We do start pleased with Willem (+3). Didn't notice any other surprises at first glance.

Pollina · Jan 10, 2015

Here's a test game. I made it before BSPollux posted, so it is built from a Custom Continents map.

Edit: Forgot to change the name. Feel free to do so. :lol:

LowtherCastle · Jan 10, 2015

My Endgame Strategy Posts

LowtherCastle said:
Endgame Goal Alignment

1. Domination Victory: 658 land tiles. Liz(49) + HomelandNow(163) + LouisLand (47) + MaoLand(161+) + IzzyLand(64) + CathyLand (150) + ShakaLand (88) = 722

We don't need to attack Toku. Our focus after Louis-Mao should be Cathy, Izzy and certain Shaka cities to make sure we accomplish all our goals by ~T170.

2. Izzy Task B: Gift Nijmegen (TaskBCity) @ +3 attitude.

Alternative #1: We knock her down to 1-2 cities, gift her Dummy City (settled on Nijmegen Isle), liberate 6 cities back for +9, CF, verify she's at +3, gift Nijmegen.

Alternative #2: If that doesn't get her up to +3 for whatever reason, then spread Confu to Dummy City, knock her down to Dummy City (to get her out of Buddhism), gift her Nijmegen after she converts to Confu (Nijmegen is Confu+Buddhist ).

Alternative #3: DoW + knockdown + liberate 6 cities + DoW + knockdown to 3 cities repeatedly until +3 gift works without Dummmy City.

3. Cathy Task B: Move GG + 12 armored ... into capital. Knock Cathy down to 3 cities, gift Hague-3S1E, capture her final 3 homeland cities, moving her capital to Hague-3S1E (it might move sooner if big enough), CF, bribe Shaka or Mansa to DoW Cathy, OB, move units to capital. Also: capture Maastricht + Rotterdam + Nobamba +or uMgung, grow to pop8, build forges, and build Kremlin.

Potential problems: 0. We cannot capture Moscow at all for whatevver reason. 1. Neither Shaka nor Mansa has to meet Cathy to DoW her. 2. We don't know if Shaka and Mansa will love Cathy too much to DoW her.

4. Liz Task A: Gift Lizard at +1 attitude. May require additional city liberation.

Key points:
0. We need to see if we can capture Moscow.
1. We need Mansa and/or Shaka to meet Cathy. (Gift Cathy caravel?)
2. We may need to keep Shaka until we have completed the Cathy task, because his DoWing her may be crucial for getting OBs with her, depending on Mansa's attitude toward Cathy.
3. Need Maastricht, Rotterdam, uMgung and/or Nobamba soon enough to build forge and grow to pop8.
4. Guilds asap will help a lot with our warring. Domination by ~T170 might be our Critical Path.

I think that's everything. I'll update this as needed. Search keyword: Endgame.

.

Updated:

LowtherCastle said:
Problem.

Code:

Izzy attitude -4 pagan religion -3 traded with WE -1 refused civic -1 refused stop trading -3 DoWed her +4 trade relations +1 past events -7 Total 10 Liberated cities --- +3 Total.

She could go to -13 when we gift Lizard to her WE Liz. She could go to -11 if her WE anger wears off by +1. She could make more demands we refuse...

Proposed solution #1:
1. Settle Nijmegen-3W, spread Confu there, and put spy there.
2. Set eps on Izzy.
3. DoW Izzy, knock her down to 1 city.
4. CF, gift Nij-3W, change her religion to Confu (spy mission odds = ~79%, cost = ~236eps).
5. Liberate to Izzy her cities, one by one, until she's at +3.
6. Gift Nijmegen.
7. DoW Izzy, re-capture all her cities and bury her in Paris.

Proposed solution #2:
1. DoW Izzy, knock her down to 1 city.
2. CF, liberate 7 cities for +10.
3. If Izzy >= +3, go to #4, else go to #1.
4. DoW Izzy, knock her down to 1 city.
5. CF, liberate 2 cities. She's >= +3, with only 3 cities.
6. Gift Nijmegen.
7. DoW Izzy, re-capture all her cities and bury her in Paris.

Solution #2 requires no investment in a settler, confu miss, spy, and eps. Requires preferably 7 galleons for simultaneous re-capture of cities. Requires 2 turns per re-DoW for Izzy to be willing to talk.

Solution #2, right? No brainer.

LowtherCastle said:
I don't think Canterbury can make it to pop8 or pop10 easily.

Tank raw-whip cities

Need pop8
1. Athens
2. GC
3. Sparta
4. HC
5. Utrecht
6. Amsterdam
7. Hague

Need forge+pop8 or pop10
8. Corn-rinth

Need galleon transport
9. Bulgar
10. Hastings (forge+pop8 or pop10)
11. London (forge+pop8 or pop10)
12. Nottingham (forge+pop8 or pop10)

We need tobuild Kremlin somewhere. Prefereably after we verify we can capture Moscow.

My intro post:

Spoiler :

WastinTime · Jan 10, 2015

Pollina said:
Here's a test game. I made it before BSPollux posted, so it is built from a Custom Continents map.

Edit: Forgot to change the name. Feel free to do so.

I like you a lot already Pollina! Thanks for the test game, and welcome.
I hope my slightly off-color joke did not offend any of the new players (you and sossos). Usually that type of comment comes from LowtherCastle

An official welcome to sossos is in order too! Question: how do you pronounce that? and are there any abbreviations you go by?

WastinTime · Jan 10, 2015

0. I agree that since we start with a worker, we don't need a steal. I also think we've been set up to not have an opportunity to steal and get a worker back safely. And, I'm thinking a 'Friendly' Willem will be the way to go (monopoly tech trade).

I agree with the captial/city locations suggested by Mitchum/LC. However...anyone else tempted to go way north and find food just north of gems? In a truly random map, that's what I'd do. Go for the land grab. We can always settle the south peninsula later. No AI will take that. Coincidentally, for fun, I'm currently playing a Huge, RagingBarb, Deity, Normal speed Dom/Conquest and my capital has only 2 gems and no food. But my gems were not covered in forest. It worked out great...but again, I don't build any settlers, just capture cities, so probably not relevant.

Tech
Mining/BW for sure. I'm not sold on Ag yet. We only have one Wheat. I'm thinking of ignoring it. Also ignore AH since I'm guessing we are not getting horses (from my pre-game reasoning).
Edit: Ag does seem to come just in time for the Wheat improvement. And we don't need mining/bw as early as usual since we have no mining resources. I'm on board with Ag. Our worker wouldn't have much to do without farming and I've fallen in love with more farms lately.

I hate building settlers with food. Actually, I hate building settlers at all, but if there is no close neighbor to kill we have to build them. Building them with food pre-granary is still not as good as whipping them, but it's close. The question is: would we be better off getting Ag/mining/BW/Wheel/Pottery/Sailing and let the streets run red with slave blood? then whip lighthouse/granary/GLH.

I agree we scout south of deer with the worker first before we commit the settler.

WastinTime · Jan 10, 2015

Other than the +3 Pleased that Pollina found, I can't find any surprises/fun twists in the save.
No prefounded religions/corporations, no pre-built wonders. No extra starting tech. I look forward to someone's :mischief:

analysis of the demo screen. What's the largest unit in the game? barb population, etc.

WastinTime · Jan 10, 2015

Here's Turn15 of the Testicles game.
I can't see us playing much different from this. We just grew to size 3 and finished the Wheatfarm. Now we have the option to finish the warrior and grow to size 4 or start settlers this turn.

Boils down to :

t23 settler
t31 settler

or
t17 warrior
t18 pWarrior, grow to size4
t25 settler
t32 settler

I almost forgot, We are playing with barbs on. So we should do the warrior first or else our settlers will have tough time. Maybe even squeeze in another warrior.

WastinTime · Jan 10, 2015

Here's Testicles - T25;
Size 4, settler complete.
Option for warrior#2 or settler#2

I hope there are some surprises like last game, cus so far it feels like every team will be playing it out this far exactly the same. (I'm sure I'm wrong about that.)

BSPollux · Jan 10, 2015

I hope there are some surprises like last game, cus so far it feels like every team will be playing it out this far exactly the same.

I think it's completely impossible to find the sweet spot where there wont be complains/worries/remarks about too much predictability nor about too much randomness. There are quite some options here. If everyone agrees (unknowingly) to do the same start, it's because a group of 5+ players will rarely decide against the middle path. If this was a map for single players we would see people try more extreme strats for sure. That said, even if your prediction (everyone tries the same thing) holds true, there will be differences soon enough.

Edit:
And stop worrying

SGOTM 21 - The Shawshank Redemption

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