Caveman 2 Cosmos

Here is what I want to do to help with Neanderthals, and also lay some other foundations. Treat this as a proposal for comment. It's not hard to do (like a day's work):

Introduce a new XML file Civ4UnitSpawnInfo.xml, which defines directly-spawning (as in not built in cities) units and how they spawn. An example info would look something like this:

Code:
<UnitSpawnInfo>
	<Type>UNIT_SPAWN_NEANDERTHAL</Type>
	<UnitType>UNIT_NEANDERTHAL</UnitType>
	<StartYear>-11500</StartYear>
	<EndYear>-5000</EndYear>
	<SpawnBonuses>
		<BonusType>BONUS_NEANDERTHAL_CAVE</BonusType>
	</SpawnBonuses>
	<SpawnRate>10</SpawnRate>
	<MaxPopulationDensity>10</MaxPopulationDensity>
</UnitSpawnInfo>

Each <SpawnInfo> in the file defines the way one type of unit spawns during a particular timeframe (you can have multiple spawn infos for the same unit type if you want, for instance to modify the spawn rate over time).

Tags operate as follows:

Type - unique id for this spawn info
UnitType - the type of unit which will spawn from processing this spawn info
StartYear - first game year the spawn starts operating (could use eras but I wanted finer control)
EndYear - when it stops operating
SpawnBonuses - list of the bonus types from which the spawn occurs. Spawns may happen on any such bonus in neutral territory if it is not occupied (even if visible, else it's too easy to stop them all)
SpawnRate - average number of turns between spawns for any given bonus plot
MaxPopulationDensity - number of tiles/per this unit type in the local area after which the spawn will be inhibitted

Obviously this could just spawn Neanderthals from existing bonuses, but I'd quite like to see a Neanderthal Cave bonus added anyway. It could allow buildings (Neanderthal embassy obviously) for cities that have it as a vicinity bonus, but also have continued use after Neanderthal spawns have stopped - e.g. - archaelogical dig building, that requires a neranderthal cave in the vicinity and yields a science boost.

Sounds good. I would say starting turn instead of year and likely different depending on game speed. Ending Year seems very subjective depending on a lot of game variables. I've played some where all civs are advanced in the BCs, and other games where we were all "behind" in the later years. I'd say Era is better for ending. Or even one particular Tech.

A lingering cave that provides culture or science is a cool idea.
 
Text we always need help with. In the technology XML file the field which contains the link for text for the quote is held in quote tag eg
Code:
			<Quote>TXT_KEY_TECH_RITUALISM_QUOTE</Quote>
for the ritualism tech. The text itself is put in another XML file in the TEXT folder.

I went through the text document with the actual quotes and filled in all the ones I saw as blank and also made some corrections where I saw them (weird characters where apostrophes should be, missing [SPACE], etc.) Grand War was repeated, so I deleted the second one, which had no text.

I just filled in the quotes where there were already Keys setup, but may later look at adding new keys to create unique quotes for techs that are just using existing ones.

Hope this small contribution helps :)
 

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hello... i think it is about 8 months that i was way.. Now i am back again playing the C2C 15. Great job, great improve...Congrats to all the team and mostly to Hydromancerx.

Welcome back and thanks! :D

Some of these cultures require a particular resource to be in the vicinity of the city to create. Actually, some have 2 requirements (maybe more). If the player chooses a Civ, let's say the Romans (which I often play), will his starting city have the appropriate resources nearby to acquire the Roman culture (eventually)? I think Roman culture requires Olives so would there be an Olive resource near the starting area?

Nope. All picking Roman guarantees is that you start with Culture (European), which is the same as if you picked France, Spain, England, etc. Its still random if you manage to get the right resource near you.

However if you want to make sure you have that culture in your first city then go into world builder and say plop an olive resource next to your city. That will make sure you can build Culture (Roman).

I cleaned out the cache folder but it's still crashing. This time I tried a different map - Perfect World instead of continents and changed a couple of options. It got to the point where it shows my civ's leader but when I click "continue" it crashed to desktop.

C2C Perfect World is my favorite. I know each team member has a different favorite type of map. Thus if you want to experience how i play my games then use C2C Perfect World.

This chnage now pushed to SVN

Thanks dude.

Obviously this could just spawn Neanderthals from existing bonuses, but I'd quite like to see a Neanderthal Cave bonus added anyway. It could allow buildings (Neanderthal embassy obviously) for cities that have it as a vicinity bonus, but also have continued use after Neanderthal spawns have stopped - e.g. - archaelogical dig building, that requires a neranderthal cave in the vicinity and yields a science boost.

I won't jump into this if those that would be likely to make use of it (DH primarily I would think, Hydro maybe) don't think it's a good idea, but I repeat - it's very easy to do.

Opinions...?

I like the idea of a cave being a new resource. I can think of other buildings linked to it such as Bat Guano collecting, Cave Bear Hunting, a requirement for the Cave Painting or Cave Dwelling buildings, etc. I like it a lot.

Also could you add these as new resources or terrain features?

Spoiler :
Tar Pit
Graphic: Oil Resource
Terrain: Any Land (except Peaks and Hills)
Map Gen: Rare
Bonuses: +1 :hammers:
Movement: Impassable

Volcano
Graphic: Here or Here
Terrain: Peaks Only
Map Gen: Rare
Bonuses: +1 :hammers:
Events: Make the Volcano event trigger on this instead.
Movement: Impassable

Geyser
Graphic: ?
Terrain: Any Land (except Peaks and Hills)
Map Gen: Rare
Bonuses: ?
Movement: ?

Mesa
Graphic: ?
Terrain: Desert Only
Map Gen: Rare
Bonuses: ?
Movement: ?

Crater
Graphic: ?
Terrain: Any Land (except Peaks and Hills)
Map Gen: Rare
Bonuses: ?
Movement: ?
 
Welcome back and thanks! :D



Nope. All picking Roman guarantees is that you start with Culture (European), which is the same as if you picked France, Spain, England, etc. Its still random if you manage to get the right resource near you.

However if you want to make sure you have that culture in your first city then go into world builder and say plop an olive resource next to your city. That will make sure you can build Culture (Roman).



C2C Perfect World is my favorite. I know each team member has a different favorite type of map. Thus if you want to experience how i play my games then use C2C Perfect World.



Thanks dude.



I like the idea of a cave being a new resource. I can think of other buildings linked to it such as Bat Guano collecting, Cave Bear Hunting, a requirement for the Cave Painting or Cave Dwelling buildings, etc. I like it a lot.

Also could you add these as new resources or terrain features?


Can't see any problem with adding them if someone can provide graphics - that's the only part I'm not able to do. I'll see about adding the ones you have proposed graphics for in the next day or two.
 
I went through the text document with the actual quotes and filled in all the ones I saw as blank and also made some corrections where I saw them (weird characters where apostrophes should be, missing [SPACE], etc.) Grand War was repeated, so I deleted the second one, which had no text.

I just filled in the quotes where there were already Keys setup, but may later look at adding new keys to create unique quotes for techs that are just using existing ones.

Hope this small contribution helps :)

Thanks for this. StrategyOnly have you taken this and merged it in?
 
Here is what I want to do to help with Neanderthals, and also lay some other foundations. Treat this as a proposal for comment. It's not hard to do (like a day's work):

Introduce a new XML file Civ4UnitSpawnInfo.xml, which defines directly-spawning (as in not built in cities) units and how they spawn. An example info would look something like this:

Code:
<UnitSpawnInfo>
	<Type>UNIT_SPAWN_NEANDERTHAL</Type>
	<UnitType>UNIT_NEANDERTHAL</UnitType>
	<StartYear>-11500</StartYear>
	<EndYear>-5000</EndYear>
	<SpawnBonuses>
		<BonusType>BONUS_NEANDERTHAL_CAVE</BonusType>
	</SpawnBonuses>
	<SpawnRate>10</SpawnRate>
	<MaxPopulationDensity>10</MaxPopulationDensity>
</UnitSpawnInfo>

Each <SpawnInfo> in the file defines the way one type of unit spawns during a particular timeframe (you can have multiple spawn infos for the same unit type if you want, for instance to modify the spawn rate over time).

Tags operate as follows:

Type - unique id for this spawn info
UnitType - the type of unit which will spawn from processing this spawn info
StartYear - first game year the spawn starts operating (could use eras but I wanted finer control)
EndYear - when it stops operating
SpawnBonuses - list of the bonus types from which the spawn occurs. Spawns may happen on any such bonus in neutral territory if it is not occupied (even if visible, else it's too easy to stop them all)
SpawnRate - average number of turns between spawns for any given bonus plot
MaxPopulationDensity - number of tiles/per this unit type in the local area after which the spawn will be inhibitted

The advantages of doing this in the DLL and controlling it through XML are:

  1. XML modding is easier so it'll be easier for modders to fiddle with and make new uses of
  2. DLL based code is higher performance so it will impose less overheads than doing it in Python
  3. It's a generic system that can be used for a number of purposes. Obviously Neanderthals, but also potentially animals, or future alien menaces

Obviously this could just spawn Neanderthals from existing bonuses, but I'd quite like to see a Neanderthal Cave bonus added anyway. It could allow buildings (Neanderthal embassy obviously) for cities that have it as a vicinity bonus, but also have continued use after Neanderthal spawns have stopped - e.g. - archaelogical dig building, that requires a neranderthal cave in the vicinity and yields a science boost.

I won't jump into this if those that would be likely to make use of it (DH primarily I would think, Hydro maybe) don't think it's a good idea, but I repeat - it's very easy to do.

Opinions...?

I think this is a good idea. It would also let us control animal spawning better. Do you remember the general discussion thread about all barbarian spawning?

My concentration ability is still way down but I am working on getting the volcano feature in. So Koshling you don't need to worry about it. ;)
 
Sounds good. I would say starting turn instead of year and likely different depending on game speed. Ending Year seems very subjective depending on a lot of game variables. I've played some where all civs are advanced in the BCs, and other games where we were all "behind" in the later years. I'd say Era is better for ending. Or even one particular Tech.

A lingering cave that provides culture or science is a cool idea.

The reason I went for year rather than turns exactly that year self-normalizes for game speed, whereas turn does not. Also I would have the spawn rate normalize to game speed using the same calculation that city build costs do.

I agree that a tech-discovery based start or end condition also makes sense though, and I don't see any issue with providing those options also.
 
I have been playing v15 since it came out, and I just want to congratulate you on how fantastic it is - I'm having a whale of a time with it, and love the way the "culture" buildings have been redone in this version. I loved them in v14 too, but this is even better.

Just a couple of points (ok, a few points), if I may:

1. The balance between AI and human controlled civs seems worse in this version than in previous - I start a game with myself and one AI civ, and Barbarian Civs turned on so that more civs arise during play. I haven't met any barbarian-derived civs yet, but it is 80AD and my original AI opponents the Ottomans are still a minor civ with 1 city, researching megafauna domestication, while I have 16 cities and am sending out my fleet of caravels to explore the world, have already researched gunpowder and am about to finish astronomy. I would like to help them out a bit (out of pity mostly!) but at this rate, by the time they become a real civ with diplomatic options and able to trade with me, I am going to have nuclear powered assault mecha (or similar!) roaming the world!

2. Have some of the terrain and terrain features been changed graphically? Now having trouble seeing roads and other types of route or lumbermills/earlier forest improvements on forest squares (because even when I have built something the forest covers it up), and grassland is very bright green and looks a bit plastic - or is this due to my settings? Although I haven't changed them since my last game.

3. (although this should probably go in the ideas thread, and isn't specific to v15) IMO there's currently a gap in terrain improvements - lumbermills are preceded by lumberjacks and wood gatherers, which is excellent - however there is as yet no precursor to the forest preserve. It would be fantastic to see something along similar lines implemented for the forest preserve - the earliest version could be a hunters hide (req. Hunting tech or maybe Trapping to make it available a bit earlier), upgrading to game reserve (req. Aristocracy tech, thinking along the lines of hunting grounds for the nobility) - these resulted in forests being preserved rather than chopped down for lumber so would be suitable forerunners for the forest preserve improvement. They could also have a chance of discovering forest type resources such as deer, pigs, apples etc... unfortunately I don't have the first clue how to go about doing this myself.

4. Some of the buildings and cultures in C2C require the resource fur - since playing C2C (and I am a chronic restarter so I've played lots of different games for several hours each!) I have never seen fur come up as a resource, although I used to see it when playing ROM/AND on the same map type. Is this a bug or am I using the wrong map for C2C? I am using the ROM_Terra map.

Anyway fantastic job on the mod so far - I am now in a race to see whether I can actually finish a game before v16 is released, because you lot are quicker at updating than I am at playing!!!! Nice job, love it :)
 
The reason I went for year rather than turns exactly that year self-normalizes for game speed, whereas turn does not. Also I would have the spawn rate normalize to game speed using the same calculation that city build costs do.

I agree that a tech-discovery based start or end condition also makes sense though, and I don't see any issue with providing those options also.


I suppose they do. I guess I just always get timid with "ticking bombs" that I have no control over. Turns must move forward one by one. But a tech or era can be put off for awhile by choosing other things to research or even slowing down research.

It's fine either way as long as the main issues already discussed get addressed-- which they definitely are with this new feature! :goodjob:
 
1. The balance between AI and human controlled civs seems worse in this version than in previous

I have noticed the same thing - the AI civs are progressing at a VERY slow rate, very much slower than previous versions.
 
I have been playing v15 since it came out, and I just want to congratulate you on how fantastic it is - I'm having a whale of a time with it, and love the way the "culture" buildings have been redone in this version. I loved them in v14 too, but this is even better.

Just a couple of points (ok, a few points), if I may:

1. The balance between AI and human controlled civs seems worse in this version than in previous - I start a game with myself and one AI civ, and Barbarian Civs turned on so that more civs arise during play. I haven't met any barbarian-derived civs yet, but it is 80AD and my original AI opponents the Ottomans are still a minor civ with 1 city, researching megafauna domestication, while I have 16 cities and am sending out my fleet of caravels to explore the world, have already researched gunpowder and am about to finish astronomy. I would like to help them out a bit (out of pity mostly!) but at this rate, by the time they become a real civ with diplomatic options and able to trade with me, I am going to have nuclear powered assault mecha (or similar!) roaming the world!


You're much better than me! I'm playing on Prince and Ragnar is far ahead of me with tech and able to pound out World Wonders with uncanny speed. I got embroiled in a slow war with my neighbor, Suveryman (sp?) and while we were slugging it out at about equal tech, the other two AIs took the top spots, so now we're BOTH screwed! :lol:
 
@Koshling & Dancing Hoskuld

Can't see any problem with adding them if someone can provide graphics - that's the only part I'm not able to do. I'll see about adding the ones you have proposed graphics for in the next day or two.

Apparently the FfH Age of Ice mod that comes iwth civ4 has some features we should use ...

- Crater (Not too pretty but its the only crate i have found)

- Rock Arch (This looks cool I like the one where you can actually see the hole in the center.)

- Frozen Ship (This looks like it would be fun to discover ships frozen in sea ice later in the game)

- Volcano (not as pretty as the other but it is a terrain feature already).

Also they have some other stuff that looked interesting such as ...

- Traps (might be cool to allow traps as either an improvement to catch food or traps in a defensive improvement).

- Bones (might be interesting to have it was greatly reduced in size as a scavenging resource or something. Or even a fossil site.)

In short could you guys and some of these terrain features like the crater or Rock Arch to the game? Thanks! :cool:

----------

On side not I found these the other day. They look like they would be fun to add.

Naval Mine

In fact it would be nice to add other things like landmines or other traps. Then have mine detecting units and mine defusing units.
 
You're much better than me! I'm playing on Prince and Ragnar is far ahead of me with tech and able to pound out World Wonders with uncanny speed. I got embroiled in a slow war with my neighbor, Suveryman (sp?) and while we were slugging it out at about equal tech, the other two AIs took the top spots, so now we're BOTH screwed! :lol:

I'm with you, i am in the top Five SOME times, but cant get to that top spot, i wonder if its the type of map that makes a difference or something? I only use Custom Scenarios.... I looked at all the civs and they are pretty much the same within around 300 pts or so?
 
Just updated to 15.1 from my 15 game and keep getting an endless turn after the save point I'm supplying.
Thought those were fixed. *wink*

Cheers

Edit: Reverting back to 15 solved it.

Edit2: Folder name for use with save game is Caveman2CosmosSolo
I use that to test out own changes and play my solo games with my own settings, as opposed to playing with others in MP games.
 
I'm with you, i am in the top Five SOME times, but cant get to that top spot, i wonder if its the type of map that makes a difference or something? I only use Custom Scenarios.... I looked at all the civs and they are pretty much the same within around 300 pts or so?

Yeah I play on Monarch Difficulty, Standard Size, Snail Speed and C2C Perfect World Map and I still get my butt kicked for much of the time. I would say I am smack dab in the middle with one half weaker than me and the other half stronger than me. Personally I think that is a good thing seems to be balanced in that aspect of the game. Its not fun to be at the bottom and it can get boring at the top.
 
Some minor things:

DH: path for the voodoo missionary sound files, currently it´s custon_ not custom_ as it should be.

HX: Big Ben; current definition tries to replace the townclock while it´s still a prereq. I deleted the replace building and now Big Ben can be build as intended.

Aside from this:
congratulations for your own forum, well deserved. :goodjob:
And now you might excuse me, i have a game going on. :woohoo:
 
i uploaded it as maximum compatibility... :) please help
 

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