Conqueror '91
Crimethinker
here ya go.
New SG!!! Regent? Emperor?
- Thread starter Conqueror '91
- Start date
Conqueror '91
Crimethinker
here ya go.
Conqueror '91
Crimethinker
here ya ah...
SesnOfWthr
True Believer
Well, I got it.
Probably won't play till Sunday afternoon, so any comments/evaluation is welcome.
Probably won't play till Sunday afternoon, so any comments/evaluation is welcome.
M60A3TTS
Ex-treadhead
Ill have to confess that this last set of turns has left me somewhat at a loss. Let me just start by saying I fully agree that when its someones 10-turn round, they decide how to play them. In some of the previous posts, we were discussing the advantages of taking on the Incas, particularly with the northern cities. I just want to review why I felt it was the logical move given the situation.
1. We knew the terrain. In all cases the defending cities had no natural defenses, given the terrain the cities were located on.
2. We had a reasonable expectation of what the defense would look like. 2-3 defenders, given the city size, and the fact Incas are still expanding north. We had no real expectaions for Monty, other than knowing jag warriors are dirt cheap.
3. We were reasonably sure that in about a 2-3 turn period, we could take 3 Inan cities, and be in a position to follow up shortly with 2-3 more, providing we allocate the needed forces to the right places.
4. On the other hand, the terrain the Aztecs control seemed to be rather hilly, which might give them a defensive advantage, and it would be a slow moving effort on our part. That seems now to have come all too true, as Texcoco, size 5, is on a hill, and weve been assaulting it without any success from a floodplains tile. If the decision is to press on against it, Id suggest attacking it from the adjacent sw hill tile, although then if Monty walls the city, he again has significant advantage.
Regardless of the choice, Aztecs or Incas, Ill gladly work with either plan, but an important point, IMHO, has been missed. Earlier in the thread, we stressed the idea of having settlers with the attacking force to prevent another civ from settling in a place where a city is razed, intentionally or not. We razed the Aztec city, and now the Iroquois and Americans are heading there with settlers of their own, and will merely build in the open space, also denying us an iron tile. It would also inhibit our ability to reinforce the attack. I most humbly request Wes change the queue of Piedras Negras to settler, and rush buy it before starting their 1st turn. We cant do it with Lagerto, as it just finished the build on a MI. We also seem to be in the same situation against Tiacopas. Again, without a settler at the ready, its likely the Greeks will just settle there if razed.
One other point Ill mention is the Aztec city of Tula does have incense. Id like to at least have that as a reward for this exercise. My gut tells me Texcoco may be the next Verdun, and I'm just not sure it's worth it. But that's just me.
Just want to say finally that I hope Im not coming off as critical here. Whether I agree with another players strategy or not doesnt matter. I would just like us all to be able to play the game a bit better through the learning experience when alls said and done.
1. We knew the terrain. In all cases the defending cities had no natural defenses, given the terrain the cities were located on.
2. We had a reasonable expectation of what the defense would look like. 2-3 defenders, given the city size, and the fact Incas are still expanding north. We had no real expectaions for Monty, other than knowing jag warriors are dirt cheap.
3. We were reasonably sure that in about a 2-3 turn period, we could take 3 Inan cities, and be in a position to follow up shortly with 2-3 more, providing we allocate the needed forces to the right places.
4. On the other hand, the terrain the Aztecs control seemed to be rather hilly, which might give them a defensive advantage, and it would be a slow moving effort on our part. That seems now to have come all too true, as Texcoco, size 5, is on a hill, and weve been assaulting it without any success from a floodplains tile. If the decision is to press on against it, Id suggest attacking it from the adjacent sw hill tile, although then if Monty walls the city, he again has significant advantage.
Regardless of the choice, Aztecs or Incas, Ill gladly work with either plan, but an important point, IMHO, has been missed. Earlier in the thread, we stressed the idea of having settlers with the attacking force to prevent another civ from settling in a place where a city is razed, intentionally or not. We razed the Aztec city, and now the Iroquois and Americans are heading there with settlers of their own, and will merely build in the open space, also denying us an iron tile. It would also inhibit our ability to reinforce the attack. I most humbly request Wes change the queue of Piedras Negras to settler, and rush buy it before starting their 1st turn. We cant do it with Lagerto, as it just finished the build on a MI. We also seem to be in the same situation against Tiacopas. Again, without a settler at the ready, its likely the Greeks will just settle there if razed.
One other point Ill mention is the Aztec city of Tula does have incense. Id like to at least have that as a reward for this exercise. My gut tells me Texcoco may be the next Verdun, and I'm just not sure it's worth it. But that's just me.
Just want to say finally that I hope Im not coming off as critical here. Whether I agree with another players strategy or not doesnt matter. I would just like us all to be able to play the game a bit better through the learning experience when alls said and done.
SesnOfWthr
True Believer
Geez M60, what's your name, Miss Cleo? I swear you were reading my mind when you wrote that post.
If we are going to pursue a 20k, CI must be taken off-line, for all intents and purposes. There are a series of wonders coming that will be very important to us. HG I haven't given up on as germany is the only one building it and Berlin is still only a size five. Otto is more willing to part w/ monarchy now as Incas and possibly more civs have it.
As for the open city location, I was thinking of a whip in copan, as that gets the settler to the city spot in four turns, rather than 6 from CI. The biggest drawback is that it would effectively cost us four citizens. Either way, I am going to have to use all units in the area to keep Iriquois away. Americans can't be there soon enough. This means that at best, I could take the incense at the end of my turns, as our units will be up to five squares away. I'm glad you made the point about the incense M60, as my initial impulse was to end this war immediately.
I don't however, think we missed our window of oppurtunity with the Incas. They are still down currency in the AA, so if we can regroup our forces, I would say that either Pind or M60 could have a shot at them before they get pikes.
The more I look at this save, the more I want to play it. Unfortunately for me, I've indulged a bit tonight and that's when I seem to make mistakes, so I'm still gonna wait till tomorrow.
I would still like some input guys, especially with the Copan thing, and the possible continuation of this war for the incense.
Edit: Sorry, misunderstood yout settler rush M60. A rush in PN gets the settler there in three turns and costs us three lives in one of our more distant cities. A much better option, undoubtedly.
If we are going to pursue a 20k, CI must be taken off-line, for all intents and purposes. There are a series of wonders coming that will be very important to us. HG I haven't given up on as germany is the only one building it and Berlin is still only a size five. Otto is more willing to part w/ monarchy now as Incas and possibly more civs have it.
As for the open city location, I was thinking of a whip in copan, as that gets the settler to the city spot in four turns, rather than 6 from CI. The biggest drawback is that it would effectively cost us four citizens. Either way, I am going to have to use all units in the area to keep Iriquois away. Americans can't be there soon enough. This means that at best, I could take the incense at the end of my turns, as our units will be up to five squares away. I'm glad you made the point about the incense M60, as my initial impulse was to end this war immediately.
I don't however, think we missed our window of oppurtunity with the Incas. They are still down currency in the AA, so if we can regroup our forces, I would say that either Pind or M60 could have a shot at them before they get pikes.
The more I look at this save, the more I want to play it. Unfortunately for me, I've indulged a bit tonight and that's when I seem to make mistakes, so I'm still gonna wait till tomorrow.
I would still like some input guys, especially with the Copan thing, and the possible continuation of this war for the incense.
Edit: Sorry, misunderstood yout settler rush M60. A rush in PN gets the settler there in three turns and costs us three lives in one of our more distant cities. A much better option, undoubtedly.
P
pindicator
Guest
Hey, I don't have XP and all my file unzippers don't support w3g. Where can I get a utility to extract it?
yoshi74
Tourist from Mars
Some comments from a lurker:
1. You're building military units in your two eastern cities without barracks. They need only 2 turns to build.
2. Your capitol works on 6 unimproved tiles. Consider your aiming at a 20K vic thats really bad. You could make addional 5-6 shields and more commerce. You should have more workers, especcialy slaves, considering your UU. Make use of it. It isn't as strong as a sword. But having some for an enemy archer or other wounded unit to get some free slaves would benefit your infrastructure a lot.
3. Your research goes the wrong way too when aiming at 20K. Also the lower path is the one the ai normally goes. So researching to upper branch(mono,edu) gives you the ability to build happyness and research buildings, build up culture (and great culture wonders) and allows you to trade for all the techs from the invention branch. With your current research path you do the same as the ai, with the effect that you have to research most of the upper branch too. This will throw you out of any 20K shedule and slows the tech path for you quite a lot!
4. Was the atztec city (Tzi) witch now lies in rubble autorazed? I doubt it was autorazed, you don't get workers from it then. This leaves the question: Why was it razed at all. There are no cultural borders near it, its small and about the same distance to their capital as to yours. Capturing it wasn't a risk at all. The citizins would be a little upset, till its connected to your road network (which needed only on tile more anyway) bring the lux in. Also notice that razing decreases your relation with everyone! So hold off the razing till its really needed. For cities with strong cultural neighbour cities, especially with wonders in it. Enough units can prevent a flip at all. And your culture rating towards the aztecs is really good. There are some culture-flip calculators in the customizsation board to get a clue how big the risk of a culture flip actually is.
5. I dont want to say a lot about the war against the aztecs. They had nothing usefull close to your border. Only mountains, hills and desert. The incense is the only valuable, but this city seems not really under attack.
Some comments, hope they help
1. You're building military units in your two eastern cities without barracks. They need only 2 turns to build.
2. Your capitol works on 6 unimproved tiles. Consider your aiming at a 20K vic thats really bad. You could make addional 5-6 shields and more commerce. You should have more workers, especcialy slaves, considering your UU. Make use of it. It isn't as strong as a sword. But having some for an enemy archer or other wounded unit to get some free slaves would benefit your infrastructure a lot.
3. Your research goes the wrong way too when aiming at 20K. Also the lower path is the one the ai normally goes. So researching to upper branch(mono,edu) gives you the ability to build happyness and research buildings, build up culture (and great culture wonders) and allows you to trade for all the techs from the invention branch. With your current research path you do the same as the ai, with the effect that you have to research most of the upper branch too. This will throw you out of any 20K shedule and slows the tech path for you quite a lot!
4. Was the atztec city (Tzi) witch now lies in rubble autorazed? I doubt it was autorazed, you don't get workers from it then. This leaves the question: Why was it razed at all. There are no cultural borders near it, its small and about the same distance to their capital as to yours. Capturing it wasn't a risk at all. The citizins would be a little upset, till its connected to your road network (which needed only on tile more anyway) bring the lux in. Also notice that razing decreases your relation with everyone! So hold off the razing till its really needed. For cities with strong cultural neighbour cities, especially with wonders in it. Enough units can prevent a flip at all. And your culture rating towards the aztecs is really good. There are some culture-flip calculators in the customizsation board to get a clue how big the risk of a culture flip actually is.
5. I dont want to say a lot about the war against the aztecs. They had nothing usefull close to your border. Only mountains, hills and desert. The incense is the only valuable, but this city seems not really under attack.
Some comments, hope they help
SesnOfWthr
True Believer
@pindicator - earlier in the thread I had the same problems, although I am running XP. I just downloaded a free version of winzip, and that seems to be working fine.
M60A3TTS
Ex-treadhead
@ Yoshi- good point on barracks. Tech observation interesting. My impression would have been the opposite based just on Industrial age. Normally when Im behind techs, I get to ToE first, research A-Theory and electronics. Then usually pick up all the top tier techs from the AI with Scientific Method and/or A-Theory. Top it off w/Hoover Dam using pre-build. Razing
conceptually I agree with you, but in CQs defense, I have seen cities flip for no apparent reason, and some people just raze for fun. Given that having fun is part of our objective, I can let that one go, provided our settler is ready to jump in.
I think as a group we need to agree on a winning objective and play in support of it. Otherwise, histograph seems to win by default. We could have been building towards HGardens in CI 20 turns ago in support of the 20K victory. That assumes we have monarchy. I believe since we had no clear cut decision as to who we were attacking, Reg felt it necessary to keep CI in sword-making mode, esp if the southern campaign turned out as the decision. The HG may not be a deal-breaker w/ the 20K, but if CI doesnt get Bachs and Shakespeares, I dont see that victory as a possibility. Last point is on the question of having the pre-req tech for wonders. If IBT an AI player knows hes lost out on a wonder, but has a lot of accumulated shields in a city for that wonder, it does what any human player does. It tries to get the tech it needs to transfer the shield balance to the next wonder. Ever ask yourself why in another game, Ragnar says This friend needs Literature! other than the fact hes a jerk? Its because he knows if you dont cave, he cant switch to G-Library, and just lost a ton of shields in a wonder race. So in our case, I may not matter that only 2 AI players have Monarchy. If Lincoln knows hes about to waste 399 shields, hell do everything he can to get Monarchy that turn. One turn later, voila! The Americans have built the Hanging Gardens. But Id like to get back to consensus building here. Are we going for 20K, and can we agree to work towards that? Otherwise, histograph, or someone else please offer an alternative.
I think as a group we need to agree on a winning objective and play in support of it. Otherwise, histograph seems to win by default. We could have been building towards HGardens in CI 20 turns ago in support of the 20K victory. That assumes we have monarchy. I believe since we had no clear cut decision as to who we were attacking, Reg felt it necessary to keep CI in sword-making mode, esp if the southern campaign turned out as the decision. The HG may not be a deal-breaker w/ the 20K, but if CI doesnt get Bachs and Shakespeares, I dont see that victory as a possibility. Last point is on the question of having the pre-req tech for wonders. If IBT an AI player knows hes lost out on a wonder, but has a lot of accumulated shields in a city for that wonder, it does what any human player does. It tries to get the tech it needs to transfer the shield balance to the next wonder. Ever ask yourself why in another game, Ragnar says This friend needs Literature! other than the fact hes a jerk? Its because he knows if you dont cave, he cant switch to G-Library, and just lost a ton of shields in a wonder race. So in our case, I may not matter that only 2 AI players have Monarchy. If Lincoln knows hes about to waste 399 shields, hell do everything he can to get Monarchy that turn. One turn later, voila! The Americans have built the Hanging Gardens. But Id like to get back to consensus building here. Are we going for 20K, and can we agree to work towards that? Otherwise, histograph, or someone else please offer an alternative.
SesnOfWthr
True Believer
M60- I for one, am still willing to commit to 20k. I still plan on building HG (or trying). If we lose it we can cascade to sun tzus. With some MM and terrain improvements in CI I think it can be done in approx. 15 turns. We are currently only one turn into Engineering, so I feel OK switching to monotheism now. As Yoshi mentioned, that's a more important tech path that will give us oppurtunities for Sistine, Bach, Newtons, and shakes. The four of those add up to 28 culture per turn!
As it's afternoon now, and I'm in a much clearer frame of mind, I'm gonna play my turns. Should be able to post save/log a bit later on.
As it's afternoon now, and I'm in a much clearer frame of mind, I'm gonna play my turns. Should be able to post save/log a bit later on.
M60A3TTS
Ex-treadhead
You're right, Wes. My math says 15 turns as well. You can trade Republic or Currency straight up to a couple civs for Monarchy. Then switch MI in CI to HG save you 36 shields there, leaving 264 to go. @ 18 spt, thats 15. If you want to be sure whether we will likely get HG, investigating Boston, Athens & Berlin costs us 244 gold. Those are the current 3 wonder-building cities outside Aztec building Zeus, which Monty won't flip away from, given his militaristic trait. Also discounting Iroquois build in Niagra Falls. @ pop size 2, he'll be a while. I would guess it's a question of whether the 3 cities I mentioned can beat us to it. Bos or Athens may flip off G-Lighthouse to HG once one of them builds the Light.
SesnOfWthr
True Believer
Turns already begun. Traded away Republic as that kept the Greeks (scientific) in AA. Not gonna waste the money with investigations as I can't MM CI any more until I get a few more improvements.
Btw - some of our workers are doing odd things, I hope they're not automated. (cleaning volcano, roading useless mtns)
Btw - some of our workers are doing odd things, I hope they're not automated. (cleaning volcano, roading useless mtns)
yoshi74
Tourist from Mars
@M60:
Your observation is correct for the IA. But in the MA the ai prefer the lower path (maybe want to get the muskets, cannons and cavs fast).
For the fun of razing: Well, a lot things might be fun, even when they make the game harder in the long run. I just gave an advice. I didn't judge on someone.
Your observation is correct for the IA. But in the MA the ai prefer the lower path (maybe want to get the muskets, cannons and cavs fast).
For the fun of razing: Well, a lot things might be fun, even when they make the game harder in the long run. I just gave an advice. I didn't judge on someone.
M60A3TTS
Ex-treadhead
No, indeed you didn't. Thanks for checking in.
SesnOfWthr
True Believer
Pre flight -> Almost everyone has Monarchy, though no one is building it
. Yet. Someone is bound to finish the lighthouse soon, so we will be seeing a cascade any time now. Unfortunately HG and lighthouse are same shields, so I dont really expect to get that anymore. Well see tho, stranger things have happened. PN ->settler, whip. Calak + Quir -> barracks. Were still tech leader (except Monarchy). I trade rep. To Greece for Mon + 9 gold. Iroquois only other civ (excluding Korea who has nothing) w/o it so I get 68 gold from them for it. Switch to Mono in 11 at loss of 6 gpt, for now. All workers busy or have already moved. I take two off volcano cleanup, as CI is far more important right now. Copan -> settler. Hit enter.
IBT forest harvested near quir., missed that one, probably wasted a few shields there. Tlacopan archer kills our sword. Tex sword loses to our sword on a hill (2/4).
50 ad (1) Quir barracks-> worker. PN settler -> galley. We have no boats? Workers build road near Quir. Pull back 2/4 sword near Tlac. Move troops to block Hiawathas boys. Thats our city spot! Move volcano workers towards CI.
IBT Inca are building HG. Everyone wants that city spot, but well get it. Aztecs sending settler/spear pair. Opportunity for a couple more slaves?
70 ad (2) Copan settler -> pike. Bon. MI -> MI. Calak. Barr-> pike. Send Quir. Workers to CI. Our wounded sword will safely get away from Tlac. Send Copan settler to open spot in Incan Terr. (not sure if Ill get it, but if I do, could flip one or two cities for us.) Change Tikal to settler for potential autoraze during tula assault.
90 ad (3) Yax MI -> JT. Quir worker->aqueduct. Various unit movements, nothing noteworthy.
110 ad (4) nothing built this turn. I attack Aztec vet spear on hill with vet sword. Risky, I know but we win, get redlined, and get two more slaves. No offense from Aztecs since first turn. Now they send two swords through the mountains towards CI. Build city Attrition on city site ->spear. Various worker/troop movements. Beginning to position our assault force near tula.
IBT Incas demand Feudalism. I hold my breath and tell him to piss off. No war for now. Our window is narrowing for any assault against them.
130 ad (5) Tikal settler ->MI. Lag pike ->MI. We are currently at our limit for supported units. Attack reg sword on mtn w/ vet MI. We win, no damage. Attack reg. Sword on hill w/ vet. MI. We win, 2/4. Now losing 10 gpt. Move warrior to Ci for MP, drop luxury slider. No riots, now +2. Both CI and Yax are barely balanced. Need to watch happiness there.
IBT bad news x2. Our 2/4 MI on a hill gets attacked and killed by reg jag warrior, damn RNG!! Also Aztecs finish SoZ. Bad for two reasons. 1 were at war with them. 2 Makes Americans switch to HG.
150 ad (6) Yax JT ->MI. We attack vet archer on mtn w/ vet MI. We win and lose one bar.
IBT our vet. MI on mtn attacked by vet sword. Is redlined but wins and promotes. Now at 2/5 he is attacked by another vet sword and loses.
170 ad (7) Cop pike ->MI. Laz MI->MI. LV MI -> aqueduct. Our vet MI kills 2/4 sword, loses 1 bar. Our vet Mi kills vet Jag, loses 1 bar. Units now in position for assault next turn. Replacement settler can be there in 3, if need be.
IBT our vet MI is attacked by vet sword, wins and promotes. Now at 3/5. Our subjects put a nice set of stairs on the palace. Greeks start HG, well have it in 7.
190 ad (8) bon MI ->MI. Calak pike ->pike. Now for the fun part. Vet sword vs reg spear, wins but redlined. Vet sword vs. reg spear, loses, no damage. Vet MI vs. reg spear, wins, now 2/4 and we now have a source of incense. Immediately sue for peace. We get 7 gold plus 16 gpt! Now have an extra settler. Send him near tula, 1 NE of hills w/ gold.
210 ad nothing built. Have begun healing units and sending them towards Incas. Whether or not to attack will be up to Pindicator. CI now up to 20 spt, which leaves 5 turns till HG. Its gonna be close ..
230 ad (10) Yax MI -> market (up for debate). Quir Aque ->pike. Build city Cuello in Incan area, ->walls. Various movements.
Some closing thoughts: Monotheism in 1, suggest Theology next. If we get HG, should immediately start prebuild for sistines. We may want to build some city improvements as the last few sets of ten have been all military. We have several units available, but some need to be healed then brought to appropriate position. Of course we also need to connect the incense we workes so hard for as well.
At any rate, here it is, and go get em Pind!!
The Save
IBT forest harvested near quir., missed that one, probably wasted a few shields there. Tlacopan archer kills our sword. Tex sword loses to our sword on a hill (2/4).
50 ad (1) Quir barracks-> worker. PN settler -> galley. We have no boats? Workers build road near Quir. Pull back 2/4 sword near Tlac. Move troops to block Hiawathas boys. Thats our city spot! Move volcano workers towards CI.
IBT Inca are building HG. Everyone wants that city spot, but well get it. Aztecs sending settler/spear pair. Opportunity for a couple more slaves?
70 ad (2) Copan settler -> pike. Bon. MI -> MI. Calak. Barr-> pike. Send Quir. Workers to CI. Our wounded sword will safely get away from Tlac. Send Copan settler to open spot in Incan Terr. (not sure if Ill get it, but if I do, could flip one or two cities for us.) Change Tikal to settler for potential autoraze during tula assault.
90 ad (3) Yax MI -> JT. Quir worker->aqueduct. Various unit movements, nothing noteworthy.
110 ad (4) nothing built this turn. I attack Aztec vet spear on hill with vet sword. Risky, I know but we win, get redlined, and get two more slaves. No offense from Aztecs since first turn. Now they send two swords through the mountains towards CI. Build city Attrition on city site ->spear. Various worker/troop movements. Beginning to position our assault force near tula.
IBT Incas demand Feudalism. I hold my breath and tell him to piss off. No war for now. Our window is narrowing for any assault against them.
130 ad (5) Tikal settler ->MI. Lag pike ->MI. We are currently at our limit for supported units. Attack reg sword on mtn w/ vet MI. We win, no damage. Attack reg. Sword on hill w/ vet. MI. We win, 2/4. Now losing 10 gpt. Move warrior to Ci for MP, drop luxury slider. No riots, now +2. Both CI and Yax are barely balanced. Need to watch happiness there.
IBT bad news x2. Our 2/4 MI on a hill gets attacked and killed by reg jag warrior, damn RNG!! Also Aztecs finish SoZ. Bad for two reasons. 1 were at war with them. 2 Makes Americans switch to HG.
150 ad (6) Yax JT ->MI. We attack vet archer on mtn w/ vet MI. We win and lose one bar.
IBT our vet. MI on mtn attacked by vet sword. Is redlined but wins and promotes. Now at 2/5 he is attacked by another vet sword and loses.
170 ad (7) Cop pike ->MI. Laz MI->MI. LV MI -> aqueduct. Our vet MI kills 2/4 sword, loses 1 bar. Our vet Mi kills vet Jag, loses 1 bar. Units now in position for assault next turn. Replacement settler can be there in 3, if need be.
IBT our vet MI is attacked by vet sword, wins and promotes. Now at 3/5. Our subjects put a nice set of stairs on the palace. Greeks start HG, well have it in 7.
190 ad (8) bon MI ->MI. Calak pike ->pike. Now for the fun part. Vet sword vs reg spear, wins but redlined. Vet sword vs. reg spear, loses, no damage. Vet MI vs. reg spear, wins, now 2/4 and we now have a source of incense.
Immediately sue for peace. We get 7 gold plus 16 gpt! Now have an extra settler. Send him near tula, 1 NE of hills w/ gold. 210 ad nothing built. Have begun healing units and sending them towards Incas. Whether or not to attack will be up to Pindicator. CI now up to 20 spt, which leaves 5 turns till HG. Its gonna be close ..
230 ad (10) Yax MI -> market (up for debate). Quir Aque ->pike. Build city Cuello in Incan area, ->walls. Various movements.
Some closing thoughts: Monotheism in 1, suggest Theology next. If we get HG, should immediately start prebuild for sistines. We may want to build some city improvements as the last few sets of ten have been all military. We have several units available, but some need to be healed then brought to appropriate position. Of course we also need to connect the incense we workes so hard for as well.
At any rate, here it is, and go get em Pind!!
The Save
P
pindicator
Guest
"Got it"
Took a look at the save file and it seems like we're getting back on track. Hopefully we'll pick up that HG. Some things I did notice:
We have that Incense, but in order to hook it up we have to road over two mountain tiles. We can pick some up from Greece for 20 turns in the meantime for Dyes + 88g.
Germany knows Engineering; we can trade it plus 32g (all of their's) for Fuedalism, but my gut tells me we don't want to do this.
There are a couple of warriors, and a number of swordsmen that can be upgraded. Are the warriors just goign to be MPs that we don't want to upgrade (they are a little expensive at 90g apiece), but I have to think that we do want to upgrade the swordsmen at first chance.
Nothing else that grabbed my attention; CI almost is worked up for size 12, but those workers should be mining the mountains instead of the whatever they were doing on the grass (that won't help us out until we get hospitals).
Okay, I'll play tonight, as classes start tomorrow and I have a few errands I need to do in the interim; also, if others want to pick up the save and post their observations before I play, that'd be great as well.
Took a look at the save file and it seems like we're getting back on track. Hopefully we'll pick up that HG. Some things I did notice:
We have that Incense, but in order to hook it up we have to road over two mountain tiles. We can pick some up from Greece for 20 turns in the meantime for Dyes + 88g.
Germany knows Engineering; we can trade it plus 32g (all of their's) for Fuedalism, but my gut tells me we don't want to do this.
There are a couple of warriors, and a number of swordsmen that can be upgraded. Are the warriors just goign to be MPs that we don't want to upgrade (they are a little expensive at 90g apiece), but I have to think that we do want to upgrade the swordsmen at first chance.
Nothing else that grabbed my attention; CI almost is worked up for size 12, but those workers should be mining the mountains instead of the whatever they were doing on the grass (that won't help us out until we get hospitals).
Okay, I'll play tonight, as classes start tomorrow and I have a few errands I need to do in the interim; also, if others want to pick up the save and post their observations before I play, that'd be great as well.
SesnOfWthr
True Believer
Just a couple of notes --
The dyes deal will probably be fine, if we use two slaves on each mountain, it will take 9 turns for each road.
I would wait on the feud trade until we know if we got the HG or not as Sun Tzus will be the only wonder left.
I also felt the warrior upgrades were a bit steep, and the swordsmen were mostly out in the field during my turns.
As for CI, well I just went a bit overboard on the improvements, I guess.
The dyes deal will probably be fine, if we use two slaves on each mountain, it will take 9 turns for each road.
I would wait on the feud trade until we know if we got the HG or not as Sun Tzus will be the only wonder left.
I also felt the warrior upgrades were a bit steep, and the swordsmen were mostly out in the field during my turns.
As for CI, well I just went a bit overboard on the improvements, I guess.
M60A3TTS
Ex-treadhead
A relatively short conflict, and a little rep-hit, but all-in-all looking good. From here, suggest we finish HG in 4 with luck. If in fact that happens, time for a govt change, which would make the dyes deal a good idea. Everyone is Republic except for King Otto and Despot Kon. Well lose a little scientific ground on the others, but with the strongest military, should keep them wary of starting something. Theology next, that will put the Incan Oracle out of business. Start CI on pre-build market/cathedral to switch over to Sistine. Thats 30 turns @ 20 spt provided CI doesnt need entertainers in Republic. Or build the market to leverage the luxuries. Consider workers to Vegas or Yax to beef up production for Knights Templar pre-build. Well want something to counter Zeus should the Aztecs want a re-match. Send thanks to Abe for settling in the Incans northern border area. Funny that Monty didn't choose Monarchy. Would have that it played better to the miliaristic trait. For same reason, don't know that Otto would leave Monarchy for Feudalism, not that I'm liking to trade that right away, either.
P
pindicator
Guest
Okay, here I go on the turns (a little later than planned, but such is life sometimes). My pre-turn goals are:
1) Complete the Hanging Gardens in Chichén Itza.
2) Revolt into a Republic.
3) Bring Incense online, first "externally" via trade with Greece, and then "internally" by completing one half of the road to Tula.
4) Research a good chunk into Theology, and start a pre-build in CI for Sistine's immediately after revolt.
5) Continue to improve the countryside. This means more workers! We have 12 workers + 8 slaves (if I read the unit screen correctly) but with all the mountains and jungle we are going to need more. Lagartero looks to be a promising worker factory; I'll try to persue that.
Okay, I think that's about all... so here we go.
Turn 0, 230AD:
Trade for Incense from Greece; in return we ship Dyes + 88g.
Relations from Greece upgrade from Annoyed to Polite.
MM some cities to encourage growth without sacrificing (much) production.
Change Attrition from Galley to Harbor.
IBT: Numerous American, Greek, and Iroquois settler groups move as if they are leaving our territory. Don't let the door hit you on the way out!
Learn Monotheism, begin research on Theology due in 9 turns with the slider at 10/0/0. The Aztecs' tribute gold covers our expenses, so we do not lose any gold at full research.
WLTGI (Great Instigator?) Day in Bonapek; the joyful peasantry immediately begins work on pillars to show their affection to our governance over them.
Aztecs are building the Hanging Gardens.
Turn 1, 250AD:
Workers continue improvement of towns
Troops move about their automoves .... would be nice to know where they're going, especially that settler in the south. As it is I have someone to protect him and will settle him wherever he stops (if a suitable city location), due to that's just what I think Sesn had in mind.
IBT:
Americans disband a nearby worker... kind of looked funny
Lagartero: MI -> Worker. This city has good potential to be at least a 2-turn worker factory, and is far enough away from the (eventual) Inca front line to not offer much for troop support.
Turn 2, 260AD:
Keep following that settler.
Continue building military, however I do not think I will be attacking Inca this set of turns. My reasoning is that I do not believe we could move support in to Cuello in time to save it from the Inca counter-attack (and I'm a woeful pacifist, even when I should attack).
IBT:
Copán: MI -> MI.
Tikal: MI -> Pikemen (2 less turns, and I think we need some MP help in other towns).
Culture of Tula expands borders.
Boston (American) completes Great Lighthouse... this doesn't look good. Greeks switch to Hanging Gardens. Our HG is due next turn, though, so hopefully...
Turn 3. 270AD:
Settle Tulúm on the river by the gold mine in the south. Begins construction of Barracks.
IBT:
Chichén Itza: Hanging Gardens -> Cathedral (Sistine's pre-build).
Bonampak: MI -> MI. Moving another MI up to Cuello to help defend it; once defends are in place I will consider attacking Inca, though, that will also be near the end of my turn, so I will probably just defer that decision.
Lagartero: Worker -> Worker.
Lazapa: MI -> Courthouse.
Aztecs begin production of Sun Tzu's... so the cascade is alive and well... Inca, Greece, and Germany all also begin on Sun Tzu's.
Turn 4, 280AD:
Sell Korea Literature for 30g (all they had). I want them to help themselves back into the tech race a bit, if just to get another trading partner.
Had some problems going to the diplomacy screen (Shift-D) when used with workers, so I lost a few worker turns...
IBT:
Quiriguá: Pikeman -> MI.
Calakmul: Pikeman -> Courthouse.
Culture of Cuello expands, claiming the iron in the north.
Wiht our culture being double that of Inca's, Vilcabamba and Andahuaylas are more likely to flip to us... still, I'm not banking on that.
Turn 5, 290AD:
More worker improvement
IBT:
Lagartero: Worker -> Worker. Well, it's a 3-turn factory as of now.
Las Vegas: Aqueduct -> Library. (*Unsure of this... feel free to veto, next person)
Turn 6, 300AD:
Our lone catapult moves to Yaxchilán.
Slider to 9/1/0, Theo still in 3, but we make 8gpt now.
IBT:
Copán: Pikeman -> MI.
Tikal: Pikeman -> MI.
Turn 7, 310 AD:
Ooops, I almost forgot to revolt to republic. Think I'll do that now...Oh crap, we draw an 8 turn anarchy...
Turn 9?, 330AD:
Guess I missed a turn in there. It is late, but nothing happened of note that turn or this.
Turn 10, 340AD:
The section of road to Tulúm is finished. One more to go.
Okay, so that's that... 5 more turns on our anarchy, and then we can start butt kicking. I've started a library or two, but for the most part have only been buildilng up our military more, and we will have 61 units to support once Republic comes online.
If Inca or any other country decides to take advantage of our anarchy, we have about 4 MIs in Bonampak, 2 on the Dye square north of Yaxchilán, 2 in Cuello, a couple to the south near Azteca, and a few scattered about.
As far as tech goes, we are still number one. Aztecs, Inca, and Germans are up Engineering on us. America and Iroquois are down Fued, and we still hold a monopoly on Monotheism. It may be time to trade that soon, as once our revolution pulls through, Theology will only be 2-3 turns away.
As far as internal affairs go, currently am trying to set up Lagartero to be a 2-turn worker factory (we need them with all our jungles and mountains), but don't know if it will be possible until Republic comes online. A bunch of workers are mining the hills near Las Vegas, as I want to put the Knights Templar pre-build there. In fact, I recommend the Library being built at Las Vegas be changed to the FP to be used as the Knights Templar pre-build; we should be able to trade for it before it fills all those shields up. Which is a good reason not to trade Monotheism right now: keep our tech lead as long as possible until we see what path the AI has taken next; if one researches Mono, then trade it to as many as we want to so the odds are greater that one AI will research Chivalry for us. But I'm half asleep, so take those words with a grain of salt
Okay, bed time for me
. Class starts tomorrow at 9am PST.
Haha, almost forgot the save.
1) Complete the Hanging Gardens in Chichén Itza.
2) Revolt into a Republic.
3) Bring Incense online, first "externally" via trade with Greece, and then "internally" by completing one half of the road to Tula.
4) Research a good chunk into Theology, and start a pre-build in CI for Sistine's immediately after revolt.
5) Continue to improve the countryside. This means more workers! We have 12 workers + 8 slaves (if I read the unit screen correctly) but with all the mountains and jungle we are going to need more. Lagartero looks to be a promising worker factory; I'll try to persue that.
Okay, I think that's about all... so here we go.
Turn 0, 230AD:
Trade for Incense from Greece; in return we ship Dyes + 88g.
Relations from Greece upgrade from Annoyed to Polite.
MM some cities to encourage growth without sacrificing (much) production.
Change Attrition from Galley to Harbor.
IBT: Numerous American, Greek, and Iroquois settler groups move as if they are leaving our territory. Don't let the door hit you on the way out!
Learn Monotheism, begin research on Theology due in 9 turns with the slider at 10/0/0. The Aztecs' tribute gold covers our expenses, so we do not lose any gold at full research.
WLTGI (Great Instigator?) Day in Bonapek; the joyful peasantry immediately begins work on pillars to show their affection to our governance over them.
Aztecs are building the Hanging Gardens.
Turn 1, 250AD:
Workers continue improvement of towns
Troops move about their automoves .... would be nice to know where they're going, especially that settler in the south. As it is I have someone to protect him and will settle him wherever he stops (if a suitable city location), due to that's just what I think Sesn had in mind.
IBT:
Americans disband a nearby worker... kind of looked funny
Lagartero: MI -> Worker. This city has good potential to be at least a 2-turn worker factory, and is far enough away from the (eventual) Inca front line to not offer much for troop support.
Turn 2, 260AD:
Keep following that settler.
Continue building military, however I do not think I will be attacking Inca this set of turns. My reasoning is that I do not believe we could move support in to Cuello in time to save it from the Inca counter-attack (and I'm a woeful pacifist, even when I should attack).
IBT:
Copán: MI -> MI.
Tikal: MI -> Pikemen (2 less turns, and I think we need some MP help in other towns).
Culture of Tula expands borders.
Boston (American) completes Great Lighthouse... this doesn't look good. Greeks switch to Hanging Gardens. Our HG is due next turn, though, so hopefully...
Turn 3. 270AD:
Settle Tulúm on the river by the gold mine in the south. Begins construction of Barracks.
IBT:
Chichén Itza: Hanging Gardens
-> Cathedral (Sistine's pre-build).Bonampak: MI -> MI. Moving another MI up to Cuello to help defend it; once defends are in place I will consider attacking Inca, though, that will also be near the end of my turn, so I will probably just defer that decision.
Lagartero: Worker -> Worker.
Lazapa: MI -> Courthouse.
Aztecs begin production of Sun Tzu's... so the cascade is alive and well... Inca, Greece, and Germany all also begin on Sun Tzu's.
Turn 4, 280AD:
Sell Korea Literature for 30g (all they had). I want them to help themselves back into the tech race a bit, if just to get another trading partner.
Had some problems going to the diplomacy screen (Shift-D) when used with workers, so I lost a few worker turns...
IBT:
Quiriguá: Pikeman -> MI.
Calakmul: Pikeman -> Courthouse.
Culture of Cuello expands, claiming the iron in the north.
Wiht our culture being double that of Inca's, Vilcabamba and Andahuaylas are more likely to flip to us... still, I'm not banking on that.
Turn 5, 290AD:
More worker improvement
IBT:
Lagartero: Worker -> Worker. Well, it's a 3-turn factory as of now.
Las Vegas: Aqueduct -> Library. (*Unsure of this... feel free to veto, next person)
Turn 6, 300AD:
Our lone catapult moves to Yaxchilán.
Slider to 9/1/0, Theo still in 3, but we make 8gpt now.
IBT:
Copán: Pikeman -> MI.
Tikal: Pikeman -> MI.
Turn 7, 310 AD:
Ooops, I almost forgot to revolt to republic. Think I'll do that now...Oh crap, we draw an 8 turn anarchy...
Turn 9?, 330AD:
Guess I missed a turn in there. It is late, but nothing happened of note that turn or this.
Turn 10, 340AD:
The section of road to Tulúm is finished. One more to go.
Okay, so that's that... 5 more turns on our anarchy, and then we can start butt kicking. I've started a library or two, but for the most part have only been buildilng up our military more, and we will have 61 units to support once Republic comes online.
If Inca or any other country decides to take advantage of our anarchy, we have about 4 MIs in Bonampak, 2 on the Dye square north of Yaxchilán, 2 in Cuello, a couple to the south near Azteca, and a few scattered about.
As far as tech goes, we are still number one. Aztecs, Inca, and Germans are up Engineering on us. America and Iroquois are down Fued, and we still hold a monopoly on Monotheism. It may be time to trade that soon, as once our revolution pulls through, Theology will only be 2-3 turns away.
As far as internal affairs go, currently am trying to set up Lagartero to be a 2-turn worker factory (we need them with all our jungles and mountains), but don't know if it will be possible until Republic comes online. A bunch of workers are mining the hills near Las Vegas, as I want to put the Knights Templar pre-build there. In fact, I recommend the Library being built at Las Vegas be changed to the FP to be used as the Knights Templar pre-build; we should be able to trade for it before it fills all those shields up. Which is a good reason not to trade Monotheism right now: keep our tech lead as long as possible until we see what path the AI has taken next; if one researches Mono, then trade it to as many as we want to so the odds are greater that one AI will research Chivalry for us. But I'm half asleep, so take those words with a grain of salt
Okay, bed time for me
. Class starts tomorrow at 9am PST.Haha, almost forgot the save.
Similar threads
