Tachii
Procrastinator
RANK YOUR VOTES ON A SCALE OF 1 TO 10, WITH 1 BEING WORST AND 10 BEING BEST!
THE LIST:
THE LIST:
Spoiler :
Civilization Rankings! Part One: Original Civs
- Thread starter Stonecutter9
- Start date
Merciorum
Prince
The +2 Tourism is pretty useful, which is a reason to build it. Anyway, their UA is good again now. They are lethal for a culture game. Granted, the elephant doesn't fit in well, but go tall (or wide with late expansion) and you'll rarely if ever run into happiness problems. You can get some truly vast cities as India.
Tachii
Procrastinator
Vast cities huh... the thing is, they just have this rather odd happiness bonus. No food bonus or religion bonus or even enough cultural bonus to make them that "lethal" in a cultural game. And the tourism isn't there until after Flight, when that +2 tourism is miniscule at best. :| When you say India could go "wide" in late game, that pretty much mean any other civs could do so just as well, maybe even better.
They go obsolete, at the very latest, when you research Railroad. You get neither the production bonus nor the movement bonus of railroads from forests/jungles. And you're not saving a "ton" of tile maintenance. Let's say you have six cities, they're each three hexes apart, and you have enough forests in your territory that you only have to build half as many roads as you would otherwise. Congratulations, you're saving a whopping 9
per turn. Compare this, again, to the Carthaginian UA—or, better yet, the Inca one.Fair enough, but if you only have one city that's taking advantage of the Iroquois bonuses, you're getting killed. If the Longhouse in your arboreal wonderland is giving you +15
a turn and only costing you -5 (as Keirador explained), that's great—but if you have five other cities getting nothing or very little from their Longhouses, you're coming out behind. Imagine you've got a forested super-city with base production 50, working 15 forests (extremely unlikely, mind you). You've also got five smaller cities, each with base production 30, working an average of only one forest each. Super-city gets 15 extra from the Longhouse, loses 5 it'd otherwise have gotten from a Workshop. The smaller cities average 1 each from Longhouses, and lose 3 each by not have Workshops. Net production gain from Longhouses: 0. And that's a pretty optimistic scenario, having 20 workable forests with six cities!The Longhouse is bad.
It's been useless since G&K, and it remains useless. The other Swordsman UUs are better because they either give strong promotions that carry over (Kris) or because they're actually better than Pikemen (Legion).
Suicidekills
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2013
- Messages
- 52
They go obsolete, at the very latest, when you research Railroad. You get neither the production bonus nor the movement bonus of railroads from forests/jungles. And you're not saving a "ton" of tile maintenance. Let's say you have six cities, they're each three hexes apart, and you have enough forests in your territory that you only have to build half as many roads as you would otherwise. Congratulations, you're saving a whopping 9
Wow railroads? seriously? I dont know about you, but railroads are on the lower end of my priority list. Sure if u have two high production cities, connect them, but in that era I'm worried about getting other techs before railroads. Also I never said "ton" and ok let's use your example. Yes, you're only saving 9 gpt, which at that point of the game I think is pretty good but whatever, but you're also building city connections faster because you don't have to build as many roads and getting money from city connections faster. With Carthage you're cities have to be coastal to take advantage of their UA, and harbors are free but they still cost a 2 gpt maintenance.
Fair enough, but if you only have one city that's taking advantage of the Iroquois bonuses, you're getting killed. If the Longhouse in your arboreal wonderland is giving you +15
The Longhouse is bad.
I said "if you can't get at least one city to seriously take advantage of the Iroquois bonuses..." so what I'm saying is at the very least you should have one city getting a large bonus while your other cities will be getting a minor bonus, at the very least. Longhouses work like stone works and stables. If you have a lot of forests, it's definitely worth it to build the longhouse. If you don't, it shouldn't be a prioritized building. If you got one stone, are you gonna be building the stone works anytime soon?? Also you're making it sound like 10% extra production is a lot. If you're going wide, as I would recommend with the Iroquois, your cities aren't getting crazy production anyway. At the time you get the longhouse at most you're getting in your capital is 30 production maybe. which gives you 3 extra hammers with that 10%. Other cities might range from 10 to 20 or even less it depends. So on average I would say you're getting 1 to 2 extra hammers with the 10%, it's really not that much until later on. You might be forgetting we're talking about the Iroquois. Their advantages should be earlier on in the game.
I would say that's debatable and is that a fact that Mohawk warrior promotions don't carry over?? Because I'm pretty sure they do. And if you're saying the Mohawk warrior isn't strong then i disagree considering the entire Civ revolves around forests.
pyroflare77
King
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2010
- Messages
- 667
4 - America (Washington):
Sure, the ability and minuteman are nice, but they're really, really boring. They really need something new to entice me to actually play them.
10 - Arabia (Harun al-Rashid):
One of the best civs in the game. Ships of the Desert is useful, especially combined with a desert start bias for desert folklore and petra. The Bazaar is fantastic, and the Camel Knight is really good, too.
9 - China (Wu Zetian):
The ability is effective but simple. Paper Makers are very good buildings and can offset some early game gold issues. But those Chu-ko-nus are beastly.
7 - Egypt (Ramesses II):
Wonders wonders wonders. What do you mean they have other uniques? I'm building wonders over here.
9 - England (Elizabeth):
Both unique units are incredibly good, giving England domination over land and sea. The extra spy actually matters in BNW, because you can have a diplomat and a normal spy, or two diplomats if you want.
7 - France (Napoleon):
Chateaus are pretty nice. Their new ability isn't too great, but it's effective in what it does. You just have to get the wonders first.
2 - Germany (Bismarck):
Really only fun to play in the early parts of the game when you can amass a barbarian army. Everything gets pretty boring medieval era on.
8 - Greece (Alexander):
Kind of plain with the two units that don't do anything except are stronger. Their ability is also pretty plain, but it's certainly effective for any play style.
4 - India (Gandhi):
Not a fan of the unit and building. India would be a lot lower, but BNW helped out by making their ability useful again. Still not really impressive.
3 - Japan (Oda Nobunaga):
Yawn.
8 - Persia (Darius I):
Immortals have a great promotion, Satrap Courts are great, and their ability makes you want to set things up to chain together long golden ages. Pretty fun and pretty useful.
7 - Rome (Augustus Caesar):
Simple, but effective. Their ability lets you build up your empire to focus on your victory type, with the Legion and Ballista there if you want to war.
6 - Russia (Catherine):
Another simple but effective civ. Unlike Rome, Russia is geared more towards domination than anything else.
8 - Siam (Ramkhamhaeng):
Pretty fun civ to play as. The UA is really, really nice.
6 - Songhai (Askia):
Their UA will offset early game gold issues, which is always a nice thing. Mud Pyramid Mosques are a very good building. Mandekalu Cavalry aren't as good as I'd thought they'd be.
9 - The Aztecs (Montezuma):
A very fun civ to play as. Get your cities very tall while forming a smaller puppet empire. Farm barbarians and enemy civs for culture.
7 - The Iroquois (Hiawatha):
I'd like them more if their movement would apply to all forests and jungles. Mohawk Warriors are pretty beastly.
6 - The Ottomans (Suleiman):
Another civ with land and sea domination, but the land domination part has to wait until later in the game.
Sure, the ability and minuteman are nice, but they're really, really boring. They really need something new to entice me to actually play them.
10 - Arabia (Harun al-Rashid):
One of the best civs in the game. Ships of the Desert is useful, especially combined with a desert start bias for desert folklore and petra. The Bazaar is fantastic, and the Camel Knight is really good, too.
9 - China (Wu Zetian):
The ability is effective but simple. Paper Makers are very good buildings and can offset some early game gold issues. But those Chu-ko-nus are beastly.
7 - Egypt (Ramesses II):
Wonders wonders wonders. What do you mean they have other uniques? I'm building wonders over here.
9 - England (Elizabeth):
Both unique units are incredibly good, giving England domination over land and sea. The extra spy actually matters in BNW, because you can have a diplomat and a normal spy, or two diplomats if you want.
7 - France (Napoleon):
Chateaus are pretty nice. Their new ability isn't too great, but it's effective in what it does. You just have to get the wonders first.
2 - Germany (Bismarck):
Really only fun to play in the early parts of the game when you can amass a barbarian army. Everything gets pretty boring medieval era on.
8 - Greece (Alexander):
Kind of plain with the two units that don't do anything except are stronger. Their ability is also pretty plain, but it's certainly effective for any play style.
4 - India (Gandhi):
Not a fan of the unit and building. India would be a lot lower, but BNW helped out by making their ability useful again. Still not really impressive.
3 - Japan (Oda Nobunaga):
Yawn.
8 - Persia (Darius I):
Immortals have a great promotion, Satrap Courts are great, and their ability makes you want to set things up to chain together long golden ages. Pretty fun and pretty useful.
7 - Rome (Augustus Caesar):
Simple, but effective. Their ability lets you build up your empire to focus on your victory type, with the Legion and Ballista there if you want to war.
6 - Russia (Catherine):
Another simple but effective civ. Unlike Rome, Russia is geared more towards domination than anything else.
8 - Siam (Ramkhamhaeng):
Pretty fun civ to play as. The UA is really, really nice.
6 - Songhai (Askia):
Their UA will offset early game gold issues, which is always a nice thing. Mud Pyramid Mosques are a very good building. Mandekalu Cavalry aren't as good as I'd thought they'd be.
9 - The Aztecs (Montezuma):
A very fun civ to play as. Get your cities very tall while forming a smaller puppet empire. Farm barbarians and enemy civs for culture.
7 - The Iroquois (Hiawatha):
I'd like them more if their movement would apply to all forests and jungles. Mohawk Warriors are pretty beastly.
6 - The Ottomans (Suleiman):
Another civ with land and sea domination, but the land domination part has to wait until later in the game.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2010
- Messages
- 16,937
5 - America:
I respect the UA, but I find it boring. The UUs are nice. Ultimately it's not a civ that fills me with a passion for the game.
10 - Arabia:
I love economic civs, and Arabia is one of the best. And the UU is excellent to boot.
6 - China:
Paper Makers are quite nice and the UU is particularly great, but the UA is so warmongerish that I almost never play them.
8 - Egypt:
I like Egypt. At first I was skeptical about the UB, but it has won me over. The civ is good both wide and tall.
7 - England:
England has good UUs and a decent UA. It's one of the few civs that drive me to warmonger. I just wish it had an economic advantage.
7 - France:
I haven't tried it yet, but I like UIs. The UA seems more notional at higher difficulties.
3 - Germany:
I find Germany to be sadly boring. Warmongering is one dimensional.
6 - Greece:
I don't find much synergy in the civ, and I just plain don't like the UUs. Because combat is so siege-oriented, having a horse UU and an anti-horse UU in the same era seems like a waste. The UA is probably the best part to me.
5 - India:
I haven't tried India since BNW, but I'm betting internal TRs have boosted them a few points. The UU has always been decent, and the UB has a culture victory advantage now.
3 - Japan:
See Germany
7 - Persia:
The UU is good, and the UB and UA have some nice synergy. The only thing I don't care for is juggling Golden Ages.
6 - Rome:
I find the UA to be on the dull side. The UUs have an issue similar to Greece where all your power is in one era, which annoys me, however they do work well together when you need to pick off a few cities.
6 - Russia:
I dislike Russia's start bias and the UB. I don't warmonger enough to have a barracks in each city, so the UB seems like a third wheel rather than a useful feature.
7 - Siam:
It's a good civ all the way around. I do get a bit bored with it though.
8 - Songhai:
The UA is so nice. I can hunt barbs to fund some incredible expansion in the early game. The UB is good too. It helps overcome the sopol penalty to wide civs.
5 - The Aztecs:
I know other people like them, but I dislike them. I think it's mostly the low-production jungle starts.
7 - The Iroquois:
It's a good civ with nice synergy based on terrain. The only problem is when you run out of forest.
8 - The Ottomans:
The Ottomans are another civ that actually make me want to warmonger. The Sipahi is one of the few good Lancer replacements and the Janissary is quite nice.
I respect the UA, but I find it boring. The UUs are nice. Ultimately it's not a civ that fills me with a passion for the game.
10 - Arabia:
I love economic civs, and Arabia is one of the best. And the UU is excellent to boot.
6 - China:
Paper Makers are quite nice and the UU is particularly great, but the UA is so warmongerish that I almost never play them.
8 - Egypt:
I like Egypt. At first I was skeptical about the UB, but it has won me over. The civ is good both wide and tall.
7 - England:
England has good UUs and a decent UA. It's one of the few civs that drive me to warmonger. I just wish it had an economic advantage.
7 - France:
I haven't tried it yet, but I like UIs. The UA seems more notional at higher difficulties.
3 - Germany:
I find Germany to be sadly boring. Warmongering is one dimensional.
6 - Greece:
I don't find much synergy in the civ, and I just plain don't like the UUs. Because combat is so siege-oriented, having a horse UU and an anti-horse UU in the same era seems like a waste. The UA is probably the best part to me.
5 - India:
I haven't tried India since BNW, but I'm betting internal TRs have boosted them a few points. The UU has always been decent, and the UB has a culture victory advantage now.
3 - Japan:
See Germany
7 - Persia:
The UU is good, and the UB and UA have some nice synergy. The only thing I don't care for is juggling Golden Ages.
6 - Rome:
I find the UA to be on the dull side. The UUs have an issue similar to Greece where all your power is in one era, which annoys me, however they do work well together when you need to pick off a few cities.
6 - Russia:
I dislike Russia's start bias and the UB. I don't warmonger enough to have a barracks in each city, so the UB seems like a third wheel rather than a useful feature.
7 - Siam:
It's a good civ all the way around. I do get a bit bored with it though.
8 - Songhai:
The UA is so nice. I can hunt barbs to fund some incredible expansion in the early game. The UB is good too. It helps overcome the sopol penalty to wide civs.
5 - The Aztecs:
I know other people like them, but I dislike them. I think it's mostly the low-production jungle starts.
7 - The Iroquois:
It's a good civ with nice synergy based on terrain. The only problem is when you run out of forest.
8 - The Ottomans:
The Ottomans are another civ that actually make me want to warmonger. The Sipahi is one of the few good Lancer replacements and the Janissary is quite nice.
10 - China (Wu Zetian):
BNW has actually made China stronger. The paper maker is now extremely good with gold being more scarce. The Chukonu is still as strong as ever to the point of being OP. The stronger generals combine with Chukonu to be a practically unstoppable force along with paper makers fueling the science to get them quickly. If China does run into a stalemate situation despite their massive Chukonu & GG advantage they will earn more generals to win citadel wars. This civ can not be rated high enough.
10 - Arabia (Harun al-Rashid):
-The Camel Archer is 100% OP to the point that they are a free win unless your opponent has GW or extremely rough terrain.
-The Bazaar is very good providing more gold than a market and copying luxuries for more happiness from trading. 2 essentials to winning wars.
-Their UA is excellent for acquiring early money to support an army or create early infrastructure/science buildings.
-Tendancy to spawn near desert is extremely strong with DFL pantheon and Petra bonuses being incredible advantages.
-Double oil in the late game is clutch and can win conflicts in itself.
8 - Russia (Catherine):
-Siberian Riches is their shining quality. Extra production and strategic resources. Production is king when at war. Production is king when building wonders. Production is King when creating infrastructure. Extra horses can make a big difference when in a war as well.
-The Cossack is a very strong UU, Cavalry are always a staple in Industrial era wars. Great for taking out Artillery and mopping up any damaged unit on the field.
-The Krepost is a good UB giving more territory when made. Snagging far reaching luxuries and resources with your borders can make them well worth it.
8 - Egypt (Ramesses II):
-The war chariot is an extremely strong UU due to chariot archers being the bulk of many early armies. Egypt can successfully skip composites while at war. No need for horses makes them incredibly spammable as well.
-A 20% bonus when building wonders can be very advantageous at many points in the game. The ability in itself can cause others to shy away from wonders that may be essential to gaining an edge on the competition.
- The burial tomb is an incredible UB. No maintenance gives them free faith and +2 happiness per city makes Egypt an extremely good city spammer.
8 - Greece (Alexander):
-Their ability to gain city state influence is extremely useful at all points of the game. Allows for repeated tributes to be earned when at war or when money is tight. Allows them to gain many allies for the world congress later in the game. CS's give great rewards in themselves.
-The Companion Cavalry is an incredible early advantage in war or scouting. Early battles with Greece while this UU is strong should be avoided at all cost.
- The Hoplite combines with the CC to make Greece a force to be reckoned with early in the game. They are great damage sponges and can decimate enemy horse men keeping your CC and archery units safe.
7.5 - England (Elizabeth):
-The Longbow is possibly the most powerful UU in the game. Their only competition is the Camel Archer. If you can mass longbows early in the game world domination is eminent.
-The ship of the line is an extremely powerful UU in any game involving naval battles of any sort. They can be strong even on Pangea maps.
-An extra spy is very useful however, not game changing. +2 movement to naval units is also very strong however can be useless in many cases.
-I rated England a mere 7.5 due to their weak early game. If they can survive to get longbows/ship of the line they will however have a distinct advantage over everyone else.
7 - Persia (Darius I):
- 50% longer golden ages and +1 unit movement during them is Persia's shining star. Longer golden ages will give a boost to production, gold and culture which is useful at all points in the game. The +1 movement & combat bonus can lead to war supremacy in any era.
-Their UB is good, however not game changing.
-The Immortal is an OK UU. Not amazing. Units often do not get a chance to heal in battle.
7 -The Aztecs (Montezuma):
-The floating gardens can give the Aztecs a great advantage allowing them to grow much faster than others. Growth leads to Science, Production & Gold in abundance.
-Sacrificial Captives is a solid ability that can allow the Aztecs to gain a great deal of culture. Especially in games with barbs to farm.
-Jaguars are a decent UU allowing for quick scouting through jungle/forest to find ruins and gain tribute from CS early in the game. Their bonus in forest and jungle can be very strong as well, especially if the Jaguars are upgraded to stronger units later in the game.
6.5 - The Iroquois (Hiawatha):
-The Mohawk Warrior is a good UU being very strong in forest & jungle and not requiring iron makes it easily obtainable and spammable. It's bonuses can also be passed on to later generations when upgraded.
- Great Warpath is a good ability however situational. If The Iroquois don't spawn with a lot of forest in the right locations it can be useless.
-The longhouse can be an amazing hammer boost or a total flop depending upon your terrain. This UB is mediocre since it is so situational and in some cases can be worse than the standard building if you are lacking forested tiles.
6.5 - Rome (Augustus Caesar):
+25% Production towards buildings already in the capital is a solid ability that is often overlooked. Do not underestimate the strength of this ability.
- The Ballista is extremely good at taking down cities in the early game. Very powerful war machine!
-The Legion is a strong early war unit as well. Requiring iron can make it difficult to field some times though. Being able to construct roads is also an interesting ability that is often overlooked.
6 - Germany (Bismarck):
-Germany's ability to field a larger army than others without losing gold is a somewhat mediocre characteristic.The other half of their ability is almost useless.
-The Landsknecht is a very strong UU giving Germany the ability to clog the battle field with high HP Pikemen. They can build these very quick and support a large number of them due to their UA.
-Let's face it, we never see the Panzer in battle because it comes out so late in the game. It however is extremely powerful for its era.
5 - Siam (Ramkhamhaeng):
Siam's ability to gain 50% more rewards form CS is mediocre at best. IMO
-The Naresuan Elephant is a strong UU that is difficult to kill.
-The Wat is a mediocre UB although it can be strong if you get them for free using the tradition policy Legalism.
5 - - Japan (Oda Nobunaga):
Japan's UA for units to always deal damage as if they had full health is very strong in combat. They however have no other characteristics to help them out during the game.
-The Samurai is a powerful melee unit, however I feel that going honor is a necessity for them to be effective. Xbow armies are prevalent at this time in the game and will usually tear up melee units easily.
-The Zero is practically never seen in combat and fighters in general are not a good unit to field more than 1 of.
4 - America (Washington):
+1 sight range can be useful when at war or when scouting for ruins and city states however is not very strong until artillery are in play. The ability to buy tiles at a 50% discount can also be useful however is not very strong either.
-America's start bias being near a river was very strong in until BNW made rivers give no money. Now it is not particularly useful.
-The Minuteman is a descent UU however is not stronger than a normal musket.
-The B17 is a very strong UU however comes out very late in the game and so is rarely seen.
3 - France (Napoleon):
BNW Severely nerfed France into almost uselessness. The Chateau can be helpful for generating culture and gold however it is not very powerful until late in the game.
-The Musketeer is a strong UU, making it the strongest unit in the game until the Industrial era. The Musketeer was never France's shining glory though.
2.5 - The Ottomans (Suleiman):
-The Janissary and Sipahi are solid UU's however can not make up for a total lack of other abilities being useful for this civ.
- Fielding a navy cheaply can be strong but the ability is far too situational to count for much.
2 - - Songhai (Askia):
This Civ practically has no useful abilities. Its UU is not stronger and is only better at attacking cities. It's UB is mediocre at best if not useless. Free temples is their best ability...
0 - India (Ghandi):
-Their UA is worse than having no AU at all. It is nearly impossible to build more than a few cities with this civ. Winning wars is almost pointless with this civ since you can't take cities without taking a massive happiness hit. Without massive growth tiles this civ is 100% useless.
-Their UU is quite strong however, it is almost pointless to field an army if you can not take cities and reap the benefits of war.
-Their UB is below mediocre at best, useless at worst.
BNW has actually made China stronger. The paper maker is now extremely good with gold being more scarce. The Chukonu is still as strong as ever to the point of being OP. The stronger generals combine with Chukonu to be a practically unstoppable force along with paper makers fueling the science to get them quickly. If China does run into a stalemate situation despite their massive Chukonu & GG advantage they will earn more generals to win citadel wars. This civ can not be rated high enough.
10 - Arabia (Harun al-Rashid):
-The Camel Archer is 100% OP to the point that they are a free win unless your opponent has GW or extremely rough terrain.
-The Bazaar is very good providing more gold than a market and copying luxuries for more happiness from trading. 2 essentials to winning wars.
-Their UA is excellent for acquiring early money to support an army or create early infrastructure/science buildings.
-Tendancy to spawn near desert is extremely strong with DFL pantheon and Petra bonuses being incredible advantages.
-Double oil in the late game is clutch and can win conflicts in itself.
8 - Russia (Catherine):
-Siberian Riches is their shining quality. Extra production and strategic resources. Production is king when at war. Production is king when building wonders. Production is King when creating infrastructure. Extra horses can make a big difference when in a war as well.
-The Cossack is a very strong UU, Cavalry are always a staple in Industrial era wars. Great for taking out Artillery and mopping up any damaged unit on the field.
-The Krepost is a good UB giving more territory when made. Snagging far reaching luxuries and resources with your borders can make them well worth it.
8 - Egypt (Ramesses II):
-The war chariot is an extremely strong UU due to chariot archers being the bulk of many early armies. Egypt can successfully skip composites while at war. No need for horses makes them incredibly spammable as well.
-A 20% bonus when building wonders can be very advantageous at many points in the game. The ability in itself can cause others to shy away from wonders that may be essential to gaining an edge on the competition.
- The burial tomb is an incredible UB. No maintenance gives them free faith and +2 happiness per city makes Egypt an extremely good city spammer.
8 - Greece (Alexander):
-Their ability to gain city state influence is extremely useful at all points of the game. Allows for repeated tributes to be earned when at war or when money is tight. Allows them to gain many allies for the world congress later in the game. CS's give great rewards in themselves.
-The Companion Cavalry is an incredible early advantage in war or scouting. Early battles with Greece while this UU is strong should be avoided at all cost.
- The Hoplite combines with the CC to make Greece a force to be reckoned with early in the game. They are great damage sponges and can decimate enemy horse men keeping your CC and archery units safe.
7.5 - England (Elizabeth):
-The Longbow is possibly the most powerful UU in the game. Their only competition is the Camel Archer. If you can mass longbows early in the game world domination is eminent.
-The ship of the line is an extremely powerful UU in any game involving naval battles of any sort. They can be strong even on Pangea maps.
-An extra spy is very useful however, not game changing. +2 movement to naval units is also very strong however can be useless in many cases.
-I rated England a mere 7.5 due to their weak early game. If they can survive to get longbows/ship of the line they will however have a distinct advantage over everyone else.
7 - Persia (Darius I):
- 50% longer golden ages and +1 unit movement during them is Persia's shining star. Longer golden ages will give a boost to production, gold and culture which is useful at all points in the game. The +1 movement & combat bonus can lead to war supremacy in any era.
-Their UB is good, however not game changing.
-The Immortal is an OK UU. Not amazing. Units often do not get a chance to heal in battle.
7 -The Aztecs (Montezuma):
-The floating gardens can give the Aztecs a great advantage allowing them to grow much faster than others. Growth leads to Science, Production & Gold in abundance.
-Sacrificial Captives is a solid ability that can allow the Aztecs to gain a great deal of culture. Especially in games with barbs to farm.
-Jaguars are a decent UU allowing for quick scouting through jungle/forest to find ruins and gain tribute from CS early in the game. Their bonus in forest and jungle can be very strong as well, especially if the Jaguars are upgraded to stronger units later in the game.
6.5 - The Iroquois (Hiawatha):
-The Mohawk Warrior is a good UU being very strong in forest & jungle and not requiring iron makes it easily obtainable and spammable. It's bonuses can also be passed on to later generations when upgraded.
- Great Warpath is a good ability however situational. If The Iroquois don't spawn with a lot of forest in the right locations it can be useless.
-The longhouse can be an amazing hammer boost or a total flop depending upon your terrain. This UB is mediocre since it is so situational and in some cases can be worse than the standard building if you are lacking forested tiles.
6.5 - Rome (Augustus Caesar):
+25% Production towards buildings already in the capital is a solid ability that is often overlooked. Do not underestimate the strength of this ability.
- The Ballista is extremely good at taking down cities in the early game. Very powerful war machine!
-The Legion is a strong early war unit as well. Requiring iron can make it difficult to field some times though. Being able to construct roads is also an interesting ability that is often overlooked.
6 - Germany (Bismarck):
-Germany's ability to field a larger army than others without losing gold is a somewhat mediocre characteristic.The other half of their ability is almost useless.
-The Landsknecht is a very strong UU giving Germany the ability to clog the battle field with high HP Pikemen. They can build these very quick and support a large number of them due to their UA.
-Let's face it, we never see the Panzer in battle because it comes out so late in the game. It however is extremely powerful for its era.
5 - Siam (Ramkhamhaeng):
Siam's ability to gain 50% more rewards form CS is mediocre at best. IMO
-The Naresuan Elephant is a strong UU that is difficult to kill.
-The Wat is a mediocre UB although it can be strong if you get them for free using the tradition policy Legalism.
5 - - Japan (Oda Nobunaga):
Japan's UA for units to always deal damage as if they had full health is very strong in combat. They however have no other characteristics to help them out during the game.
-The Samurai is a powerful melee unit, however I feel that going honor is a necessity for them to be effective. Xbow armies are prevalent at this time in the game and will usually tear up melee units easily.
-The Zero is practically never seen in combat and fighters in general are not a good unit to field more than 1 of.
4 - America (Washington):
+1 sight range can be useful when at war or when scouting for ruins and city states however is not very strong until artillery are in play. The ability to buy tiles at a 50% discount can also be useful however is not very strong either.
-America's start bias being near a river was very strong in until BNW made rivers give no money. Now it is not particularly useful.
-The Minuteman is a descent UU however is not stronger than a normal musket.
-The B17 is a very strong UU however comes out very late in the game and so is rarely seen.
3 - France (Napoleon):
BNW Severely nerfed France into almost uselessness. The Chateau can be helpful for generating culture and gold however it is not very powerful until late in the game.
-The Musketeer is a strong UU, making it the strongest unit in the game until the Industrial era. The Musketeer was never France's shining glory though.
2.5 - The Ottomans (Suleiman):
-The Janissary and Sipahi are solid UU's however can not make up for a total lack of other abilities being useful for this civ.
- Fielding a navy cheaply can be strong but the ability is far too situational to count for much.
2 - - Songhai (Askia):
This Civ practically has no useful abilities. Its UU is not stronger and is only better at attacking cities. It's UB is mediocre at best if not useless. Free temples is their best ability...
0 - India (Ghandi):
-Their UA is worse than having no AU at all. It is nearly impossible to build more than a few cities with this civ. Winning wars is almost pointless with this civ since you can't take cities without taking a massive happiness hit. Without massive growth tiles this civ is 100% useless.
-Their UU is quite strong however, it is almost pointless to field an army if you can not take cities and reap the benefits of war.
-Their UB is below mediocre at best, useless at worst.
Doktor Vic Tim
King
Well, here's my list. And the little nicknames are just for fun and pun and rhyme.
3 America (Washington the Washingclothes): +1 sight is nice at some times, but generally the UA feels boring. They could be a good vanilla civ to play around with the first few times, but the Minute man is so so and the B-17 seems to come a bit too late.
9 Arabia (Harun al-Rashid): He doesn't get a fancy nickname. He already has two super fancy Uniques. They can make a lot of money by the late early game (or is it early mid game?), albeit not as much as Venice, but more by diplomatic trading. This can in turn fund their Camel Archers which can be quite crazy.
8 China (Wu the Boo Zetian): They can be really fun to play in domination. The Paper Maker really shines in the early game thanks to the lack of early game gold. The Chu-Ko-Nu can be really good, and it can gain experience quickly enough should you lose your older ranged units due to some careless mishap. The lesser strength is a bit concerning, but that is no matter when they become Gatlings. Extra GGs mean more opportunities for border wars.
8 Egypt (Ramesses the Tramsses II): With Marble only giving boost to Ancient and Classical wonders, Egypt's UA became a little more strong and unique. A lot of wonders helps shaping an empire with more ease, at the cost of possibly making more enemies, and also helps a cultural victory. War Chariot feels a bit weird with no horse requirement, but the UB allows for a wider empire
4-7 England (Elizabeth the 'Tater Hater I): Depending on map, naturally. Speedy navy and good early exploration with the +2 movement that's included in embarked movements. The extra spy can help in defense or stealing more technology. SoTL is as crazy as ever, and the Longbowman is maybe so-so. Sure it has the nice range, but with no indirect fire, it might become moot. But the upside is you can trai your archers to get Logistics and not worry about the range.
6 France (Napoleon the Napoleon): City of lights can be really strong and a dangerous contender in a CV. But it requires him to defend his capitol with everything he's got, or his UA kinda goes away, I think. Highly dependent on getting those slot wonders first, and if he misses out on those, it's time to expand and fire those museums up for Archaeology. Musketeer looks strong at first glance, and might be made use of sometimes.
6 Greece (Alexander the Slander): UA got a boost in terms of WC (Not Water Closet) which helps having the hold on city states. Due to early war difficulties the UUs doesn't really shine as much, sadly. Still, with Patronage and possibly even Papal Primacy belief (and spreading religion to as many CS you can) you can establish a firm grip on a lot of them.
2 Germany (Bismarck the Busymarck): Obsolete with the discovery of the Zulus and Assyrians. UA doesn't offer much else other than a free "Warrior" and a little extra money. And it's still random. Sure, you've got more active barbarians, but it doesn't help Germany's case. Landsknechts are spammable, and can help you with some stuff if you beeline Civil Service, and Panzers are a bit late, but the movement bonus is Obsoleted by the Comanche's +1 movement promotion.
3 Japan (Oda the Yoda Nobunanga): I'm not that much of a warmonger, so generally war civs aren't too attractive to me. I heard Japan's UA used to be much stronger in the vanilla game, but has gotten weaker due to not being true to its word. Samurai is fun to use at times, but the Zero is just crap. Worst part is that the Zero is going to stick around because we must have WWII civs...
7 (10 in G&K multiplayer) Persia (Darius the Daring I): Strong golden ages and that extra movement for everything can sometimes save wars and time. Immortals are tanky enough when the come out and the Satrap Court has good synergy with the UA. In G&K multplayer the GA glitch is still around, keeping the requirement at 500 no matter how many GA's you've had.
6 Rome (Augustus Caesar the Piecer): Somewhat boring UA, but can be useful at times if you have a strong capital. Legions are still strong, but if you don't get any iron in those damned no-iron starts, there goes your strong versatile swordsman. Ballista can have its uses at times.
3 India (Gandhi the Nuke): UA hurts early game. I'd almost want the Capital to be immune to the double unhappiness, but that would probably be exploited. War elephants can be useful sometimes, being less vulnerable to melee attacks, but all in all, nothing special. Mughal fort is just, what? They just feel boring
7 Siam (Ramkhamhaeng the Hamhamhaeng): With city states becoming mor eimportant to get, li'l Ramky might have trouble seizing them than before. Still, he makes good use of them and gives him a lot of versatility. His dumb Elephant is still dumb-powerful-dumb and he's apparently all about the exploits. Exploit Legalism for free Wats, and exploit Jesuit Education for double universities. Though the latter should be fixed, the cultural victory is harder to achieve since it relies less on culture. But on the flipside he can defend against it better while going for the DV.
7 The Aztecs (Montezuma the Puma): Really tall civ. Combined with Jungle bias, you'll be sure to grow quite fast. Jaguars move fast through forest, which makes them half scouts, and the UA offers good early culture from Barbarians thanks to the more frequent Barbies.
7 Songhai (Askia the Baskia): Triple gold is great early game, and if you sack an Egyptioan city with a Burial Tomb in it, just look at that delicious 6x gold! Their UB stil lgives the same Culture yield, so it will help a little bit with those policies, and the UU is somewhat useful for supporting your ranged units well enough.
6-8 The Iroquois (Hiawatha the Watcher): With a good foresty start, you can get some free trade routes and good mobility. If you get unlucky, well, You need to work with what you get. Sometimes you can end up with the only forest tiles covering luxuries. UB can provide a lot of raw production that will shoot through the skies with Factories (And that's a FACT!...ory) and Religious Community if you manage to snag it, which can make your city a good unit producing factory. Mhoawks are good, especially with those damned no-iron starts.
6 The Ottmans (Suleiman the Magnificent Man of Otto): With the buffed UA all your melee ships are pirates, and you can amass a big enough navy to transport your UUs. Janissary may be a Musket, but can be useful enough thanks to their healing. And with the sipahi you can be a real jerk and pillage everything.
3 America (Washington the Washingclothes): +1 sight is nice at some times, but generally the UA feels boring. They could be a good vanilla civ to play around with the first few times, but the Minute man is so so and the B-17 seems to come a bit too late.
9 Arabia (Harun al-Rashid): He doesn't get a fancy nickname. He already has two super fancy Uniques. They can make a lot of money by the late early game (or is it early mid game?), albeit not as much as Venice, but more by diplomatic trading. This can in turn fund their Camel Archers which can be quite crazy.
8 China (Wu the Boo Zetian): They can be really fun to play in domination. The Paper Maker really shines in the early game thanks to the lack of early game gold. The Chu-Ko-Nu can be really good, and it can gain experience quickly enough should you lose your older ranged units due to some careless mishap. The lesser strength is a bit concerning, but that is no matter when they become Gatlings. Extra GGs mean more opportunities for border wars.
8 Egypt (Ramesses the Tramsses II): With Marble only giving boost to Ancient and Classical wonders, Egypt's UA became a little more strong and unique. A lot of wonders helps shaping an empire with more ease, at the cost of possibly making more enemies, and also helps a cultural victory. War Chariot feels a bit weird with no horse requirement, but the UB allows for a wider empire
4-7 England (Elizabeth the 'Tater Hater I): Depending on map, naturally. Speedy navy and good early exploration with the +2 movement that's included in embarked movements. The extra spy can help in defense or stealing more technology. SoTL is as crazy as ever, and the Longbowman is maybe so-so. Sure it has the nice range, but with no indirect fire, it might become moot. But the upside is you can trai your archers to get Logistics and not worry about the range.
6 France (Napoleon the Napoleon): City of lights can be really strong and a dangerous contender in a CV. But it requires him to defend his capitol with everything he's got, or his UA kinda goes away, I think. Highly dependent on getting those slot wonders first, and if he misses out on those, it's time to expand and fire those museums up for Archaeology. Musketeer looks strong at first glance, and might be made use of sometimes.
6 Greece (Alexander the Slander): UA got a boost in terms of WC (Not Water Closet) which helps having the hold on city states. Due to early war difficulties the UUs doesn't really shine as much, sadly. Still, with Patronage and possibly even Papal Primacy belief (and spreading religion to as many CS you can) you can establish a firm grip on a lot of them.
2 Germany (Bismarck the Busymarck): Obsolete with the discovery of the Zulus and Assyrians. UA doesn't offer much else other than a free "Warrior" and a little extra money. And it's still random. Sure, you've got more active barbarians, but it doesn't help Germany's case. Landsknechts are spammable, and can help you with some stuff if you beeline Civil Service, and Panzers are a bit late, but the movement bonus is Obsoleted by the Comanche's +1 movement promotion.
3 Japan (Oda the Yoda Nobunanga): I'm not that much of a warmonger, so generally war civs aren't too attractive to me. I heard Japan's UA used to be much stronger in the vanilla game, but has gotten weaker due to not being true to its word. Samurai is fun to use at times, but the Zero is just crap. Worst part is that the Zero is going to stick around because we must have WWII civs...
7 (10 in G&K multiplayer) Persia (Darius the Daring I): Strong golden ages and that extra movement for everything can sometimes save wars and time. Immortals are tanky enough when the come out and the Satrap Court has good synergy with the UA. In G&K multplayer the GA glitch is still around, keeping the requirement at 500 no matter how many GA's you've had.
6 Rome (Augustus Caesar the Piecer): Somewhat boring UA, but can be useful at times if you have a strong capital. Legions are still strong, but if you don't get any iron in those damned no-iron starts, there goes your strong versatile swordsman. Ballista can have its uses at times.
3 India (Gandhi the Nuke): UA hurts early game. I'd almost want the Capital to be immune to the double unhappiness, but that would probably be exploited. War elephants can be useful sometimes, being less vulnerable to melee attacks, but all in all, nothing special. Mughal fort is just, what? They just feel boring
7 Siam (Ramkhamhaeng the Hamhamhaeng): With city states becoming mor eimportant to get, li'l Ramky might have trouble seizing them than before. Still, he makes good use of them and gives him a lot of versatility. His dumb Elephant is still dumb-powerful-dumb and he's apparently all about the exploits. Exploit Legalism for free Wats, and exploit Jesuit Education for double universities. Though the latter should be fixed, the cultural victory is harder to achieve since it relies less on culture. But on the flipside he can defend against it better while going for the DV.
7 The Aztecs (Montezuma the Puma): Really tall civ. Combined with Jungle bias, you'll be sure to grow quite fast. Jaguars move fast through forest, which makes them half scouts, and the UA offers good early culture from Barbarians thanks to the more frequent Barbies.
7 Songhai (Askia the Baskia): Triple gold is great early game, and if you sack an Egyptioan city with a Burial Tomb in it, just look at that delicious 6x gold! Their UB stil lgives the same Culture yield, so it will help a little bit with those policies, and the UU is somewhat useful for supporting your ranged units well enough.
6-8 The Iroquois (Hiawatha the Watcher): With a good foresty start, you can get some free trade routes and good mobility. If you get unlucky, well, You need to work with what you get. Sometimes you can end up with the only forest tiles covering luxuries. UB can provide a lot of raw production that will shoot through the skies with Factories (And that's a FACT!...ory) and Religious Community if you manage to snag it, which can make your city a good unit producing factory. Mhoawks are good, especially with those damned no-iron starts.
6 The Ottmans (Suleiman the Magnificent Man of Otto): With the buffed UA all your melee ships are pirates, and you can amass a big enough navy to transport your UUs. Janissary may be a Musket, but can be useful enough thanks to their healing. And with the sipahi you can be a real jerk and pillage everything.
Seabastian Civ
King
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2012
- Messages
- 608
Immortals shine on Defense, not offense. Fortify them and they simply soak up arrows. Toss in a fort or citadel and they cannot be budged.
Yes, I have seen them in action on defense and they are quite rock solid however I figure that if you are the one on defense you are probably losing anyways.
