Screaming Orange Pumpkins - RR16B - It's tax day again ...

Tech - I think Alpha is the critical one. Once we get that we can probably pull of some tech trades to keep up. Plus I think the Dutch are probably good for a few extorts of cheap tech.

EDIT: LOL - twice in a row pig snuck in a post as I was typing mine.

Looks good, V!

I was really hoping we'd run Sailing for now to setup a POT<>Sailing trade. I really think we should do this. The insta trade routes will be huge.

So thoughts - however I will look again at save later:

1) Uruk runs 2 scientists. I like food switch idea with Eridu. Eridu and Kish can focus on units. Uruk should still be relatively productive running 2 scientists. After DAm gets Mids/Workboat it can start pumping units, maybe for Dutch later.

2) We might consider running 2 scientitsts in Eridu off and on. Don't it starve a pop, but it can be in a starving state.

One or 2 turns of 4 scientists into Sailing should allow us to trade for it.

I expect to extort alpha from Asoka later.

3) We need to take Uppsala definitely to clear a path to Asoka. Looks like Rag settled NW of that city as welll, but we will have a path.

4) We still need to move units in place and heal. If Rag accepts peace in the next turn of so, we might consider Cease Fire to keep him from building units so we can get into position. No diplo issues with DOWs on him. (ha...where's his darn metals)

5) I'd really like for Lagash to work gold now vs. grass cottage. The gold positive now is worth more to me that an cottage and extra pop. 11t is not that big a deal. We want to keep gold flowing in when we have to buy up more expensive techs later.

Any thoughts on EPs. I'm starting to wonder if Rag is best since we might want to kill him off. Not sure really. The fact that we will never trade with him may make stealing some techs better though - backfill some stuf. Getting to Asoka is more important anyway right now.

if the gold isn't worked the intent is to work gold size 3, will fix this definitely. I think I didn't check cities, just did some unit moves.

yep, Eridu can definitely run 2 scientists while temp starving, while Uruk takes the corn and runs 2 scientists permanently while still being quite productive.

Main goal in short term is Sailing trade. Eridu can switch back to normal after. Kish may run 2 scientists later.


I think we should gift Church ivory temporarily. STart some bonus diplo until we have another resource to trade.

Nice to see marble. We may put that to use later - at least for fail gold.


It will probably take 3 turns to enable Sailing trade - as long as Asoka is not teching Pot himself.

edit: and let's definitely keep those workers roading south and on to Asoka

vranasm said:

if the gold isn't worked the intent is to work gold size 3,

Click to expand...

I will conceed I will never be in sync with the team on this one. I want all cottages worked before gold. We are way to light on cottages - I really feel we need to mature what token amount we have.

We are fine LK and we will get there. The important thing is staying gold positive for as long as possible. Whether it is for buying stuff later or funding a huge Pigs inspired Domination extravaganza, we will wish we were generating gold all that time, either way, as opposed to waiting for a little grass cottage to mature slowly. It's about a 5 or 6 gpt differently for 11turns at least. 55 to 66 gold. (another way to look at it - hypothetically - if we could actually run reasearch is that's about 66 beakers as well over that time, which is huge) I big thing that advanced players will always tell you is that the early game is far more important than anything later.

I want to win this game as soon as possible. Not thinking advanced eras here.

edit: maybe once we get trade routes from Sailing we an readjust things in Lagash. The city IS still growing working the gold. But for now, we want to stay in the green.

grass nonriverside cottage is just bad tile to work. There is enough of analysis to prove that.

I imagine once we hit CS we will chain irrigate the whole are from amsterdam's river

Will play next part tonight. Was watching Ice hockey yesterday!

Turnset is finished

I tried to follow the team directions to my best ability employing scientists, etc etc

Aimed for the pottery &#8596; sailing trade

Hmm next turn rechecked Asoka's blocking of sailing and found out this

means he builds GLH

We finish the Mids

i decide to withhold on any switches of course

Ragnar placed 3 archers as defense in new capital, I have 4 vultures + 1 chariot, but winning odds with vulture (63%)

And with medium amount of luck we get Uppsala



And I totally missed to pillage that copper :-( was soo dumb
put signs for number of defenders in new Rags capital + sign for the copper :-( Really sorry about that

Well that's from me

Got it but got to rush. I'll post thoughts later.

Some thoughts:

It looks like we're heading towards India so probably keep heading that way. Stomp Ragnar's north west city, check out south west city and pillage copper while waiting for rest of the vultures to catch up. Probably get peace with Rags once he decides to talk.

I don't see the value of the vulture outside barb city and will probably move it. We could do with another fogbuster in the eastern jungle. I presume the chariots are to relieve vultures of MP duty.

Techwise sailing>alphabet and hope to extort the rest from Asoka (probably in next TS).

Having built pyramids we may as well use it and adopt HR.

Cities:
Uruk vultures (run 2 sci)
Edidu vultures (run 2 sci)
Amsterdam WB>library
Lagash chariots
Nidaros rax>vultures
Uppsala library

Workers complete great south road then chop around Nidaros/Uppsala.

chariots are cheapest builds and Kish + Lagash have not much production...so I decided to 'pump' some chariots for anything

I am afraid the chariot near copper will be killed by the axe in the AI turn...if not then the pillage is clear choice...

I would raze that north west spot if you go there... we will start to have some maintenance issues soon.

Yep, head towards India. We are a bit light on Vulture I think.

I'd rather Kish build Vultures. I'm fine with Lagash slow building Chariots - we don't need many of them

I would wait on HR switch until we really need it. We can't really afford growing cities very large, but if we are suddenly just crippled by unhappiness then we need it. Police State on the other hand may have immediate value.

Yep, definitely raze that NW city - it's crap anyway. We can't afford many cities until we get currency.

Why library in Uppsala? Front line cities should whip Vultures.

We will have to take at least 1 scientists off Eridu before it starves, but keep both running until we insure Sailing in 3 turns. Too bad about the Trade, but really getting Sailing that quickly is not bad at all.

lymond said:

Yep, head towards India. We are a bit light on Vulture I think.

I'd rather Kish build Vultures. I'm fine with Lagash slow building Chariots - we don't need many of them

I would wait on HR switch until we really need it. We can't really afford growing cities very large, but if we are suddenly just crippled by unhappiness then we need it. Police State on the other hand may have immediate value.

Yep, definitely raze that NW city - it's crap anyway. We can't afford many cities until we get currency.

Why library in Uppsala? Front line cities should whip Vultures.

We will have to take at least 1 scientists off Eridu before it starves, but keep both running until we insure Sailing in 3 turns. Too bad about the Trade, but really getting Sailing that quickly is not bad at all.

Click to expand...

vulture builds in nidaros+uppsala are not open and we need some more time.

discusion could be building rax or library...that city is in revolt...totally doesn't matter what is there imo ;-)

I checked the Uruk and Eridu MM and i think we could be there somewhat creative and doing some wet corn sharings (like switching into lake, grassland hills etc)
I started to improve that lake grassland to farm so we will have there 3F tile "soon".

Once we hit sailing Capital should most probably build lighthouse... clams, lake could use help and should help with sharing tiles.

Uppsala's library really depends on how much research we need compared to hammers. If we think that 3 libs/6 scientists are enough then that's fine but I'd rather have 4 libs/8 scientists. Uppsala has 2 food, 2 hills and ivory with a happy cap of 6.

Nidaros certainly looks like a solid production city.

Kish to build vultures is fine by me.

Running PS instead of HR is also fine.

vranasm's suggestion of LH in Uruk seems pretty solid.

I would take Haitabu and then leave the NW viking city for now, go hit Asoka instead. If we stay in war with Ragnar, that NW city should be no threat - and after extorting Alpha from Asoka we may be able to pick up tech scraps from Ragnar (such as Priesthood which probably should be our next target after Sailing->alpha; we can't extort a prereq like Polytheism and Priesthood in a single peace deal with Asoka).

Does anyone know of a detailed FAQ on tech extortion? I'm aware there is a concept called "war success" (based on #unit kills and cities taken) but unsure how much you can extort is calculated - is it based on war success, power ratio, some of both? The reason to stay in war with Ragnar w/o signing peace (as opposed to peace with one city left, then trying to extort him later) is to "preserve" our current war success, but not sure much it buys us.


As for builds in Nidaros/Uppsala, I would personally use libraries or granaries as placeholders (swapping to vultures in a few turns when the road is connected). Get the value of new troops at the front lines but don't think we want to finish barracks first...so a few turns of production into an economic building for postwar use seems more beneficial until vultures enabled.


Minor things:
move the warrior on the plains hill 1s to jungle hill (where the sign says 'SB'), we already have border visibility on his northern row of spawnbusted tiles.

Agree with moving the vulture camping Vandal. Made sense earlier but now Ragnar won't be going after it, and we will see any other AI sending a war party going by our new Viking cities with plenty of time to nab it.

ah...forgot about road network. Yep, we need placeholders until we can build vultures.

Timmy, I think I agree on all your points. I'm a little torn on what to do with Rag. Note: He has another city in the fog south of Uppsala.

That NW city is crap and maybe it is best to leave him only that and then use to steal techs. Taking Haitabu would rid him of copper, although his other city could have it. However, I think we need to start razing cities.

Where I'm torn, is that I think we need to push on to India soon. However, the diversion of attacking Rags other cities will buy us time to complete a road to India for faster movement.

I say we pillage that copper whether we risk losing the chariot or not.

Oh...I don't think war success with Rags really matters. We will steal techs from him and extort from others. We don't have alpha yet anyway and I doubt he gets it for a long time.'


(As for Lighthouse in Uruk, I think it begs the question "Do we need it now?". Not saying not to build it, but just to think about it. It's not like Uruk can grow more now. However we could use the extra food for whipping without losing the scientists)

Played six turns so far, just captured and razed Haithabu, the thing is that we've got a GG out of it and I'm not sure if we discussed this eventuality. My preference would be to attach it to any old chariot as a Lvl4 supermedic coz we probably will be doing a bit more fighting. Alternatively settle it as MI somewhere.

pigswill said:

My preference would be to attach it to any old chariot as a Lvl4 supermedic coz

Click to expand...

Please attach - that is why I built 2 chariots during my set. I wanted some super medics.

LKendter said:

Please attach - that is why I built 2 chariots during my set. I wanted some super medics.

Click to expand...

I'm in full agreement with LK on this (I usually use scouts now as medics, but if we have a combat I chariot with some experience we might get mobility as well)

Did you raze H-town?

Played on up to 250bc. Mixed fortunes.

500bc. Change lib in Uppsala to rax because Amsterdam can become our fourth science city. Revolted to PS. One minor point is that Uruk and Eridu were going to pop a GS on the same turn, very bad, you get 1GS but both lose 100gpp. Switched Ururk to 1 scientist for 1 turn, problem solved but enough to delay sailing by a turn (tho in reality its only 3 beakers lost).

475bc. Anarchy. Chariot pillages copper.

450bc. Chariot retreats unscathed. Uruk rehires scientist.

425. Asterdam WB>lib. WB heads west towards an island. Rags sends axe to protect pillaged copper. Chariot kills axe .

400. Sailing > alphabet.

375 zzzz

350 Siege of Haithabu, protected by 4 archers. Lose 3 vultures. Razed. 122g. Get GG. Amsterdam library>chariot. Assign 2 scientists.

325. Utrecht pops borders, Amsterdam loses corn and gold, starving even without scientists.



275 Eridu starts rax.

250 zzz

WB most of the way round India. Got a chariot doing a quick tour of India. We have 11 vultures + chariot supermedic in Nidaros ready to move next turn, spear coming to join them coz Asoka has chariots. We have a road to India.

We've got 6 vultures up north, mainly in Kish in case we decide to capture Utrecht (good idea imo but we'll need 12-15 vultures to do it I expect). Willem has a third city somewhere. North west island is pretty big, uninhabited, even has a hut!, looks like we have sole access.

We've located Rags two cities, probably not a priority at present.

Most of our workers are down south, still got a couple up north chopping outside BFCs.

Alphabet in 9 turns.