Opening build: Liberty NC Expand [G&K]

Has anyone tried the standard approach for the mayans? Do you switch the build order around or buy the pyramid asap?

For Emperor and below, when I may try for 1-city GL/NC to slingshot Theology by turn 60, I usually go Scout -> Monument -> Pyramid -> GL (may put a few turns into an Atlatlist until Writing is done) -> NC -> ranged unit or two and everything else I need. For policies I will go with the standard Liberty -> Collective Rule (for free worker) -> Republic, and tech path is usually Pottery -> Writing -> Mining (for luxuries and chopping) -> Calendar -> Drama & Poetry (pick Philosophy with GL) -> Theology (about every other game I'll pop one or more of AH, Mining and Calendar, which is always nice).

Buy a granary as soon as possible. Steal a second worker. The key is balancing fast production with population growth to speed up research.

If you don't care about early Theology (or the map doesn't look like it will cooperate -- no forests to chop, all trapping luxuries, etc.), then build a scout, put some turns into a monument, switch to pyramid, then finish monument, before going on to library and granary.

Browd said:

Although it's sure to be nerfed eventually, I've grown fond of Tradition (or Liberty) then Patronage + Aesthetics (+ Pledge) and then into Rationalism. In that approach, the more early culture the better. I'll even take a cultural pantheon to speed things along. Perhaps not the fastest path to a science victory, but a much more robust empire from the CS benefits (assured maritime food in my capital to work specialists that much earlier (and keep growing), extra happiness from mercantiles for more frequent GAs, and culture from cultural CS friendships to slam through Rationalism that much faster). Absolutely deadly as Siam.

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I second that. Just finished an emperor game with siam, and while I usually win emperor, this game was ridiculously quick. I was taking over neighbours with 2age+ advanced armies, all thanks to a little early-game love to Patronage and CSs.

When your opponents are human, what's to stop early focusing civs like Greece, Babylon or Maya from destroying your capital?

Anyone tried it in BNW yet?

It sounds more feasible than the 4 City tradition opening, because you do not have to buy as many settlers and libraries.

NC openings aren't as strong in BNW; you don't need the boost in Science quite as much as you do a more balanced economy. It'll still get you a big science boost, though, so it might be worth it in certain situations.

knighterrant81 said:

NC openings aren't as strong in BNW; you don't need the boost in Science quite as much as you do a more balanced economy. It'll still get you a big science boost, though, so it might be worth it in certain situations.

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Hm? What difficulty are you talking about? NC is nearly always a must have.

Hm? What difficulty are you talking about? NC is nearly always a must have.

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Try it without. You may not be #1 in Science, but that isn't always strictly necessary anymore, which is what I was hinting about with Science vs. balanced economy. A Science opening won't help you if you don't have the economy to make use of all that research.

Prince/King level. Maybe its more worthwhile still at higher levels...but I'd still try to go without (depending on what I'm going for). If you're going for a Tall build, then yeah, you probably want a lot of National Wonders, and NC is still one of the best. But if you're going wide, or doing an early aggression rush, you could probably spend the hammers somewhere else and do fine.

To put it another way: Shaka looks at your NC, and says "Bah! I do research with all the cities I control!"

I think the number one thing about BNW is there isn't really a "one-opening-for-all" like there was in G&K. You just don't have the resources to spread out like that; you have to put all your eggs in one basket (at least a bit more than you did in G&K).