CDG Series Discussion Thread

Grendeldef said:

If the main achi is a pre T200 win what will that leave for the others?

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This achievement will be scaling and there will be other achievements connected to Austria's UA/UB/UU.

Grendeldef said:

On the other hand any map where pre T200 SciV is a reasonable expectation is also a map where a win is guaranteed before starting so what's the point of playing?

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Thats like asking person who runs marathons why he runs as he already finished one.

The answer is to be better.

Game is almost six years old and on this forum is quite a lot of people who know before start that game is already won.

You may not care about finish time, but there are many threads on this forum from people asking how to improve theirs finish times.

EDIT: Overall I think that people posting maps should have some freedom to what achievements chose - you know diversity is good - there is no point in playing with similar rules each time.

I think fewer achievement points might, in general, be better. The Zulu game only had ten available -- and only two points for finishing before T200, which is a difficulty thing to achieve.

beetle said:

I think fewer achievement points might, in general, be better. The Zulu game only had ten available -- and only two points for finishing before T200, which is a difficulty thing to achieve.

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You didn't actually say why fewer achievement points might be better. My guess is Consentient rushed the final game/achievements on his way out, putting less thought into the achievements.
At this point in the series, ~20 points is the norm; suggesting a significant change from the norm so far in the CDG should at least be accompanied by a few strong reasons for doing so.

^^Agreed, I am just suggesting ~20 points as a nominal upper bound rather than 25. If you consider that some of the Assyria achievements were mutually exclusive, ~15 points is available for 3 of 6 games. Not that six games is a conclusive sample, but if we try to keep the points in a more limited range, it will be easier over time to compare games, including which were easier based on average scores.

Okay, so 15-20 points as suggested range? Sounds reasonable.
I'm not a fan of mutually exclusive achievements. While getting full points should be very difficult, it should be possible for at least a few players.

IronfighterXXX said:

This achievement will be scaling and there will be other achievements connected to Austria's UA/UB/UU.

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The scaling or lack of it wasn't my immediate concern but this achi potentially overshadowing everything else in the game or vice versa it'll be ignored as virtual impossibility while pursuing the other achis.
I have no idea how often people do sub T200 SVs but to my understanding it's far from trivial hence it doesn't really leave much room for the other achis.

IronfighterXXX said:

Thats like asking person who runs marathons why he runs as he already finished one.

The answer is to be better.

Game is almost six years old and on this forum is quite a lot of people who know before start that game is already won.

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That's a false analogy but I get the point and hoping to improve one's game is a valid argument but that'd also apply if the series would be played on Settler or whatever lower difficulty. What Deity brings into the table is the potential to lose even if the possibility is a remote one - Glory7 sort of proved it in previous series with Sweden, game #4 I think - and I don't wanna give up that tiny chance and I've been generally opposing (very) easy maps. Otherwise I quite agree that actually losing a game is difficult if the only target is just to win.

IronfighterXXX said:

You may not care about finish time, but there are many threads on this forum from people asking how to improve theirs finish times.

EDIT: Overall I think that people posting maps should have some freedom to what achievements chose - you know diversity is good - there is no point in playing with similar rules each time.

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I don't doubt that there're such people - the opposite seems more unlikely - and my prefence is irrelevant to the matter at hand the point being that going for fastest possible finish times isn't the objective of the series. The previous series was closer to that and the proposed map would've suited better for that but even then it was not the point of the series.

As I've said earlier the achis are ultimately up to the host of any particular game and the variable host should be beneficial to the diversity of achis - I only appointed myself as the interpretor of wording in case there's no OP available and my throne is on very shaky grounds.
Also the general agreement was that all achis should be somewhat reasonable, achievable in a single game, not contradictory to each other or UA/UB/UU - otherwise the host has free hands and while the main purpose of pre-screening them was to clarify wording it can quite well be used for (fine) tuning achis which seem to be in disagreement with what was originally agreed.

But in the end it's nice to see that at least this thread has been quite alive in the past 24h or so.

Grendeldef said:

That doesn't work without some downscalingHalf a point per WW having a slot and nothing or 0.25 for others total capped at 5 or something along those lines.

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OK, good.

vadalaz said:

Maybe reword it to something like "Settle your first expansion 4 tiles away from an AI city?"

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How about "settle an expansion 4 tiles away from an AI city before Turn 60" ? Give s bit of flexibility

IronfighterXXX said:

Overall I think that people posting maps should have some freedom to what achievements chose

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I agree wth this. There is no1 checking we have equal points for each challenge, rite?

Blatc said:

My guess is Consentient rushed the final game/achievements on his way out, putting less thought into the achievements.

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I swapped messages with him and he say that he really tried to make the Zulu map fun but some users bothered him and he didnt
want that in this life.

How do folks feel about isolated starts?

That was the main reason consentient rejected my Byzantium map, “too boring”. There are two civs you can reach with the Dromons, and I thought that was enough. I actually like that aspect of the map, since it invited kicking off war with Dromons, and this was a feature I was looking for. OTOH, it would have been better if the two civs were closer. I have more time now, should I keep rolling?

Iron i look forward to your austria <200 SV map and applaud your patience in re-rolling for the community. I just hope it is not the great plains template due to a personal dislike (i lost the worlds fair once on that map type after a perfect babylon start...)

beetle said:

How do folks feel about isolated start?

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I don't see a problem with one or even few isolated start(s).

I'm not sure why isolated start is boring according to consentient. In any cases it makes stealing workers harder.

Grendeldef said:

I don't doubt that there're such people - the opposite seems more unlikely - and my prefence is irrelevant to the matter at hand the point being that going for fastest possible finish times isn't the objective of the series.

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As I will post only one map there isn't really serious 'danger' to change this series to going for fastest possible finish times. Next hosts for sure will be having different ideas for game and achievements.

fimbul said:

Iron i look forward to your austria <200 SV map and applaud your patience in re-rolling for the community. I just hope it is not the great plains template due to a personal dislike (i lost the worlds fair once on that map type after a perfect babylon start...)

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No, I already mastered great plains maps and I'm a little bit bored of it, so it will be standard pangea.

Anyway I'm ready for propose achievements for my Austria map, but not sure if I should do it now - are current Shoshone map achievements already established?

Fair enough but maybe you'll get hooked on hosting and become a regular at it?

The issue with the Shoshone achis - anything new to report on that front?

I will definitely play Ironifghter's challenge if he posts it. Regardless of whether it's an "Ofiicial" CDG posting or not. So go ahead and roll me up a legendary map

if anyone is waiting for me to cut in on something, please don't, you're just wasting time, sadly, I got stuff to deal with IRL

Grendeldef said:

Fair enough but maybe you'll get hooked on hosting and become a regular at it?

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No, I really don't play much lately; even I got bored after over five years , but Austria remains last civ to play with still unknown potential.

Manpanzee said:

I will definitely play Ironifghter's challenge if he posts it. Regardless of whether it's an "Ofiicial" CDG posting or not. So go ahead and roll me up a legendary map

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I will post map on next Monday.

IronfighterXXX said:

No, I really don't play much lately; even I got bored after over five years

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Do you have the capability to record an LP? Even not commentated. Would be interesting to see your game process.

I'm not sure if I'll be able to play too many CDG games in the future - this year will be quite busy but one small recommendation after playing a good handful of the older DCL games.

If you can with the weaker civs - try and give them a stronger start (and perhaps a weaker start for some of the more powerful civs like Maya, Poland and Babylon etc...).

The reason I say this is that some of the weaker civs were really hamstrung on the DCL and didn't really give players much flexibility for strategies - I'm thinking of Rome, France, Assyria, Carthage maps...
Civs that have very early UUs should probably get a stronger start so players can do something with them. The Rome game for instance didn't really give the player any opportunity to use the UUs. Same with Assyria. Anyway that's just a thought I had.

DCL Siam was OCC so they are due IMHO. The Venice map was ... unusual. But I am not sure how to make Venice interesting.

beetle said:

DCL Siam was OCC so they are due IMHO. The Venice map was ... unusual. But I am not sure how to make Venice interesting.

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I finally have my PC back, so I can try to help again. Going to be busy trying to beat this backlog though, and learning BERT.

It looks like we are good on maps until April though, and I think that would be a great time to do a good April Fools map like the Venice one. Who wants to call dibs? I don't think anything can top that Venice map, but maybe someone can surprise us?