G-Minor 133

The only problem with the mids trick is that you are passing on an early academy. That's a pretty big deal in OCC. I don't build the mids, but it would be nice to have.

Well I did try this after all. 1750 AD with Gandhi. Start, in the east, had only pigs and corn but gold popped around education time. Founded 6 religions partly for OR before any buildings, partly for cheap temples, partly for an early monastary, partly for 4 AP hammers under FR (temple and mandir) and partly because I moved onto a brown hill and lost my camp resources. (Oops.) No National Park but had coal for Aluminum Inc. Health got solved by driving into genetics ASAP while Apollo was being built and trading for supermarket resources and the grocer's wine. No copper but had mids and lots of wonders w/o stone or marble. Not bad for winging it. (Only 3 cottages and 3 forest preserves.) Whipped exactly once if only because I was spiritual.

Oracle=Civil Service and libbed in enviro.

Edit: Oracle was for bureau wonder hammers. Mids finished after Oxford.
Edit #2: Three AIs were added to squeeze out barbs. No GW.

WastinTime said:

The only problem with the mids trick is that you are passing on an early academy. That's a pretty big deal in OCC. I don't build the mids, but it would be nice to have.

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True, but not building mids... hm that is a big loss too! But considering the timing you are putting out, i can only learn. At what date you usually get bio?

1886 AD submission pending. In addition to the required settings, I turned events off as well. I didn't want the random garbage. I chose Elizabeth as the leader (yeah, really original, I know). In an OCC Space game, I want to run Representation, Caste System, Bureaucracy and Pacifism. Thus, I chose opponents that favour those civics and are not very war-like: Pericles, WK, Qin, Kublai and Peter. The sixth opponent was, of course, Gandhi. Now, I wasn't exactly afraid of the AIs, but I wanted to keep resource trading options open. Besides, I'd rather pour my hammers into infrastructure, research and SS parts than into units.

The city I ended settling was not on riverside (which is kind of a bummer in OCC), but it had double pigs, wet corn, a few nice hills and a fair share of forest. With National Park, it became quite a powerhouse.

To those reading this before playing and contemplating the Great Wall, I have three words for you: Not worth it. I built it, but I never noticed any barbs whatsoever patrolling my borders. My auto-exploring warrior encountered two barb axes during the entire game. By the time the first encounter happened, I had access to at least maces (maybe even muskets, can't remember exactly).

I also could have skipped the Oracle altogether or delayed it for a much juicier tech. I went for the traditional CS sling. I compensated with lib, however, milking fusion out of it. After CS, I pretty much beelined any techs that unlocked the civics and National Wonders I wanted (drama for globe, steel for ironworks, biology for NP, medicine for environmentalism, constitution for rep). After all that, I finally went for Rocketry to get Apollo started. Next up was industrialism to see if there's any aluminum (there wasn't ), superconductors for the lab and a beeline to fusion.

The order of the remaining SS techs didn't really matter because I was unlocking new parts way faster than I could build them. As a last question, how much do Thrusters reduce flight time? I built just one and the trip took 20 turns. Building another one would've taken 6 turns, so I decided against it. Did I make the right call there?

EDIT: Nevermind. Bugio's reply already answers this question.

Turn
66 Education 1360 BC
79 Oxford 900 BC (built with no hills/mines)
111 Biology 100 BC
120 Constitution 125 AD (then I switch to Rep, so mids is technically obsolete)
130 Medicine 375 AD
152 Superconductors 840 AD
Industrial then Rocketry 1130 AD

fantastic stuff WastinTime... followed your gameplan and finished with 1810 AD.

I didnt' build any wonders except for Oracle, in retrospect I should have done MoM with TM probably.

The tricky part is to switch from forest preserves to workshops imo. I had ~12 forest preserves at point which were fantastic for teching together with Enviro.

Another very tricky question is... do you wait with NP until you see coal? I had great position in top left corner and got coal in 5th ring of borders and actually could mine it, but the coal is blocked for Aluminium Co. after NP...

Built only 2 Thrusters for 18 turns travel. It somehow ideally clicked at a point to sneak in 1 more Thruster.

I am veeery content with lowering the finish by 150 years!

Congrats vranasm, you embody what the gauntlets are all about: learning ways to tweak your strategy and improve your personal best.

your question:
NP is far to valuable to even consider skipping for coal. It's too bad we can't destroy/sell it.

You have to realize that Aluminum isn't that big a deal. It is most certainly not 100% production boost--that's just the marketing hype. You should already be doing +250%.

That means for parts that just get +50% for coal (Ironworks), production only drops 10 - 12%

and for the parts that require aluminum, production drops 30%.
That is a lot, but not "double".

WastinTime said:

Congrats vranasm, you embody what the gauntlets are all about: learning ways to tweak your strategy and improve your personal best.

Click to expand...

well this game is special because for each attempt you need something like ~1 hour of your lifetime... thus more attempts from me...

Turn
66 Education 1360 BC
79 Oxford 900 BC (built with no hills/mines)
111 Biology 100 BC
120 Constitution 125 AD (then I switch to Rep, so mids is technically obsolete)
130 Medicine 375 AD
152 Superconductors 840 AD
Industrial then Rocketry 1130 AD

Click to expand...

That's some nice dates WT. My Gandhi game is currently 2nd but I had education at turn 92ish, a 25 turn difference. But I had rocketry at 1200 AD with electro and factories in tow. Then it was off to superconductors. (A lab could be done before rocketry.) So Gandhi seems to have picked up some ground somewhere.

From a strategic standpoint, I don't like the NP. It feels more like a jungle thing than a forest thing. Testing showed that coal is very probable so Aluminum Inc stands out to me. I think I tried Gandhi as a wonder whore (9) and religion whore (6) with 2 turns wasted founding the capitol as a subconcious way of showing how much time can be wasted without the NP and still come close. I'll bet you can do better with a corporate strat. You can think of this as a sub challenge to yourself. I hate the NP that much. I don't care who wins this gauntlet as long as it is without the NP.

I had Education turn 60, 1600BC, and Superconductors at 680AD, must be doing something wrong to finish 100 years later than WT. Must be time for another try...

I guess the floodplain/cow spots just aren't working. I've done this 4 times and slowly getting better, but still in 1800s. Going to try the forest method now.

Just curious, do yall find it very hard to find good starts on this map. I've played GPs quite a few times, but for HOF usually early war stuff in which case cow starts are great. I seriously roll many starts that are very much non-regulation - like no resources at all, jungle, deserts, no hills, etc. etc. - and I'm wondering why that is the case on this map (and Rainforest too). Takes me at least 20 gens to find a even half-way worthy start. One thought I have is that adding AIs may throw off the map gen, but have no idea.

(yeah....I know about Mapfinder and use it sometimes, but not in this case)

@L

this script isn't regulation obviously (since I got starts without any resources) and yes I have troubles to find good maps too, even with Map Finder.

Last Rules I put was 1 deer and 1 fur as minimum and out of 65 maps only 3 were saved.

Good to know....at least I'm not

deer/fur seems like an odd combo to find. Guess you might be trying to make sure you start in a particular region. Pigs/gems might work or Pig/marble

lymond said:

Good to know....at least I'm not

deer/fur seems like an odd combo to find. Guess you might be trying to make sure you start in a particular region. Pigs/gems might work or Pig/marble

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yeah the aim was forested river area

So, apparently you can't just build one of each piece and expect your ship to make it. Even if it did, I was still in the early 1800s. I saw no point in building another one.

This was also my first attempt with forest/preserves, and no pyramids. Because of that I forgot to get representation early on. I was trying to figure out why my teching was so slow.

If you build the National Park, don't forget to build a Hydro Plant. The Coal Plant won't work since you don't have coal. I discovered this after building about 4 SS parts.

Just curious, do yall find it very hard to find good starts on this map. I've played GPs quite a few times, but for HOF usually early war stuff in which case cow starts are great. I seriously roll many starts that are very much non-regulation - like no resources at all, jungle, deserts, no hills, etc. etc. - and I'm wondering why that is the case on this map (and Rainforest too). Takes me at least 20 gens to find a even half-way worthy start. One thought I have is that adding AIs may throw off the map gen, but have no idea.

Click to expand...

My only rule for mapfinder was anything with a camp resource. I just finished a 1600's game with nothing more than a 3 food start, one of which was forested deer. No lux except 4th ring. In my opinion, if the National Park isn't in the game plan then the Globe must be in. Happiness is the limiting factor and since rep will eventually kill HR that leaves too many temples or the Globe. I got things done with a pop 25 Globe city.

Other notes: sell maps frequently and upgrade any warriors to mace. I left random events on by accident and was lucky when 3 barb HAs appeared. They bypassed a closer AI to come at me. It came down to 1 HA vs my mace in city. I held my breath and wondered if it would be RE + RNG = lost capitol at settler. The defense held but I would have cried laughing if the defense went bad.

I tried 2 other times, both 1700's finishes. Worst case was no iron, coal or copper. One AI did have double coal and was gifted to steam power. I had to build Broadway to trade for all resources though. I never built parts without resources.

I also never played a start that started with a commerce tile . I only had food and always settled on a brown hill.

I had Education turn 60, 1600BC, and Superconductors at 680AD, must be doing something wrong to finish 100 years later than WT. Must be time for another try...

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I been able to do this too which only confirms my hatred of the National Park. It's too much fallow ground for too long only to be followed up with intentionally building 10 parts lacking a resource. <stepping down from soapbox>

I also hold Oxford to a lesser degree of contempt. My recent 1600's game had me Oracling Civil Service and interrupting Oxford to build a forge--but not the university. (Mild contempt ) I can see the value in the Education part of the Oracle debate but wish to take the Civil Service side.

iggymnrr said:

My only rule for mapfinder was anything with a camp resource. I just finished a 1600's game with nothing more than a 3 food start, one of which was forested deer. .

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I've never been able to wrap my head around the specialist economy. I've always at least cottaged my capital. I just can't picture how it works with only food resources. Do you bulb any great people? or are they all settled?

Then you run State Property? with workshops and watermills?

I should try a game like that because it just feels wrong and I want to understand it better. It must work if you finished 1600's. Can you elaborate on some of the basics (like tech beelines). Key wonders/buildings, etc.?

I have a Pig, Pig, Pig, Deer, Fur, Fur start to try, but it's not on a river.