Expanding Civ3

When you mentioned the "no cities on desert", it came to me that there was a mod (CCM I think) that added 2 movement cost and different camel and desert units.

Every time I get the urge to play Civ III I remember the infinite numbers of cities and how tiresome everything was. The desert and tundra rules will be good addition for me.

Has anyone else did something to stop the race with infinite settlers from the beginning, apart from settlers beign spawned automatically after a period of turns?

eXalted said:

When you mentioned the "no cities on desert", it came to me that there was a mod (CCM I think) that added 2 movement cost and different camel and desert units.

Every time I get the urge to play Civ III I remember the infinite numbers of cities and how tiresome everything was. The desert and tundra rules will be good addition for me.

Has anyone else did something to stop the race with infinite settlers from the beginning, apart from settlers beign spawned automatically after a period of turns?

Click to expand...

One thing that does slow the AI down is setting settlers to cost 4 population rather than 2. However, if you do that, you need to boost food resources a bit to avoid killing yourself at the same time. No cities on either desert or tundra does help as well, along with no cities in Forest or Jungle. One player modified it to only allow cities on Marshes, and then limited the number of Marshes.

I play on Archipelago maps, mostly 240 X 240 or a bit larger, with lots of water. The more limited land areas also cut down on the number of AI cities

That's nice to know. Does doubling the cost of Settlers affects the AI in a good way? Or they start sacrificing all precious shield into Settlers production?

Kirejara said:

I have done it that way in my modification: The Grenadier (5/4/1, Military Tradition) is my missing link.

So I have got a upgrade line from Spearman to Modern Infantry (replacing the weird Mechanized Inf. ) and Warrior/Archer to TOW.

The Vikings have got a upgrade line on their own: Viking Warrior (1/1/1), Viking Axeman (4/2/1), Berserk (6/2/1) to Marine (12/6/1). Archers are no longer the predessecors of the Berserk.

And yes, even under KI guidance Ragnar can cause really trouble with those units.

Click to expand...

which unit did you use for this? I mean, where can I find the art files?

I assume that you mean the Grenadier?

First I was using the Musket Infantry out of the Napoleon Scenario, but in the meantime I switched to Sandris units: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=16012

Several countries have got flavor Grenadier/Voltigeur also by Sandris and out of the Napoleon Scenario.

The Sandris Line Infantry and the Guard out of the Napoleon Scenaro served as alternative to the Rifleman (and are now in need of Salpeter, as that was still required in huge quantities even at the beginning of the 20th century by the militaries of the historical world).

At first I was unsure what to do with Sandris different Cavalry units, but then I created three developement trees:

- Ancient Cavalry -> Conquistator (now 3/3/3 and enslaves enemies as workers) -> Hussar/Lancer (5/2/3, Horses and Iron)
- Mounted Warrior -> Cavalry Archer (4/1/2, Horses) -> Cavalry/Dragoon (6/3/3, Horses, Salpeter)
- Horseman -> Knight -> Horseguard/Cuirassier (6/4/3, Horses, Iron, Salpeter)

To your question about my favorit units: Spies (6/2/2, Invisible) and Secret Agents (6/2/2, Invisible, Hidden Nationality). It is fun to wrack havoc behind enemy lines with them (especially if your enemy forgot to build Policemen as detectors).

eXalted said:

That's nice to know. Does doubling the cost of Settlers affects the AI in a good way? Or they start sacrificing all precious shield into Settlers production?

Click to expand...

Based on watching in DeBug mode, the AI does not use shields for Settler production when the population cost is 4. What the AI does is build a Settler as soon as possible, dropping the town population to 1, and then continues the cycle as the population gets back to 5. The result is a lot slower shield production as well, as you do not have that many citizens producing shields. It looks like the AI is mainly producing Settlers at its capital when it does this. Not sure why that is, but I do have a couple of capital bonuses in the mod.

timerover51 said:

Based on watching in DeBug mode, the AI does not use shields for Settler production when the population cost is 4. What the AI does is build a Settler as soon as possible, dropping the town population to 1, and then continues the cycle as the population gets back to 5. The result is a lot slower shield production as well, as you do not have that many citizens producing shields. It looks like the AI is mainly producing Settlers at its capital when it does this. Not sure why that is, but I do have a couple of capital bonuses in the mod.

Click to expand...

This seems to slow down the whole game then... wouldn't you better make an early warship with hidden nationality, so ships with settlers are taken out more?

This way, with an Earth map in mind, it's more likely that the Zulus take Madagascar, earlier and easier than for example Japan would.
It's a simple tweak that doesn't change the complexity of the whole game.

I don't mind the AI taking the open spots, what I don't like is that they set up many ships and just sail around the world uncontested and set up shop from Scandinavia all the way to Sri Lanka.

Kirejara said:

To your question about my favorit units: Spies (6/2/2, Invisible) and Secret Agents (6/2/2, Invisible, Hidden Nationality). It is fun to wrack havoc behind enemy lines with them (especially if your enemy forgot to build Policemen as detectors).

Click to expand...

Cool. I added the 5/4/1 Grenadier (made it 75 shields/Democracy/Saltpeter).

Does the AI use Policemen? I want to add a hidden nationality foot unit, but I read that the AI doesn't use them properly.

Also,

I wanted use Ivory also as a strategic resource to build a line of elephant units; parallel with horses (only slower, but higher defense?).
Does anyone have experience with this?
Maybe I can make Ivory a strategic resource and add another resource as a luxury??
Ideas?

Yes, the KI builds regulary Police Officers as they are cheap defenders.

You can use a luxury resource also as a strategic resource. Please take a look at my BIQ data (I believe you downloaded it) as I have added Elephant Riders (2/1/2, +1 Hitpoint, Horseback Riding) and Elephant Archers (4/1/2, +1 Hitpoint, Invention) using ivory and the units from Balam-Agab.

They have got an additional hitpoints but are as fast as horses or camels (in real life elephants may look slow, but they could really run as fast as a horse!).

But if you want additional luxuries I would suggest jade, tobacco (simple switch ), marble and tropical birds.

So far your ideas sound very similar to my own modification. Should we reconsider, that I create a CD with my mod to post it to you?

Kirejara said:

Yes, the KI builds regulary Police Officers as they are cheap defenders.

You can use a luxury resource also as a strategic resource. Please take a look at my BIQ data (I believe you downloaded it) as I have added Elephant Riders (2/1/2, +1 Hitpoint, Horseback Riding) and Elephant Archers (4/1/2, +1 Hitpoint, Invention) using ivory and the units from Balam-Agab.

They have got an additional hitpoints but are as fast as horses or camels (in real life elephants may look slow, but they could really run as fast as a horse!).

But if you want additional luxuries I would suggest jade, tobacco (simple switch ), marble and tropical birds.

So far your ideas sound very similar to my own modification. Should we reconsider, that I create a CD with my mod to post it to you?

Click to expand...

a CD?

Yes, I have your BIQ, but i need the additional files to play it.

Did you post it at the customization forum??

Yes, a CD as I have currently no other idea how to get the complete data to you.

I have not posted it in the customation forum. Maybe I should do that and than try to figure out which data belongs to my mod and which to the original game.

Maybe (no promises) I could create a zip or rar file for upload.

Kirejara said:

Yes, a CD as I have currently no other idea how to get the complete data to you.

I have not posted it in the customation forum. Maybe I should do that and than try to figure out which data belongs to my mod and which to the original game.

Maybe (no promises) I could create a zip or rar file for upload.

Click to expand...

just zip it and send it via wetransfer

I don't know where you stored all the unit files, pedia files and other files (perhaps you used some of the original files... so it might only work on your computer)

I'll PM you my email address.

Hey, I need some advice:

I'm going to add some 'future' units available with the invention of the Laser, Smart Weapons, Robotics and Integrated Defense.

I'm thinking of taking these units as I couldn't find many better units that are also in the same type/design:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=115031

Has anyone other suggestions for stats or names of these Robots??

The biggest defense right now in C3C belongs to the Mech Infantry with 18, so these units are going to have to beat that (offense of 18 and over).
The biggest offense in C3C is the Modern Armor with 24, so some of these units are going to be over that too. (defense of 24+)
Aluminium and Uranium are going to be some needed resources.

@Theov
You can check these one here - http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=196395
Just Ctrl+F "Future" and you'll see a list with sci-fi units.

Oh, and you can write if you manage to implement some great ones.

Theov said:

This seems to slow down the whole game then... wouldn't you better make an early warship with hidden nationality, so ships with settlers are taken out more?

This way, with an Earth map in mind, it's more likely that the Zulus take Madagascar, earlier and easier than for example Japan would.
It's a simple tweak that doesn't change the complexity of the whole game.

I don't mind the AI taking the open spots, what I don't like is that they set up many ships and just sail around the world uncontested and set up shop from Scandinavia all the way to Sri Lanka.

Click to expand...

Well, I do boost the food yields to a degree, so as not to slow it down too much. And with Barbarians set to Raging, and making sure that there are Barbarian camps on the Coast, there are quite a few pirate ships out there attacking anything that sails.

I do see your point however. I am not that great at adding units though.

Theov said:

Now they are working, but i'm looking for a bit fancier names. Who can come up with some nice names for these monsters?

Click to expand...

I plan to make some modifications too, and on the top of my head:

Augmented Soldier
Cyber Commando
Dusk Warrior
Corp MERC
NEO Hunter

Or you can just add some random letters and numbers:

Z-1 Sniper
ASA Commando
XU Trooper

They are generic in the style of Civilization and at the same time not that cheesy

A small update, let me know what you think.

A/D/M/S = attack defense movement shields

Meet the new units:


The Siege Archer
A/D/M/S: 2/2/1/24 Available with Mathematics.
Meant as an extra unit in the early ages for those who lack Iron.


The Crossbow
A/D/M/S: 3/1/1/25, Zone of Control. Available with Monarchy.
Some Kings required their own specialized armies.
I made an excel sheet with all available units and their specifics, and would you believe it, there is no unit with 3 attack, 1 defense and 1 movement. So I added the Crossbow unit. Available late enough to upgrade the Monarchy tech and to bridge another gap from the Archer to the Longbow.
It has Zone of Control because this is an angry guy.


The Scout ship
A/D/M/S: 0/0/3/20, 1 transport. Available with Writing.
Meant as an extra unit in the early ages to scout the shores, but can not attack anything. It can transport one unit with it.


The Ship of the Line
A/D/M/S: 4/3/5/70, 4 bombard, 2 transport, 1 HP Bonus, Zone of Control. Available with Navigation.
Meant as an extra unit in between Frigates and Ironclads and to make Navigation (optional) more important in the game.
I thought about making a small wonder, and having it make a SotL every few turns... but decided not to. Maybe later.


The Armored Car
A/D/M/S: 3/8/2/90. Available with Industrialization.
Meant as an extra unit in between Cavalry and tanks. First I used the Gatlin Gun (a great defensive weapon, but this turned out to be a better choice.)
If someone has a unit with an early machine rifle... I would like to add it.


The SAW Gunner (Squad Automatic Weapon)
A/D/M/S: 3/8/1/90. Available with Mass Production.
Meant as an extra unit in Guerillas and Marines.


The Sniper
A/D/M/S: 8/2/1/80. Stealth Attack. Available with Espionage.
A unit with a heavy rifle that can take out any unit in a stack, except ships and tanks. Meant as an extra unit to make espionage more valuable and as a unit to have fun with.


The Grenadier
SORRY NO PREVIEW AVAILABLE
A/D/M/S: 5/4/1/70. Available with Military Tradition.
Another offensive unit to bridge the gap between Medieval Infantry and the Berserk (Viking only) and the Cavalry or even Guerrilla.


The Architect
A/D/M/S: 0/2/1/15. Costs 1 population. Can build (Rail)Roads, Colonies and Fortresses/Barricades. Available with Construction.
(It's the 'Pietone' unit in the Library if you want to look it up)
This is one of the 'hardest' units I thought of.

You must have noticed that you have to build an enormous amount of workers to build your infrastructure, pushing you to the limits of what is allowed by your Unit Support.
What I thought was, why isn't there a unit that can take some tasks out of the Worker's hands? Like the Legionary in the Rise of Rome scenario. So I saw this guy in the library with his worker animation and added him.
The guy is very similar to a Worker; he can build roads and fortresses and has no offensive power, so he's useless 'upfield'. You can use him to build a road into neutral terrain however, because he's able to defend himself vs Barbs and early enemies. He can be used to build roads on the perimeter of your country, and you can safely leave him there for a while because he's able to defend himself with the tools he's carrying.
He can also build Fortresses or Barricades or even found a Colony without having to guard him in the process.
Architects can not build irrigation, mines, chop or plant trees or take out Jungle or Marsh, so Workers are definitely still needed. And Workers are only 10 shields.


I also added these future units and they are just going to be a riot if you make it so far in the game.


I'm now building a line of Elephant units (Elephant Rider, -Soldier and -Cavalry) with a bit more defense/health but with a bit less attack/movement. Available with Ivory, parallel with the Horse units. The Elephant Soldier (from Tom's Unit Factory ) is amazing.


Any thoughts, or comments on the addition of these units would be welcome.

I try to keep my moderations as an addition to the game. I don't plan to change the gameplay at all (so I had to consider the Architect for a while). I prefer not to change any existing units.

Nice units you have there! Like the Architect one and the sniper.

I'm only afraid if that an Industrious civilization can jump straight to Mathematics and get the Siege Archer. This way it will have a Spearman and Archer in one without Warrior Code and Bronze Working.

Theov said:

I made an excel sheet with all available units and their specifics

Click to expand...

Can I haz?
Will be very helpful!

Theov said:

I try to keep my moderations as an addition to the game. I don't plan to change the gameplay at all (so I had to consider the Architect for a while). I prefer not to change any existing units.

Click to expand...

Oh, you know you want to change these Paratroopers!

eXalted said:

Nice units you have there! Like the Architect one and the sniper.

I'm only afraid if that an Industrious civilization can jump straight to Mathematics and get the Siege Archer. This way it will have a Spearman and Archer in one without Warrior Code and Bronze Working.

Click to expand...

Good point, but is this really a problem? It is also more expensive than both. And the Archer has bombard, which the Siege Archer doesn't have.
And if one has access to Iron, he will go for the Swordsman anyway.
Maybe push them a bit further in the tech tree, but which one? It doesn't seem to make sense to put him under Code of Laws (as a lawkeeper?), Republic (too far) or Polytheism. I'll take a look.

Can I haz?
Will be very helpful!

Click to expand...

sure, I'll send it later today

Oh, you know you want to change these Paratroopers!

Click to expand...

suggestions??

Theov said:

Good point, but is this really a problem? It is also more expensive than both.

Click to expand...

I noticed just now that it's more expensive. Maybe 5 more shields, or maybe not, I'm not sure. I think that Mathematics is where it should be.

Theov said:

suggestions??

Click to expand...

Maybe increase their defense and add Zone of Control to them. It should make them more useful for dropping them on enemy resources. I just came up with this, don't know if it's a good idea