C2C - Religions discussions and ideas

I have a thread for each religion in Rapture forums, and you can play the mp3 for the religions in each thread. It broken down into the groups I created.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=323892

The percentage will not work without some major changes. I have the defaults now for my Rapture stuff you start with a lesser religion. Then a prereq for a wonder is a lesser religion, and once the wonder is built to a particular god you get that new religion. Anyway this could be helpful if some religions like Egyptian focus on a particular building, and you begin something like a shamanistic religion.
 
@Johnny Smith, DH and all

What I would love to see and have in C2C is your awesome Religions-Mod. I don't know, but maybe you and DH could make a new Religions-Modmod that combines the C2C-stuff we already have with your Rapture-Mod...

I'm just thinking loudly! :mischief:
 
What about if religion acted like culture in that there was a % of each religion in a city. Cities with a religion with too small of a % could not make certain buildings or maybe the buildings would cease to work. Sorry for such a loose idea. Just throwing out ideas that come to mind.

Awesome idea! That would solve many of the big issues! Like you need at least 20% to build a monastery/temple and 33 % for a cathedral, and they stop working if you drop below this number. And you could spend money/commerce to try and influence the religious views of the the people after unlocking certain techs. Depending on civics they behave different, like during free religion all different religions in a city will try to "take the same space" (so if you have 4 religions every one will try to get 25% of the people), but during others only the state religion will bee boosted at the expense of the others. Oh and in this case "atheism" should be counted as a religion after like Liberalism or something (parts of the city who does not believe in religion).
 
Awesome idea! That would solve many of the big issues! Like you need at least 20% to build a monastery/temple and 33 % for a cathedral, and they stop working if you drop below this number. And you could spend money/commerce to try and influence the religious views of the the people after unlocking certain techs. Depending on civics they behave different, like during free religion all different religions in a city will try to "take the same space" (so if you have 4 religions every one will try to get 25% of the people), but during others only the state religion will bee boosted at the expense of the others. Oh and in this case "atheism" should be counted as a religion after like Liberalism or something (parts of the city who does not believe in religion).

i agree too
 
I would Not be in favor of this Unless it was an Option like DP, etc..

You already have Limited Religion Option. This could be integrated into it. But I would not want it as the Main Religion Option. Nor to supplant Multiple Religion Option.

DP is a usable Option too. It just needs some tweaks to reduce the Prophet abuse that some players use and then complain about as an exploit.

But to use this as a catchall for spreading and founding religion in the game I would be opposed to. It's a matter of playstyle and preference.

JosEPh :)
 
It just needs some tweaks to reduce the Prophet abuse that some players use and then complain about as an exploit.

Guilty as charged. But I guess that is how you find exploits? In the game I am playing now, I am intentionally not using DP since it have those issues. In a multi player environment that would ruin the game if the first one to found a religion got 15 free techs from chaining GP. And even without using DP like this, it would be used to put 5-10 religions in the capital, meaning 5-10 monasteries meaning 50%-100% extra research. That is just not hoe DP was intended to be used, I am sure.

The "tweak" is to not give Great Prophets, but missionaries that can found religions, and that trying to found a religion in a Holy City will have a chance to fail depending on the amount of religions already founded. If this happens, then the next player to research the tech get the missionary and a chance to found the religion instead. There. Easy as pie.
 
The "tweak" is to not give Great Prophets, but missionaries that can found religions, and that trying to found a religion in a Holy City will have a chance to fail depending on the amount of religions already founded.

This was the way it used to be.

If this happens, then the next player to research the tech get the missionary and a chance to found the religion instead.
This would be the "New" wrinkle.

And even without using DP like this, it would be used to put 5-10 religions in the capital, meaning 5-10 monasteries meaning 50%-100% extra research. That is just not hoe DP was intended to be used, I am sure.

Not so sure about that.

And what is wrong with 5-10 religions in Any city as long as the AI can and does the same thing? The AI also benefits from the extra research (and Culture and/or Health) being generated and become a stronger opponent. That IS why I play with Multiple Religions ON. The AI Does use it and uses it quite well so the tech race is a Race and not a player exploit to leave the AI in a stagnant state.

JosEPh
 
This was the way it used to be.

What is wrong is that normally new religions is founded in different cities, and you have to build missionaries to spread them into a single city with a lower and lower chance of success, meaning it is hard to have 5 in a single city, let alone 8 o 10. But if you can found them all in the same city, you don't need to do this. Also, that means you can build all those Holy City Shrines in that city, and this, combined with the civic State Church that gives every Shrine +25% gold, is just nuts.

And in the games I have used these in, the smart way to do it is to use the first few to research religion founding techs, denying those religions to the AI, and then just hogging all the rest of the later religious techs, meaning that the AI can't have any of the free Great Prophets they generate.

Bottom line: the Great Prophets are too powerful to get like this.
 
I have always found that the Renaissance and Industrial periods go by in a blur, with a tech taking 1-4 turns to discover. I then realised it is because my build priority is monasteries so I have 10+ in 5-10 cities. Monasteries are cheaper than temples and give better benefits. So something needs to be done about multiple monasteries in a city, but I have not seen any suggestion here that I like. Which is important because I will have to do the work. ;)
 
What is wrong is that normally new religions is founded in different cities, and you have to build missionaries to spread them into a single city with a lower and lower chance of success, meaning it is hard to have 5 in a single city, let alone 8 o 10.

Yes they are generally founded in different cities for the most part. But I send missionaries out to all my cities and only Rarely have 1 fail. If it does I send a 2nd or 3rd and the religion gets spread. And it's Not hard to have 5-10 religions in a city. Especially so if you use the Multiple religion Option in the BUG Option screen.

But if you can found them all in the same city, you don't need to do this.
Why not? If you want a Religious Victory you Better be sending out missionaries even If you could found all your Religions in the Capitol.

Also, that means you can build all those Holy City Shrines in that city, and this, combined with the civic State Church that gives every Shrine +25% gold, is just nuts.
No it's actually Not. And why would you restrict it to just 1 city even if it is the capitol? The Civic is used Empire wide. And why place all your "eggs" in one basket for the AI to invade and capture. Bad strategy to build all Holy Shrines in one city.


And in the games I have used these in, the smart way to do it is to use the first few to research religion founding techs, denying those religions to the AI, and then just hogging all the rest of the later religious techs, meaning that the AI can't have any of the free Great Prophets they generate.

Bottom line: the Great Prophets are too powerful to get like this.

This only happens with DP And that the Tech tree still has too many of the Religion founding tech reliant upon earlier religion founding techs. I got the Poly/Mono/Buddhist line broke up a version or 2 back but no further progress has been made to separate the pathing and reduce this type of behaviour. It's not been a high priority.

Bottom line, for you right now is you should stop using DP because you exploit it's weaknesses. Go back to using the Standard BtS option and maybe even add in the Multiple Religion Option. Play that for awhile to get a different perspective.

JosEPh :)
 
Well whatever you guys think is best in the end. I always saw 2 major pet peeves with the default system.

One there was no way near enough religions to represent things, but yes to change to many ......more tweaking would required. You can not tell me the reformation was not important, and that the protestant versus catholic fight did not have consequences.

Two what the hell do these technologies that you take for the religion have to do with religion. I mean there are really spiritual theologies at the time that were considered innovation that led to ideas that formed modern religions.

For example, Divine Right..? Divine right has been around forever. There are real doctrines that explain the rationale behind Islam. I just wish some of these would be explored.

This does not compute in civ terms because somehow it has to be something intelligent that can help your civ in someway. Why not have the tech just freaking worthless other than for founding the religion so when a computer opponent selects that route they are loosing advancement for it. How default civ handled it is you had to get a religion in order to advance.

Well there is my rant. I totally will understand why people will disagree with me, but most of the disagreement will be I don't want to change the game too much and have to rebalance it.
 
I have always found that the Renaissance and Industrial periods go by in a blur, with a tech taking 1-4 turns to discover. I then realised it is because my build priority is monasteries so I have 10+ in 5-10 cities. Monasteries are cheaper than temples and give better benefits. So something needs to be done about multiple monasteries in a city, but I have not seen any suggestion here that I like. Which is important because I will have to do the work. ;)

You can change them to +:science: instead of +:science:%. That would help reduce their power. Also increasing their cost would help (at least more expensive than temples).
 
Well whatever you guys think is best in the end. I always saw 2 major pet peeves with the default system.

One there was no way near enough religions to represent things, but yes to change to many ......more tweaking would required. You can not tell me the reformation was not important, and that the protestant versus catholic fight did not have consequences.

Two what the hell do these technologies that you take for the religion have to do with religion. I mean there are really spiritual theologies at the time that were considered innovation that led to ideas that formed modern religions.

For example, Divine Right..? Divine right has been around forever. There are real doctrines that explain the rationale behind Islam. I just wish some of these would be explored.

This does not compute in civ terms because somehow it has to be something intelligent that can help your civ in someway. Why not have the tech just freaking worthless other than for founding the religion so when a computer opponent selects that route they are loosing advancement for it. How default civ handled it is you had to get a religion in order to advance.

Well there is my rant. I totally will understand why people will disagree with me, but most of the disagreement will be I don't want to change the game too much and have to rebalance it.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Multiple Religions founded on your work?

If it is then it's the system I prefer.

I'd also prefer to Not have monasteries messed with any more. As I've stated before we went thru all this before in RoM and AND's development stages. We already have 5 options: Standard BtS, Multiple, Limited, Choose, and Divine Prophet.

So far it seems to be DP that needs the tweaking. And Choose is just a reminder function that could be eliminated in my book.

JosEPh
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Multiple Religions founded on your work?

I do not know the work. I have been gone a while. If it is no one ever told me about it. If it is that is like most of the stuff it ends up somewhere and I never know if anything I did contributed to it or not.

I do not have time to play the game. I am running in overdrive with my school now. I am not taking breaks at all during the year so usually very busy. Right now I am cursing myself for getting into these forums because I have to write 4 more papers in the next 2 weeks. Once I really get a break I need to download everything and give it a look.
 
I do not know the work. I have been gone a while. If it is no one ever told me about it. If it is that is like most of the stuff it ends up somewhere and I never know if anything I did contributed to it or not.

I do not have time to play the game. I am running in overdrive with my school now. I am not taking breaks at all during the year so usually very busy. Right now I am cursing myself for getting into these forums because I have to write 4 more papers in the next 2 weeks. Once I really get a break I need to download everything and give it a look.

Hey there, old friend, how ya doing, was surprised to see you back after so many years:eek:
 
Nevermind after look at the entire thread here.... I do not know what the hell you guys have in the mod. I see some hints like Bahiaism being used for example, but do not know if it was just cherry picking from my stuff or not.

I think multiple religions sound as if one tech holds more than one religion. If that is what it does it has nothing to do with rapture. Rapture has a prophet forcing a religion to be founded based on what group it belongs to. For example protestant from catholic.

Mostly things I have in Rapture are in the dll not some python script. You can define things by XML. Anyway if someone needs me just send me an email.
 
Hey there, old friend, how ya doing, was surprised to see you back after so many years:eek:

Hi. I am not really here still though. Browsing forums and have no clue what the hell you guys really have done.:lol: Looks like this is the last mod really with some real innovation going on.

Sorry I am interested in the mod, but seriously am under time constraints to mod. I sound like some old bastard you know just going hey hey you should do this by posting. If there is something specific you guys need that I can only answer..hit me up with an email.
 
@johny_smith here is a executive summary. ;)

I took over AAranda's stuff when his computer crashed big time and he was in not expecting to get a new one since. I then modified Shinto and got the AI to use Druid and Shaman. Then people asked for more religions. I hunted for art and units all over the place and eventually got Bahai, Jainisna and Sikhism in a form equating to std BtS. Then there was a detailed request for Mormon which I cobbled together.

Multiple Religion spread is something I asked Afforess about. It allows a religion to auto-spread to a city even if it already has one.

I have also added the female missionaries by SaibotLieh.

I did try obsoleting some religions but had to remove most of that due to complaints.

Divine Prophets is an option, which I don't use. It gives you a Great Prophet instead of the religion. You can then found that religion (or earlier) in any city you choose. The AI uses it properly, humans can cheat the system to get a huge tech advantage instead.

That is all that is different with regards to religions in C2C from BtS.

I don't do SDK so I have not looked into your mechanisms but I have looked at the WorldReligions mod for ideas but not implemented any yet.

Edit I also pinched/rused sounds and cutscenes from all over - mostly Rapture and JARM
 
Well then after understanding what is in the mod religion wise...Then no wonder you guys disagree. You are taking some lesser practiced religions and raising them it seems to an equal status to religions that have significant numbers of followers.

Mormonism is a religion, but not trying to be offensive here...it is not equal in importance to entire Christianity. I am not saying it could not be in the future. Just saying it is not as historically important as orthodox or protestant faiths. Basically I would suggest the original idea that I was working on in Rapture. Grouping I would group some these to make more rational sense instead of just throwing some low number followed religion in.

I am an anthropologist so take these suggestions with a grain of salt. Shamanism is stupid as one religion imo. There is no one shamanism. Shinto does not come directly from Buddhism. The beliefs are very distinct. Japanese believe it dates before the Chinese migration. Druidism is a created idea in the 1800's that was used to describe Celtic beliefs based on text written before describing the priest. They were not animal friendly they sacrificed them in original Celtic religions, but of course the later version tried to turn it into something else.

Basic summary you need to read more on real use of religions, and those darn names by pagan revivalist usually are only vaguely linked to the original religion. Humans like making things up when it comes to religion.:eek:

Just saying I would objectively look at most religions practiced not public stereotypes. For example Chinese folk religion is practiced by many people and is separate from Taoism or various other Chinese ideologies. There are plenty more of hardly noticed religions. The bling ones are overstated. I have religions forced into groups intentionally to give entire regions some representation instead of overly focusing on a particular religion. If you don't care. Then ignore all of this. If anyone is interested let me know. I am taking a vacation from the forums now again.
 
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