C2C: Promotions

Hydromancerx · May 15, 2012

ls612 said:
@Hydro: Sorry, I didn't realize that's what you wanted with the Riot Control promotion. My vision of it was that Law units could get it for free, but other units could take it normally, instead of promoting their combat strength they get basic training in policing.

If other units could get it then there would be no reason to build the law enforcement units. Much cheaper to build average units without building a police station or the cost of a police unit. That's why that line of promotions is for those units ONLY.

Thunderbrd · May 15, 2012

Sgtslick said:
Since we have the infinite xp how can I remove those 2 promotions that extend xp cap?? Can i delete them from an .xml somewhere or something?

They are pissing me off coz the dumb ai picks them as there first promotion.. idiots

Infinite xp will not aid in overcoming those limits since we have these promos for that. Infinite xp is only a way to keep from sliding back to a set amount when you upgrade. These are still important but I think its important we give them a prereq of hunter or Forestry (for animals) and Combat II or Guerrilla (for barbs) to keep the barbarian ai from using it too extensively where its pointless... this would be a quickpatch fix to that problem that wouldn't require complex ai programming in the dll and would also keep you from picking them up earlier than necessary.

@Hydro: I completely agree about the Law Enforcement line. I would strongly urge, however, to rename the Riot Control promotions to Crime-Fighter I-V and retain the term Riot Control for a line of promotions that will reduce revolt times in cities and the chance for that city to split off from the empire if you're on Rev. Not all crime is a riot.

Hydromancerx · May 15, 2012

Thunderbrd said:
@Hydro: I completely agree about the Law Enforcement line. I would strongly urge, however, to rename the Riot Control promotions to Crime-Fighter I-V and retain the term Riot Control for a line of promotions that will reduce revolt times in cities and the chance for that city to split off from the empire if you're on Rev. Not all crime is a riot.

Sure. The name was just taken from the promotion that the Riot Police had. As long as it has the same effect (and button) I don't really care if its called Riot Control or Crime Fighter.

strategyonly · May 15, 2012

Sgtslick said:
Since we have the infinite xp how can I remove those 2 promotions that extend xp cap?? Can i delete them from an .xml somewhere or something?

He is correct, in that the AI is selecting the promotion "first." see attached

Koshling · May 15, 2012

strategyonly said:
He is correct, in that the AI is selecting the promotion "first." see attached

When you have the option on thatenables fractional experience (forget which it is - anyone remember??), the xp caps don't operate, so these promotions actually do nothing, but the AI doesn't realise that.

The AI promotion choice generally needs work, but in the short term (for these two specifically) I think we need to just find a way to disable them when fractional experience is enabled. Is there a tag that allows game-option dependencies in the promotion XML or something? The DLL cannot do it from current info itself becaus these are Python-mediated promotions whose purpose is essentailly invisible to the DLL.

ls612 · May 15, 2012

Hydromancerx said:
If other units could get it then there would be no reason to build the law enforcement units. Much cheaper to build average units without building a police station or the cost of a police unit. That's why that line of promotions is for those units ONLY.

Ah, alright, I'll change it back.

Thunderbrd · May 15, 2012

Koshling said:
When you have the option on thatenables fractional experience (forget which it is - anyone remember??), the xp caps don't operate, so these promotions actually do nothing, but the AI doesn't realise that.

The AI promotion choice generally needs work, but in the short term (for these two specifically) I think we need to just find a way to disable them when fractional experience is enabled. Is there a tag that allows game-option dependencies in the promotion XML or something? The DLL cannot do it from current info itself becaus these are Python-mediated promotions whose purpose is essentailly invisible to the DLL.

It's Dynamic XP and I can't stand it because it actually makes it far more difficult to level up. Its also an option changeable in mid-game, therefore, even if you conditionally disable these promotions, it doesn't mean they wouldn't become useful later if the player suddenly changes his mind on the game settings. The ai seems to like to default to them so I'd think making giving them enough prereqs that once they were chosen they might be useful (except for barbarians) might be the best solution. This is not to say that making them conditional on non-Dynamic XP wouldn't be a good idea as well, assuming that players will keep the selection they start off with. I can just see it being a bit manipulatable.

strategyonly · May 15, 2012

Thunderbrd said:
It's Dynamic XP and I can't stand it because it actually makes it far more difficult to level up. Its also an option changeable in mid-game, therefore, even if you conditionally disable these promotions, it doesn't mean they wouldn't become useful later if the player suddenly changes his mind on the game settings. The ai seems to like to default to them so I'd think making giving them enough prereqs that once they were chosen they might be useful (except for barbarians) might be the best solution. This is not to say that making them conditional on non-Dynamic XP wouldn't be a good idea as well, assuming that players will keep the selection they start off with. I can just see it being a bit manipulative.

Yeah i dont like it at all either, i never play with that on or the Withdraw option either.

Thunderbrd · May 15, 2012

Oh, now I do like defender withdraw a lot. That said, one of my next projects should make it a bit more balanced by providing some units and promos with the power to impede their opponent's withdraw chances without the use of pure brute overpowering force.

BlueGenie · May 16, 2012

And here I love the Dynamic XP, see how different peoples style of play is.
I like that it takes a bit longer to get your levels, means one needs to nurture the units one has.

Cheers

Il Principe · May 17, 2012

BlueGenie said:
And here I love the Dynamic XP, see how different peoples style of play is.
I like that it takes a bit longer to get your levels, means one needs to nurture the units one has.

Cheers

I like it for it´s pure realism. A troop of riflemen just doesn´t learn as much about fighting when defending against a duck as it does from succesfully going against a gattling gun.

xartah · May 17, 2012

Il Principe said:
I like it for it´s pure realism. A troop of riflemen just doesn´t learn as much about fighting when defending against a duck as it does from succesfully going against a gattling gun.

It's not really that realistic though. A hard fight might teach a bit more than an easy one but high casualties mean that much of the experience is lost and has to be replaced by green troops. I guess it could be explained by only the unit leader experience being counted so that troop casualties don't matter.

little_cyclone · May 19, 2012

Hydromancerx said:
If other units could get it then there would be no reason to build the law enforcement units. Much cheaper to build average units without building a police station or the cost of a police unit. That's why that line of promotions is for those units ONLY.

Just playing devils advocate at this point, but there are things called "Military Police"

Why not allow regular military units to get the initial law enforcement promotion (and only the initial law enforcement promotion) requiring combat 1 or 2 for them, while the regular law enforcement units start with it and can get all the advanced promotions?

Just my 2

strategyonly · May 19, 2012

little_cyclone said:
There are things called "Military Police" Why not allow regular military units to get the initial law enforcement promotion (and only the initial law enforcement promotion) requiring combat 1 or 2 for them, while the regular law enforcement units start with it and can get all the advanced promotions? Just my 2

Infact i was in the Military Police Company and my Additional Military Occupational Specialty is in the MP arena.

Hydromancerx · May 19, 2012

little_cyclone said:
Just playing devils advocate at this point, but there are things called "Military Police" Why not allow regular military units to get the initial law enforcement promotion (and only the initial law enforcement promotion) requiring combat 1 or 2 for them, while the regular law enforcement units start with it and can get all the advanced promotions? Just my 2

Oh I know. My dad was a cop in the the US air force. I just think for the sake of game balance we could keep those promotions to those units. Perhaps a small military police promotion separate from that set of promotions could be made. But it should be very hard to get since there are a lot of penalties for getting the law enforcement units. Perhaps the promotion would cost a bunch of gold or they are more costly to upgrade or something.

little_cyclone · May 20, 2012

Hydromancerx said:
Oh I know. My dad was a cop in the the US air force. I just think for the sake of game balance we could keep those promotions to those units. Perhaps a small military police promotion separate from that set of promotions could be made. But it should be very hard to get since there are a lot of penalties for getting the law enforcement units. Perhaps the promotion would cost a bunch of gold or they are more costly to upgrade or something.

My concern is having so many different specialized units that smaller nations will not be able to manage due to not being able to afford having as many different units at once. I would think at least giving the regular units access to the first promotion of that branch of the promotion tree (and just the first) and leaving the further advanced promotions of that branch to the specialized units might alleviate it some.

However I have been considering promotions that could cost gold to attach to units and that could be an interesting divergence to pursue as well

I've been playing some Master of Mana as of late and there is a system there in place where players can 'purchase' various pieces of 'equipment' for their units (giving differing bonuses). Unfortunately MoM utilizes a complex resource system we could simply supplant for straight up gold purchasing..

BlueGenie · May 20, 2012

About the Promotions ls612 has set in, the Hit and Run, Forward Observer, and so on, shouldn't the Recon available promotions also be available to Hunters? At least Hit and Run isn't something a non-attacking Recon unit can even do.

Cheers

Hydromancerx · May 20, 2012

BlueGenie said:
About the Promotions ls612 has set in, the Hit and Run, Forward Observer, and so on, shouldn't the Recon available promotions also be available to Hunters? At least Hit and Run isn't something a non-attacking Recon unit can even do.

Cheers

That's not a bad idea to expand those to the Hunter units too.

strategyonly · May 20, 2012

Isn't there any Archery upgrades for the Atl Atl??

Also whom ever does the turn length, either Hydro or ls612, just got to Ancient Era and Agriculture is over 100 turns on Snail??? :eek:

BlueGenie · May 20, 2012

strategyonly said:
Also whom ever does the turn length, either Hydro or ls612, just got to Ancient Era and Agriculture is over 100 turns on Snail???

It'll go down in # of turns, especially once you get Tribalism and toss out a few more cities.

Cheers

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