When is it time to build some walls?

T

TheologiaCrucis

Warlord
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
107
I was just wondering when people tend to put walls into the build order. I used to never build them, but now I force myself to do so, after having been sneak attacked by civs so many times. Also, do walls make it less likely for an opponent AI to attack you?
 
I usually neglect walls and just purchase them if I'm being attacked and have a woefully insufficient number of units nearby to defend. :p
 
Usually never. If I'm at peace, there are much better things to build. If an AI is about to attack me, units are probably going to do more for me than Walls.
 
If playing Babylon, if you even think you might be attacked, Walls of Babylon are worth it since these are extra strength.

Otherwise, cash rush on the border city you are setting up as a kill zone if attacked, with walls also boosting the city's bombard strength it really helps against Shaka and other AIs who send foot soliders.

Otherwise cities that won't get attacked nor used as kill zones won't need defense structures. But if one of your cities is within 2 hexes of a mountain, you might want to later build walls & castles anyway just for the Disneyland castle bonus.

In addition, defense structures is part of the calculation the AI uses for military strength, so these will make you look stronger to the AI,
 
Only time I ever burn production on walls is if I get that castle wonder that I'm not going to attempt to spell. Otherwise I generally ignore them unless I have a city getting attacked and think I might lose it, in which case I'll just buy them. I tend to concur with the idea that a unit would almost always be a better investment.
 
Right around the time you learn masonry!
...unless you have no neighbours or are playing at lower level. However, I think it's best to buy if you can.
 
I'd agree that on single player, at any difficulty level, there's rarely any occasion that you want to waste hammers or gold on walls, but joncnunn has mentioned the exceptions. Strongly disagree with WalterR: its all about opportunity cost. Any gold you buy walls with is gold that isn't being put to better purpose.

I'm not much of a multiplayer gamer though: how have people found walls in MP games? With the much higher military aggression levels of such games, I suspect they may have more value.
 
Doktor Vic Tim said:
Well, now I know what I'll be calling the Neuschwanstein.
Click to expand...

I'm afraid I can't take credit for it, there was an April Fools post a few months before G&K release that among other things announced that G&K was including a new world wonder named Disneyland.
 
Since the Halloween patch, Ogilarchy has ' upped ' city defenses, making it a harder nut to crack.
LET Bozo try to knock over my 50+ defense (walls, castle, crossbow, Red Fort) !!, with a bunch of grunts and archers nearby; c'mon, BRING IT !!!
 
basically early on there's not much point in putting them up unless you're getting attacked and you have Walls of Babylon. Otherwise I think with the new patch oligarchy is enough.

The other thing might be that you're playing Gandhi and want to hit Mughal Forts, so putting walls in there is useful. Otherwise it's just better to wait until you get the Neuschwanstein. (Hah I can spell it!)
 
I have built walls before and regretted it. A city bombard attack just doesn't give you any experience. Ironically, the one civ I build walls for is India--not Babylon. Babylon has beefed up Bowmen. Why would I want to divert hammers away from that?
 
joncnunn said:
In addition, defense structures is part of the calculation the AI uses for military strength, so these will make you look stronger to the AI.
Click to expand...

I don't have numbers, but this aspect has seemed to have help my games. Since I first learned of it, I have been building defensive structures more, and the DOWs seem fewer. It's just my very subjective experience though, as I have also been trying to build more units.

Two other data points not mentioned so far: Unlike units, walls (etc.) are zero maintenance. Autocracy has a tenant where castles (etc.) provide happiness.
 
Sessy said:
basically early on there's not much point in putting them up unless you're getting attacked and you have Walls of Babylon. Otherwise I think with the new patch oligarchy is enough.

The other thing might be that you're playing Gandhi and want to hit Mughal Forts, so putting walls in there is useful. Otherwise it's just better to wait until you get the Neuschwanstein. (Hah I can spell it!)
Click to expand...
I think the opposite. Walls are more important early. On Emperor or Immortal, I almost always get DOW from some warmonger neighbor and a city with walls is very effective at killing units, specially range and siege units.

If going Honor or Autocracy, walls are pre-requisite to get bonus from certain SPs.
 
I usually do the same as aggressive wimp and buy them when I get attacked. Also I build walls/castle if I choose autocracy and have happiness issues.
 
In addition to the excellent points made in this thread, I'll add another:

If it's going to take me, say, 5 turns to build Oxford University, and the tech I'm currently researching will take 7 turns to finish, and Walls will take 2 turns to build, I'll cue them up beforehand to time things correctly.

Ideally, I should cue up something else I plan on building, switch to Oxford after 2 turns, then finish building the other thing after it's done. But I find more often than not I'll forget to make that switch 2 turns in because I have some many other things going on.

It's just like how I press "Next Turn" and then tell myself to remember to do X when it's my turn again. But, inevitably, a couple leaders will come visit for trades, and I get a pop up that I researched a new tech, and I get a pop up that I entered a new Era, and I get a pop up that I entered a Golden Age, and I get a pop up listing who likes shiny things the most, and I ultimately forget to do X after all that. Having ADD sucks!
 
Asklepios said:
Strongly disagree with WalterR: its all about opportunity cost. Any gold you buy walls with is gold that isn't being put to better purpose..
Click to expand...

I take your point and I agree, I should have stated that I'm talking G&K: where as you know the AI is pathologically aggressive. Example: current game I spawned next to Atilla, Cathy, Washington and Alex - yum! Got invaded very early by Cathy's suspiciously large army, and was within a whisker of losing capital before I killed off her last melee unit; I bet the rush-bought walls made the difference. In that case it was the opportunity to keep my capital.
 
Aside from when I'm in a perilous situation near a warmonger, I'll build them when I find a time that they can be built quickly and there is nothing else to build at the moment. And of course, if I can get Neuschwanstein, then walls in every city are a must.
 
Yeah, I usually tend to procrastinate when it comes to walls, but I don't think that they're useless. I think that people can assume that they are fine without them because they figure that if they rushed they can just rage quit and reroll. But if you were truly playing to win at all costs like it was your last game ever you would want to build them when things were slow.
 
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