BNW Deity Tier List

fallout3dc said:
America is one of the best civs in the game on multiplayer. Faith healers and B17 bombers is practically an instant win.
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Lol, who cares about multiplayer? Civ 5 MP is such a joke... every game is the same - Tradition peace-fest for 200 turns then whichever player has the most Uranium/Oil makes other players rage-quit... oops I mean "concede", no-quitters aren't allowed to rage-quit :lol:
 
Paszczak said:
Lol, who cares about multiplayer? Civ 5 MP is such a joke... every game is the same - Tradition peace-fest for 200 turns then whichever player has the most Uranium/Oil makes other players rage-quit... oops I mean "concede", no-quitters aren't allowed to rage-quit :lol:
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Haven't seen a 200 turn peacefest in a while. And even if its peacefest people are still contesting land and resources and cold warring in order to get ahead for late game.
 
I'd KILL for the opportunity to get to turn 200 and have people rage quit on me. Multiplayer doesn't really work for me at all. After a random period of time (5,50,150 mins), the server disconnects me and my friend.

From the research I've done on forums, I would estimate that the majority of players are unable to complete a whole game.

I've finally got 2K games and Aspyr to talk to each other and put me in touch with a developer. I hope they solve the problem soon.

But yeah, this thread specifically says single player, so it doesn't matter how good America are on MP. On single player they are completely mediocre.
 
dragonxxx said:
some part of these tier lists are all about personal preference. I strongly disagree with some of the OP's choises.

Having Rome two tiers over Greece and Sweden, and 3 tiers over America doesn't really feel right to me. For me, Rome should be in the bottom tier list - there is simply not much there. You get some situational free hammers for buildings and thats it. Unique units are somewhat useless, as even if you go early domination, you can skip both and still do fine. I'd play Danmark over them any day.
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"Some" being 25% more.
"Situational" being that you've put that building in your Capital, which gets every building worth having.
"Buildings" being one of the things you build the most of.

Ballista is a bit "meh", but the Legion can get that Road network going and free up Worker turns for more important stuff. Legion's also scary strong, stronger than Pikemen, which is the strongest unit anyone going center/top of tech tree can send against you.
 
Legion might be OK, but its on a bad spot in the tech tree. Its other problem is that its a melee unit - I'd spend the same amount of hammers making CBs, which are not only better for both defence and offence, but also their tech is useful too.

About the UA:

Yes, you need buildings everywhere. Problem is its not 25% bonus all the time:

1) Stable, Forge, Stoneworks, Water Mill, Hydro Plant etc. - sometimes you can't build em in Rome, but in the expos.
2) Some buildings you simply want to build everywhere asap (like workshop and factory), so you don't wait to wait to build it in rome first.
 
dragonxxx said:
Legion might be OK, but its on a bad spot in the tech tree. Its other problem is that its a melee unit - I'd spend the same amount of hammers making CBs, which are not only better for both defence and offence, but also their tech is useful too.

About the UA:

Yes, you need buildings everywhere. Problem is its not 25% bonus all the time:

1) Stable, Forge, Stoneworks, Water Mill, Hydro Plant etc. - sometimes you can't build em in Rome, but in the expos.
2) Some buildings you simply want to build everywhere asap (like workshop and factory), so you don't wait to wait to build it in rome first.
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for the things you want to build everywhere asap - there is always the option to rushbuy in Rome ...
 
Greece is absolutely top-tier deity if you max your CS count. That was one of my easiest deity games, on standard speed.

Marathon speed also completely changes this deity tier list, except for Babylon (who is still good, thanks to Bowmen). Songhai and Germany just completely rule the map. Assyria gets the edge science-wise by CLASSICAL.
 
tetley said:
Greece is absolutely top-tier deity if you max your CS count. That was one of my easiest deity games, on standard speed.
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I think I have already mentioned this but yeah, Greece is at least 2 tiers higher if you meet most CS and properly use them ;) it is just so much easier to play with Greece and so many allies.
 
After just finishing a game as Sweden, I'd support their move to Mid tier from Lower Mid Tier. The description of "Solid bonuses, sometimes affected by factors outside their control" is spot on. Even with the tundra bias, I found that the area immediately surrounding Stockholm still wasn't bad.

Even if the area you spawn in is initially unappealing, I doubt you're more than bout a turn or two from better terrain by walking. This is a strategic decision in the first couple turns that leads me to say that even their worse starts can be played out of.

The UA in my last game came in quite handy. I used my Honor great general to ally a Maritime city-state I otherwise couldn't have, which compensated for food and gave me some more happiness. Some early fending off DOWs led to another General, and I sacrificed my first writer to buy a Cultural CS's loyalty: probably generated more culture overall than keeping the great work and I didn't need an amphitheatre.

TLDR: One more vote here for Sweden to go up a tier.
 
I don't really understand how people are so easily justifying wasting two policies for 30 turns of being friends with a city state, the cost of those policies is absolutely enormous in the long term.
 
Ortus said:
I don't really understand how people are so easily justifying wasting two policies for 30 turns of being friends with a city state, the cost of those policies is absolutely enormous in the long term.
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Just so it's clear, this is not what I'M suggesting, and I seem to be the one who stoked the argument back up again about Sweden.

If you want a religion, which is pretty hard to get on Deity, and you find a religious CS close to you, you can have a religion with Sweden.

Other than that early gift, I think that I would TRY to use as many of the GP as possible. I think Sweden work best when you keep 90% of the GP. That said, when you give a GP it's a lot more than 30 turns. You've misrepresented their benefit in your statement.

Assuming you have Patronage, then the gift means you are pretty much likely to be allies for a long time. If you have Papal Primacy, even longer. Go back and retry them and see how easy it is to win with them in any VC.
 
Ortus said:
I don't really understand how people are so easily justifying wasting two policies for 30 turns of being friends with a city state, the cost of those policies is absolutely enormous in the long term.
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Well it's 40 turns since you'd at least have Pledge to Protect giving you a base of 10. Also it's much easier to maintain an alliance then to get one in the first place. It's quite common to complete quests without actively doing anything. Not too mention A religious or cultural CS will help you complete these accidental quests anyways.

But the end of the day it's because those policies aren't wasted. They still provide the benefit of the policy. And earning GG 50% faster is very useful to Sweden, and your also 1 policy away from a +50% experience policy which is a great policy and doubly so for Sweden.
 
Sorinth said:
Well it's 40 turns since you'd at least have Pledge to Protect giving you a base of 10. Also it's much easier to maintain an alliance then to get one in the first place. It's quite common to complete quests without actively doing anything. Not too mention A religious or cultural CS will help you complete these accidental quests anyways.

But the end of the day it's because those policies aren't wasted. They still provide the benefit of the policy. And earning GG 50% faster is very useful to Sweden, and your also 1 policy away from a +50% experience policy which is a great policy and doubly so for Sweden.
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PoP only applies 5 influence now, I still do it but its only 35 turns
 
Ortus said:
I don't really understand how people are so easily justifying wasting two policies for 30 turns of being friends with a city state, the cost of those policies is absolutely enormous in the long term.
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"Waste" is a strong word. I fully intended to finish Honour as (in my opinion) Sweden should be out kicking butt with those awesome Caroleans. Getting more Generals and Admirals is worth it too. Considering that, the trade is back to one Great General for one allied city-state for minimum thirty turns.

In practice I find it's more than thirty: pledge to protect adds five, and the odd quest or swatted barbarian adds more. The biggest difference is that swatting a barbarian normally gives 12 Influence, amounting to bugger all unless more barbarians show up: now it's 12 more turns allied.
 
Gifting GG as Sweden to a faith CS is a cool idea. When you get that first one from Honor, getting the second doesn't lag that far behind if you are out warring right.
 
tetley said:
Gifting GG as Sweden to a faith CS is a cool idea. When you get that first one from Honor, getting the second doesn't lag that far behind if you are out warring right.
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Just tried this. It absolutely gets you a Pantheon in short order but won't get enough faith for your first prophet. I tried this with a very strong naval start to see if I could keep a religion with God of the Sea as my pantheon. I managed it, but it was close.

My takeaways were:
1) if going Honour, giving away the first General is a decent move. The next one's quite close when you need him.
2) caveat to above: not worth going hard into Honour only for the general. You must make the tree worth it. Suggest Honour as second tree, maybe 2-3 policies deep before rationalism.
3) Piety for "To the Glory of God" could be interesting at any level. Buying all kinds of crap great people the are cheap (a Merchant, Admiral, extraneous GWAM, etc).
4) Sweden really should get some aggressive play in. Never spawning Generals/Admirals is a waste because the extras truly are redundant and make GREAT gifts.
 
dragonxxx said:
Legion might be OK, but its on a bad spot in the tech tree. Its other problem is that its a melee unit - I'd spend the same amount of hammers making CBs, which are not only better for both defence and offence, but also their tech is useful too.

About the UA:

Yes, you need buildings everywhere. Problem is its not 25% bonus all the time:

1) Stable, Forge, Stoneworks, Water Mill, Hydro Plant etc. - sometimes you can't build em in Rome, but in the expos.
2) Some buildings you simply want to build everywhere asap (like workshop and factory), so you don't wait to wait to build it in rome first.
Click to expand...

Rome's UA seems lacking at first, but after using it several times I think that it is very powerful and underrated. With proper play the UA applies to every turn of nearly every building that your satellite cities will construct. Early on this is simply because of the capital's headstart. But once you have a strong economy you are supposed to rush-buy every building in the capital as soon as it becomes available.

This is a very powerful snowball, as every structure will exist in your most important city on the very first turn it was available, and all of your other cities will receive 25% bonus hammers towards a very long list of structures. Satellite cities are always bottlenecked by hammers as your science researches new structures faster than they can be built.
 
adwcta said:
Oh god, we're still talking about Sweden? Is the Polynesia discussion coming back next? =P
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Aw, hell no. Polynesia deserves its low spot for meh UU, potentially interesting but hard to take advantage of UA, and UI of marginal value. Sweden though... I really think it's a spot too low on that list. The UA will be useful in pretty much any kind of game you want to play. I do respect that this horse has been beaten pretty hard though, and I'll table the issue.

New topic: why is Persia so high? As far as I know they don't have a start bias worth a damn (don't think they're a desert Civ, I seem to get Plains with them). I could see that rushing with Immortals in a Golden Age is strong, but they shouldn't rate above Assyria for Deity play; Assyria is both more dangerous and gains more from the tactic.
 
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