DISCLAIMER: I am an Emperor player trying to move up to Immortal, but I play a lot of games on Deity in order to test strategy. My opinion is therefore of perhaps limited value, but like a lot of players learning to get better, I want to separate good advice from bad. Seeing it in action visually helps.
this strategy is fully reproducable, its NOT setting or land depended!
With respect, I beg to differ. A great deal of the maps I've tried this on do not have suitable city locations with enough unique luxuries, and a very large number do not have trade routes to AI divs for science. Because your strategy is clever in that it brings about SP when they can deliver the most benefit, anything that throws the timing off can screw with it. I know you think it's flexible, but if any of what I call the 'annoying 3' are worse than normal (persistent barbs/no trade routes/aggressive AIs) then to my mind, it's not flexible enough. You say you don't make SP videos, but I think just among readers of this thread there are 20-50 people that would love to see a SP video using this strategy and a much more mediocre start.
I ran into serious gold and happiness problems following your BO with a fairly decent start in my capital, because the other city locations were a bit meh. In fact, I'd love some advice from the better players on what to do when there are NO good city locations and you want to pursue a peaceful CV. On domination, you stick to OCC/2 city NC and build an army to take other cities, right? But what about peace?
Also with the proposed city spreading every city should really have 2 lux (or horse) in atr least 3 tile ring - sometimes u have to buy tile when in 3rd ring, but with all this culture boarders expand fast anyway.
I'm sorry but I don't find this to be that common in my games.
Tried this build out and it certainly worked. I couldn't manage the absurd beakers in the screen shot but I was roughly level with the AI on tech by t160 (deity)
I tried this strategy and it worked pretty well for me, I posted my fastest deity victory to date.
Does anyone who used this strategy want to post a video, since the OP doesn't want to?
I like the basic idea of this strategy, but as with so many strategies that people propose on these forums, it unfortunately doesn't work out as simply as all that. Here are some of the problems I've noticed. The first is map placement. Sometimes you don't have room for four or five cities. The second is location. You may be in a location where you have city sites but they lack luxuries, and/or contain terrain that is inimical to fast growth, like tundra. The third is the barbarians. A single scout is not going to protect you from the barbarians, at least not on Emperor difficulty. You need some troops to fight them off. The fourth is trade. If you build your first caravan as indicated by this strategy and send it out, it will most likely be plundered by the barbarians. The end result of all this is that you're going to have a difficult time getting four or five cities up quickly, not to mention making them grow. Still, I think it's a good approach, even if it's not a guaranteed win.
This. ^^
I was trying a modified version of the opener playing as Moroccco. I was attacked by an AI with a large army, with only a warrior, a scout archer, and 370g in defense... and I eventually conquered the two-city French.
I'm sorry but I just can't believe this. Video please?
Hey Tommy, is there any chance that you could post a vid on your Youtube channel at some point? I've tried this opener a few times already but I've never been able to replicate your science output. I feel as though I must be missing something important that I'm just not seeing. I'm not expecting you to post another 600bpt by turn 150 game or anything, I would just like to see more of the nuances to the build that get lost in translation. It's working great, don't get me wrong, I just feel as though I could be doing things better. I'm really struggling with the science aspect moreso than anything else. I just can't even come close to what you managed to achieve. Even if I rush buy a Library to finish NC faster and power out my Universities + specialists in all 8 slots I'm still struggling to keep my science up. No idea what I'm doing wrong. Again, I'm not trying to call you out nor am I expecting you to post a perfect game or anything. I just want to see all of the little things that add up to being big things.
Seconded, please.
he has some pretty sweet dirt. 5 salts in his first 2 cities, irrigable wheats, tons of river, hills, other luxes, etc. It's not going to be doable every time.
Yes. I'd happily believe it's more flexible if I see it at work on a mediocre start.
i tried this and had a really hard time getting close to the screenshot. Here are some of the problems I encountered;
- Other aggressive civs.
- Barbarians surrounding me.
- No free available luxuries.
- No shot at getting haga sophia before AI
It looks like a great strat if you have the right map, I just don't see how you can make it to almost 30 people in your city that fast tho.
I had all of the above problems plus no trade partners for science caravans/ships. Not sure what the solution is, besides starting again with a different game and hoping for a better map.
I guess FOY helped significantly in this specific case - all cities can grow immidietly, withouth improving lux.
Yeah, that would help a LOT.
Tried another game just now and I have no shot at getting 4 cities close by on 4 reasonable luxuries. Not without settling on other civs and having them declare war on me :/
Playing on standard-pangaea, too small maybe?
This is what I find a lot of the time.
thanks for all the positive critisism!
Gives good feeling that my time at this forum isnt totaly wasted - even when some "guys" try to be annoying.
I don't see anyone trying to be annoying. People just have feedback and doubts. Expert players and beginners alike. Speaking purely for myself, I know that the best way for me to get better at a game is to find outside the box strategies. Many moons ago I was setting world records on GTA:SA by doing just that. Now I play Civ 5, and want to get a lot better. You may not understand the appeal of watching LP videos, but I really like them and find them really helpful.
It doesnt really matter to get lot of different lux just settle spots with SOME lux in SOME ring. If you tell me that there are maps where you cant find spots to settle with 2 lux or horse in like a like 30 tile ring - I will just not believe you ..
If you're still skeptical, I can give you one or two of the maps I tried your strategy on and you can tell me where you'd have settled?
Do you have any custom mods? I beginning to wonder if this is causing issues with aggression/expansion.
I have vanilla G+K and BNW and every one of my emp and immortal games in BNW has seen civs expand like cockroaches and be very aggressive. Yet there are other people who never see this.
I just started a deity game for kicks and this is my neighborhood. Already 3 cities for England, Rome and Ethopia. Suffice to say I'm restarting lol
Have to say this is my experience a lot of the time too. Either infested with spammers or empty and no trade partners. Rarely a balance or the two + a good start for luxes + barbs aren't out of control.
Thanks for the guide but please get a different screenshot as it's not an example for every map.
You have 2 wheat 3 salt start with 5 unique luxuries + FOY within ~12 tiles of your cap and plenty of food everywhere. This start is beyond godly.
Can you provide an example where you have no wheat/cows, not as many hills and only 4 unique luxuries in the 12 tile range, maybe add an aggressive neighbor too. I believe that would represent "every map" a lot better.
I'm not questioning the guide i just don't like the beyond godly start as an example for Poland specific guide.
I have been doing exactly this startegy now in several mp games and havent lost a single duel following it vs the 2 best players in world.
The sp sequence work with other civs as poland same good and land doesnt define a strategie but just few turn fater or slower win.
I commented on this before - the land is obviously good but godly starts involve mountain and deserts - both is missing - so land is just little bit above average (was my 1. roll btw)
Also I posted starting save - your welcome to do same good/better
i ll try upload of mp games with this strategy, I dont do sp videos anymore as 10h+ games are imo just too long and boring - cant believe some1 is really interested in see me click tiles - while mp allways involves same action.
How to deal with barbs in the early game on Quick (note, this is normal barbs, not raging)? They get archers and hand axes (and later spears) out very fast, which chew through scouts and warriors and then they pillage improvements like mad. With Archery coming so late in the tech order, it gets ugly. Even with Archery, it's still ugly, especially if there's vast badlands where they can spawn (e.g. snow and tundra).
Examples on Emperor:
http://i.imgur.com/URAxWl8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UZC0Egi.jpg (this is after clearing a camp early game too)
http://i.imgur.com/3KgXj0A.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/n66VzDn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/l74CAuV.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dqsbmi7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5OhtlaU.jpg
Anyone share tips on handling them?
I'd love to hear the answers to this too.
I always start my games with construction. Always. And archery comes second after pottery.
I guess you could also detour to bronze working for some spears, if you 're alone and don't want early construction. Or the wheel/horseback riding. Get some good units if you don't want it to be a pain, basically.
What would YOU replace with units in the build order? I love your videos the most and trust you the most of the known good players.
Tried this last night. Had to tweak a few things, and only got a turn 290 victory. I will say though that "only" 290 is a matter of perspective. Any strategy guide that gets you a turn 290 victory ain't half bad. ;-)
0) No trade routes. If I hadn't forward settled I would have had none at all, due to being on a peninsula. So I had no beakers from trade routes for a long time.
1) There weren't as many unique luxuries around me as the guide wanted there to be, so happiness was an issue until Freedom. I constantly had to slow my growth to stay at 0+ happiness, and I didn't even take a growth pantheon or religion. I took +2 happiness from Gardens (one of the only things left) and it's a good thing I did!
2) I had to forward-settle my second city to protect the rest of my peninsula, and I had to do it in a spot with no unique luxuries, but that spot had Lake Victoria, 3 fish, lots of jungle, hills and banana. :-D So happiness was REALLY an issue. That city was sick once I hit Freedom though.
3) I had to rush-buy a unit more than once to fend off barbarians. That slowed Universities by a fair amount of turns.
Same again.
In conclusion, my start was only so-so. The fact that I was protected from DoW was a big plus, but it was a slow start due to where I was forced to place my cities. I'm pretty sure you can consistently win on Diety with this strategy if you adapt to your starting location.
What does adapting mean as far as BO etc?
I would also love to have some tips on a Poland warmonger guide from you also, Tommynt. How would you change the strategy with that in mind?
Yeah, I'm keen on this too.
I know this a lot but for me this is an important thread.
R
