Babylon overrated?

Iberian · Sep 9, 2014

Where Babylon excels is that it is able to compete in almost every situation. If you get Arabia or Mongolia and find your self on a small continent with 1 other civ you are going to have a bad time.

If you are playing Pangea every time and making sure you have a good start for that civ then of course you like them.

CraigMak · Sep 9, 2014

Let me think here, double the science of everyone else, a crazy strong archer, crazy strong walls. Nope it is not possible to over rate this civ. It is free win mode.

OBRkenobi · Sep 9, 2014

babylon overrated?...nope ive won many games with them

Vitruvius · Sep 11, 2014

DarkestOnion said:
Babylon is okay, but it is not as useful for a SV as Korea imho.

Korea is harder to play and depend on the start. If start is food scarce and next to aggressive neighbor then it becomes quite hard. Babs basically negates the AI deity free techs and gives you more room to try different styles of play.

klaskeren · Sep 11, 2014

TBH i think babylon might be underrated

tinculin · Sep 12, 2014

Babylon is in a tier of its own, far superior to others with the only exception being a lucky Spain start.

The key difference here is that Babylon has an unparalleled early game which snowballs into a strong mid game all the time, Spain is very muh a gamble and (at least without retooling starts), you'll end up with a very weak UA.

johnny_rudeboy · Sep 12, 2014

I just love playing as Babylon. Don't always have to go for a SV since with the tech lead the get they can choose any direction they want. The Walls is great and get even better if you pick Tradition, as you should. And I usually get one if not both of my scouts upgraded to bowmen meaning I have two very mobile ranged units being able to guard the heart land. And since they have the same defensive strength as a cb and only 2 less in ranged strength (and since you get them early they will most likely be upgraded) there is really no need waste money on upgrading them meaning you can buy something else for that money, like ally a CS or buy a library for your 2nd or 3rd city.

Babylon is just the perfect civ

CivHeretic · Sep 12, 2014

tinculin said:
Babylon is in a tier of its own, far superior to others with the only exception being a lucky Spain start.

The key difference here is that Babylon has an unparalleled early game which snowballs into a strong mid game all the time, Spain is very muh a gamble and (at least without retooling starts), you'll end up with a very weak UA.

"Poland" is in a tier of it's own, far superior to others with the only exception being any Babylon start that isn't in the middle of the jungle.

Fixed.

johnny_rudeboy · Sep 13, 2014

CivHeretic said:
"Poland" is in a tier of it's own, far superior to others with the only exception being any Babylon start that isn't in the middle of the jungle.

Fixed.

Yeah, I had a couple of those horrible jungle starts where I can't even put down the academy until I have researched Bronze working so the jungle can be removed. And in the jungle you dont see the barbarians until it is to late so the academy usually gets plundered a lot. Best start is a non jungle start with lots of jungle in the 2nd and 3rd ring. That makes Babylon even more of an powerhouse.

phillipwyllie · Sep 13, 2014

I actually think Babylon is overrated, but I'm probably not playing them right by not planting my 2nd GS, or 3rd....I've rolled a decent coastal start so I'll try again but with the intention of planting all GS up until Scientific Theory.

CivHeretic · Sep 13, 2014

phillipwyllie said:
I actually think Babylon is overrated, but I'm probably not playing them right by not planting my 2nd GS, or 3rd....I've rolled a decent coastal start so I'll try again but with the intention of planting all GS up until Scientific Theory.

Yeah I recently won a Diety game as Babylon with a godly start on a Sandstorm map. I started in a position one turn from a hill+mountain location with double salt and double gold. Little did I know it was a triple salt with FIVE gold luxes. I was dropping my GS's on the flood plains and I was a clear tech+production leader the whole game with me getting early Petra.

BurnBabyBurn · Sep 14, 2014

I have just recently started playing Babylon, attempting to use their UU for a Pangea Rush. I have run into hurdles with hills/forests/jungles/mountains but more often than not I am quitting around the time I am going to hit XBows. I think I need to pace myself on what they're capable of doing and let their massive tech take over. If they hit a few lucky ruins they can more than match Deity Science. Also in Deity it's very easy to suffer an early rush without such a powerful UU that is = to CBs and you really don't have to research Construction but go straight for NC and then straight onto Oxford/Xbows/Artillery/etc...

Very powerful for warfare...I rarely get to burn down enemy cities that are using Medieval Weapons with Classical Weapons... Now I did have a bad start once wedged between Monty and Oda, both came at me with 30 Units : (

qemist · Sep 15, 2014

phillipwyllie said:
I actually think Babylon is overrated, but I'm probably not playing them right by not planting my 2nd GS, or 3rd....I've rolled a decent coastal start so I'll try again but with the intention of planting all GS up until Scientific Theory.

What happened to save all your GSs until you can start an unstoppable beaker overflow snowball? has that been nerfed or is it just infra dig?

phillipwyllie · Sep 16, 2014

qemist said:
What happened to save all your GSs until you can start an unstoppable beaker overflow snowball? has that been nerfed or is it just infra dig?

Since I'm aware of the exploit now I try not to use it, making sure the cheap techs are researched(even if not needed) before I bulb. I did try another game and although Scientific Theory wasn't gotten to any quicker mid game science did seem improved(probably due to Freedom). I still think Babylon is overrated as there are other ways to get buffs to GS generation as what happen to me in my current Poland game.

Trying a Poland 4-city Trad/mix on Archipelago I had the worst start I've ever played, not because of the dirt but because for about the first 140 turns I was :c5unhappy:

.Every civ I met had already traded their surplus luxuries. I was going to re-roll but decided to stick with it and fast-forward to a GE rush-built Notre Dame everything was rosy again. The weird thing was Venice proposed Science Funding on the second proposal and it passed. From then on I was generating GS every 6 turns or so.

Illianor123 · Sep 16, 2014

phillipwyllie said:
)I still think Babylon is overrated as there are other ways to get buffs to GS generation as what happen to me in my current Poland game.

Yes, there are other ways, but they can all be stacked with Babylon's ability, so nobody gains on them. And they don't come with Babylon's free +8 science at the beginning of the game (effectively double everyone else's output)

qemist · Sep 16, 2014

phillipwyllie said:
Since I'm aware of the exploit now I try not to use it, making sure the cheap techs are researched(even if not needed) before I bulb.

Heh, I remember that before that exploit was documented the forum experts all recommended GS saving because you "got more value bulbing many at once later". I'm not sure if they understood why, but now planting is back in fashion.

I have mixed feelings about it. It's an exploit, but no-one forced Firaxis to put beaker overflow inflation into the game. It serves no essential purpose, and they've had plenty of time to fix it.

phillipwyllie said:
Trying a Poland 4-city Trad/mix on Archipelago I had the worst start I've ever played, not because of the dirt but because for about the first 140 turns I was

I don't Poland much, but it seems like a plains and pastures civ, not archipelagic.

phillipwyllie said:
The weird thing was Venice proposed Science Funding on the second proposal and it passed. From then on I was generating GS every 6 turns or so.

That is weird. Usually the weird thing is every AI but one will want Arts Funding. They can't all be net winners from that.

phillipwyllie · Sep 16, 2014

Illianor123 said:
Yes, there are other ways, but they can all be stacked with Babylon's ability, so nobody gains on them. And they don't come with Babylon's free +8 science at the beginning of the game (effectively double everyone else's output)

I know but I'm probably not using Nebby right, perhaps someone could do a LP video.

qemist said:
...I don't Poland much, but it seems like a plains and pastures civ, not archipelagic....

Indeed, I was try ways to avoid the "you are building cities to aggressively" diplo modifier. It worked but I could only build one ducal stable and the :c5unhappy:

thing.

qemist said:
....That is weird. Usually the weird thing is every AI but one will want Arts Funding. They can't all be net winners from that....

I may have benefited scientifically but no-one generated any swappable art until I was well into the Information era, same went for artifacts. In fact i had to "borrow" most of my art in the end.

Acken · Sep 16, 2014

qemist said:
Heh, I remember that before that exploit was documented the forum experts all recommended GS saving because you "got more value bulbing many at once later". I'm not sure if they understood why, but now planting is back in fashion.

Planting is not back into fashion no. It's still often better to keep your GS for bulbing the key techs because their strength increases with your bpt. The overflow bug never was the reason.

KuntaSS · Sep 17, 2014

But your bpt increases when you plant, right? Isn't it better to plant early scientists that will pay for themselves by inflating your bpt, and also making later scientists more powerful, or should you plant none and rely on population and buildings to try to inflate your bpt?

Acken · Sep 17, 2014

There's some debate over the first one (maybe two) but after that the maths indicate it's not worth it. Of course babylon always plant their free one at writing. Depends how fast the game goes too, a 400 turns game benefits more from a T120 academy than a better player able to finish in 250 turns.

Babylon overrated?

Prince

The Borg

Chieftain

King

Prince

Chieftain

Warlord

Chieftain

Warlord

Wannabe Deity

Chieftain

Warlord

Prince

Wannabe Deity

Warlord

Prince

Wannabe Deity

Deity

Chieftain

Deity

Similar threads