Civilization 5 Steamworks questions/concerns for inclusion in the FAQ

Maybe we should limit the FAQ thread to questions and make it slightly easier for him to do his job?
If we post just questions, or answers that we can provide as a community I think this thread would be about half as big and a little easier to read...

for Greg:
Q: If we purchase any retail (i.e. B&M) CiV (V) will it run both on PC and Mac (when its supported) or will we need two copies.

Moderator Action: This thread is getting terribly off-topic, so I am unsticking it.
@2K Greg: if you wish to open another thread restricted to questions, please do so - we will need to strictly enforce a questions only policy in such a thread from the get go. I do not believe that its possible or indeed helpful to cull all the ongoing discussion from this thread.

It's no problem; I was going to suggest doing the same. All of the questions that have been coming up in the last many pages have all been repeats anyway; I definitely have an understanding of the core concerns people have. Thanks for stickying it in the first place. :)

The thread is open to all. ;) If we actually need to collect more questions it would be better to start another thread.
 
I don't understand the point of that post, nor how it follows from what I said.
It was more of a general point (There were a lot of people saying how Impulse was so much better than steam in this thread). Sorry if I confused you.
 
The proper metric of 2k's value of customer relations in the form of community communication is the number of people that they've assigned to the task, namely one. I suspect that's one more than most companies.

To use any other metric would be to tell Greg how he should be doing his job.
If this were true, then the (pick your government service) could claim exceptional service even if it sent all its worker to the beach. LOL

NO!
Customer relations may be incapable of making customers happy, or even satisfied, depending on whether there are unexplainable problems (BP Petroleum?) but they definitely should not be pissing off customers (ex?) by their actions (or lack thereof).
 
Is it wrong of us to tell him he should be doing his job as he told us he would?

You mean is it morally and ethically wrong to tell him to do his job? I don't think so, without public pressure, info would never be known until release date; after all he and Liz seem to not even be PR agents, but they are web engineers or something (they said) put into a job which they probably don't have experience or training to do properly.

Maybe we should limit the FAQ thread to questions and make it slightly easier for him to do his job?

I would have to say no. Greg is getting paid to do his job, and if it's too tough for him, he can quit and find something easier. What should happen is he should answer the questions that he said he would answer.

I think Greg should have enough information for all the steamworks questions (is steamworks really constantly changing that they cannot be answered now?). There are a few things perhaps unknown, but Greg2K should just have those 'to be answered once info is known' if there is no current answer yet.

It would be smart to make an ongoing effort with answers in the first several posts of the thread, and update them with new info as he gets it. Perhaps he doesn't know that this ability exists that he can edit threads and let us know when it happens with a new post.

It was more of a general point (There were a lot of people saying how Impulse was so much better than steam in this thread). Sorry if I confused you.

I think the point of Impulse better than Steam was in regards to the DRM aspect for the most part. Impulse doesn't have alot of the 2nd-hand features Steam does AFAIK. I don't care to play around on DRM systems though, I just want to play the game.

Chatting on a Digital Rights Management program installed on my hard drive and stuck in my registry isn't something I see as 'Fun'.
Steam is kinda like a grenade covered with a pile of toys, and telling people to go play with the toys that are available, and that if you have problems you can take your flak jacket off (AntiVirus) to make the toys work. :lol:
 
I wonder if the latest US Copyright Office Anticircumvention rulemaking would make it legal to get rid of the Steam DRM in order to protect oneself from having to expose personal data on the internet to a third party (Valve), which, in my book, is a security concern.
Basically, it's possible to get rid of the copyrights in this case:
(4) Video games accessible on personal computers and protected by technological protection measures that control access to lawfully obtained works, when circumvention is accomplished solely for the purpose of good faith testing for, investigating, or correcting security flaws or vulnerabilities, if:

(i) The information derived from the security testing is used primarily to promote the security of the owner or operator of a computer, computer system, or computer network; and
(ii) The information derived from the security testing is used or maintained in a manner that does not facilitate copyright infringement or a violation of applicable law.
Removing Steam requirement is correcting a perceived security flaw (providing personal data to a third party...
 
Here is a question, how many people are not getting Civ V because of security concers about personal information?
 
Ahhhh TY Greg! I imagine you breath a sigh of relief greater than mine?

Reading now...


EDIT:

Well not much new information afterall. Much of this is already found at Valves sites. Some was/and still is, in conflict with postings by steam users. I suppose different games may have different arrangements. Or the users lie. Or Valve sunnysides it. idk. Nothing changed for me. Will check back after release, once the CivCom has given it a thorough testing. I'm doubtful though that I can get past the monopolic steamrolling approach of the forced client.



The Official Civ5 Steamworks FAQ has been posted over on the 2K Forums:
http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=944015#post944015

And it's up before the end of July, just like I originally estimated! :mischief:

I have reproduced it in full here, as a courtesy to you:
Nice spin. Can't allow the customers any power. Call it a courtesy and ignore the stated purpose to which the rep was introduced for. And move the goalposts around in case some didn't notice. I hate marketing ploy. Its not a relationship of mutual respect. Its a one sided attempt to manipulate. Bah ;~p
 
My heart skipped a beat when I saw this! Thanks Greg!
 
Mods are not handled by Steam in any way, so questions about them are outside the scope of this FAQ. The questions that do mention mods in this FAQ are there because they directly relate to how Steam functions, such as auto-patching.

We'll be discussing mods a lot more in the future, and at that time I'll field questions about the specifics of how they will and will not work. :)

Excellent. This is my one and only concern about Steam.
 
This FAQ is very small and a lot of questions have not been answered.
Meh
 
I can assure that Auto-Patching will likely cause problems. Unless the mod creator keeps his mod updated throughout the whole lifetime of Civ 5, it will probably just cease to work at a forced update somewhere and no one will ever be able to play it ever again.

Absolute horrible thing to do for a game like this this 'Utlimate moddability'. So if you want to have the game patched to a certain version, Impossible to do. If something slips up and the game gets patched, nothing you can do because you either 1. reinstall and get auto-patched or 2. stay with the current up-to-date version. If it happens while you are in the middle of a modded game, OMG! Can't play the mod anymore until the creator can figure it all out and fix it.

I bet this was another grande idea of 2K. Good job guys... I'm still trying to figure out the ways that 2K has actually DONE ANYTHING TO HELP Firaxis. Only bad nasty vibes come from Take-2/2K.
 
Bold by me.

This is very much a Steam question. Steam is the Civ5 DRM correct? Question #2 of your own FAQ is answered "Steam will need to run when you play Civilization V" and we can't ever play Civ5 without Steam running in the background, even in offline mode. What reason would Steam be required to always run while Civ5 is being played other than if Steam is scanning the game for content?

Bello is simply asking what the rules are. This question has been repeatedly asked on this forum and so far has been ignored.

We are told how great Civ5 will be for mod creation and that is wonderful news, but if the Steam DRM won't allow us to play the mods we made then that is a problem.

Civ4 mods allowed the modification of any existing content. Will Civ5 be the same or will the always-on Steam DRM impose a new level of restrictions?


EDIT- Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions.
Given the answers to questions 5 and 11, I don't see how you can conclude that steam will scan game content. The reason for steam to run in the background is to track usage time, and to make the "steam overlay" work.
 
I don't have any information on how mods will or will not interact with DLC at this time. We'll be discussing mods in detail in the coming months, and at that time I'd be happy to answer all the questions I can manage about the modding system.

So you can't answer Bello's question after all. I understand you are just doing the job you are paid to do and believe it or not I respect that. At my job I too am sometimes forced to give "corporate-speak" answers or defer from answering difficult questions.

I received the true answer to Bello's question loud and clear.

Within a few days of release the truth will come out. Someone will mod existing content and we will see if the Steam DRM prohibits it or not. :)
 
Yes, between the lack of VAC and the info on what data steam collects, I don't see how it could possibly enforce further DRM restrictions.

You seriously can't see how the Steam DRM "could possibly enforce further DRM restrictions"? It's a DRM program - that's what is does is enforce DRM.

It is running while the game is on. If it finds banned content or mods that use existing content or DLC content the Steam DRM can prevent Civ5 from playing. This is exactly what Bello and others are concerned about and why the mod/DLC content questions keep getting asked.

If this concern is unfounded then all Greg had to do was make a simple statement to dispel our fears. As no such statement has been made, then the concern still exists.


Yes, it might be possible to create a decoupled version of civ V, but then the authentication requirement will not work, and in general there would be no benefit to Civ V to do so. It would involve writing new code for some menus handled by steam. It would attract the people who object to steam's TOS, but that's the only benefit.

Bold by me.

The authentication requirement does not require a constantly running DRM program. The Steam DRM could start when the game starts, do the authentication, and then shut down if the computer is offline and/or if the player requests it.

Yes, there may be a tiny bit of code needed in order to have Steam shut itself down. But in exchange for that extra shut-down code we could have our DRM restriction concerns completely removed. Bello would never have needed to ask his question and Greg wouldn't have needed to dodge it. There are people who have posted on this forum that they will not purchase this game because of Steam. If Steam could be shut off after the start sequence then some of those lost sales may be reclaimed.
 
Top Bottom