The single most critical Social Policy

chazzycat · Sep 24, 2012

piety doesn't close rationalism. if you complete the entire tree, then yeah, that's an investment that you're not going to just throw away. But if you just take the opener or opener + org. religion, then later in the game, those two bonuses will have already served their purpose. The opener is completely meaningless after those buildings are built, and losing a bit of faith per turn late isn't a big deal. It seems to me, that it makes pretty good sense to switch to rationalism later, and use all that extra faith to buy scientists. 1 turn of anarchy is not the end of the world.

of course this is only worth it if you get a really good religion out of it.

adsin15 · Sep 25, 2012

For my first policy (regardless of victory type) I often select just the Honor opener then move on to either tradition or liberty.

The + 33% damage to barbs and the + culture for killing barbs means you can camp 2 or 3 barb sites and gain massive amounts of culture quickly. It pays for itself after killing 3-4 barbs and plus you get to level up all your early warriors.

Syntax Error · Sep 26, 2012

Seabastian Civ said:
Let me ask a kind of open question: Let's say you've finished your first tree and rationalism isn't available yet... what do you do with it and why? For discussion's sake let's say both Patronage and Commerce are available.

I usually go Tradition --> Honor if I plan to warmonger or Tradition --> Patronage if I've got a healthy cash flow.

Are there any 1-2 Policy Tree combinations you think are particularly effective?

Depends on the VC. If I get a seventh policy before the Renaissance, I go for Patronage. CSes, particularly Maritimes and Culturals can help in any VC you might want to pursue. Plus, those four cities will grow very tall. So much so that four Markets would be enough to keep you afloat GPT-wise.

PibbZ · Sep 26, 2012

For me, It's usually Protectionism (+2 extra :c5happy:

pr luxury) that turns the tide. It usually arrives just in time when the happiness counter reaches uncomfortable levels :king:

But, it really depends on the game and situation you're in.

curwen · Sep 26, 2012

honor .... all policies are always good and useful up to finisher.... and you always have to go to war... but ok it is only important if you go wide by conquest... but that is something you need to do just to survive at deity (turtle is bad as yoyur neighbour will come back if you do not destroy them...)

Ok speaking of deity.

gozpel · Sep 26, 2012

When I play big empire, Order will kill everything, including unhappiness!

Seabastian Civ · Sep 26, 2012

PibbZ said:
For me, It's usually Protectionism (+2 extra pr luxury) that turns the tide. It usually arrives just in time when the happiness counter reaches uncomfortable levels

But, it really depends on the game and situation you're in.

Funny you should mention this, I am currently playing a random civ/shuffle MP game that gave us a very watery map. I went commerce as China just so I could play with the big boys (England, Ottomans, Dutch, Carthage). Man... Protectionism is HUGE!! My happy jumped like 20 points. The policy right before it, Mercantilism is also a fantastic policy, that -25% discount is massive, and add in science- BEAUTIFUL.

Commerce Tree is Legit.

Dogmouth · Sep 26, 2012

curwen said:
honor .... all policies are always good and useful up to finisher.... and you always have to go to war... but ok it is only important if you go wide by conquest... but that is something you need to do just to survive at deity (turtle is bad as yoyur neighbour will come back if you do not destroy them...)

Ok speaking of deity.

That's surprising. I find the honor finisher to be really lackluster. It's hard to squeeze more than a few gpt on average from the closer. Honor would be better if barbs scaled up more quickly.

OmniPotent42 · Sep 26, 2012

I would have to say that any policy that give you more than 10 happiness, whether it's Order opener or Protectionism, or Military Caste. Even +1 :c5happy:

from research buildings can be great in the late game.

kaspergm · Sep 26, 2012

Seabastian Civ said:
Funny you should mention this, I am currently playing a random civ/shuffle MP game that gave us a very watery map. I went commerce as China just so I could play with the big boys (England, Ottomans, Dutch, Carthage). Man... Protectionism is HUGE!! My happy jumped like 20 points. The policy right before it, Mercantilism is also a fantastic policy, that -25% discount is massive, and add in science- BEAUTIFUL.

Commerce Tree is Legit.

Commerce tree is much better than people generally give it credit for imo. - however, I do find that the one that gives discount on improvement costs is usually not worth it, and that usually makes me go into Order instead of finishing Commerce, as the happiness, gold and science output - not to mention production - from going the central line in Order will just outshine that of the right side of Commerce in almost all regards, not to mention the ability to perchase Great Engineers with faith is just too good to turn down.

Seabastian Civ · Sep 26, 2012

kaspergm said:
Commerce tree is much better than people generally give it credit for imo. - however, I do find that the one that gives discount on improvement costs is usually not worth it, and that usually makes me go into Order instead of finishing Commerce, as the happiness, gold and science output - not to mention production - from going the central line in Order will just outshine that of the right side of Commerce in almost all regards, not to mention the ability to perchase Great Engineers with faith is just too good to turn down.

Yes, the Central Order path is dope. I also typically open rationalism and order ASAP, no matter where I am in other trees. Both of those openers are so good and unlock such good policies that they're indispensible in most of my games (See OP). The game I mentioned regarding Commerce Tree earlier is one of the very few times I've managed to finish Commerce before reaching industrial.

Cromagnus · Sep 26, 2012

Dogmouth said:
That's surprising. I find the honor finisher to be really lackluster. It's hard to squeeze more than a few gpt on average from the closer. Honor would be better if barbs scaled up more quickly.

I must say I do like the honor finisher because of the timing that the gold rolls in. Yes, the gold per turn doesn't average out great, but when you're actually in a war, and you have a ton of units, it can compensate for having negative gold per turn, or if you aren't negative, you can usually buy a unit or two off the profits. And as the game progresses, the gold per kill increases. When it starts out sure it's only 10-20 gold per kill. But, later on, it's 50... Because it scales like that, it's pretty nice. Especially on top of the culture bonus. Especially on top of the faith bonus if you're the Celts. ;-)

Mesix · Sep 27, 2012

If you are a warmonger, the Honor finisher can easily finance unit upgrades as your technology progresses. It might not be the best finisher of in the game, but it serves its purpose well.

Gamewizard · Sep 27, 2012

adsin15 said:
For my first policy (regardless of victory type) I often select just the Honor opener then move on to either tradition or liberty.

The + 33% damage to barbs and the + culture for killing barbs means you can camp 2 or 3 barb sites and gain massive amounts of culture quickly. It pays for itself after killing 3-4 barbs and plus you get to level up all your early warriors.

Well the liberty or tradition openers will give you more culture in the long term, and moving from honor to another tree delays finishing one of the other trees. Turn on raging barbs and a low difficulty level (AI civs will kill less barbs on lower levels) and then you have a much better argument.

The single most critical Social Policy

chazzycat

Deity

adsin15

Warlord

Syntax Error

Prince

PibbZ

Paladin

curwen

Chieftain

gozpel

Couch-potato (fortified)

Seabastian Civ

King

Dogmouth

King

OmniPotent42

King

kaspergm

Deity

Seabastian Civ

King

Cromagnus

Deity

Mesix

The Allfather

Gamewizard

Emperor

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