A fun Deity map with a nice capitol. Peter/Pangaea/normal speed

To vote for you the AIs need +8 INCLUDING the hidden modifiers, so some vote for you at +6 others need +10 visable :)

The hidden modifier you're referring to is "a first impression is a lasting one"? I've seen screenshots where this shows up in some mods... I assumed it would in BUFFY but I have BUFFY installed and I've never noticed it.
 
The AI have default modifiers as part of their Leaderhead. Gandhi and Zara are the only ones with +2, the lower scoreboard I'm not 100% sure, i think its small nations work together bonus but can't remember if thats hidden or not.

I always wondered why Zara gets to pleased so quickly (once the "Years of peace have strengthened our relationship" +1 modifier kicks in, which takes a surprisingly short time). I'm guessing Mansa is +1 because it never takes him long to get to pleased.

EDIT: Sorry for the unneccessary multi-post :p
 
The hidden modifier you're referring to is "a first impression is a lasting one"? I've seen screenshots where this shows up in some mods... I assumed it would in BUFFY but I have BUFFY installed and I've never noticed it.

I believe it is an option you have to toggle in the MOD because having this knowledge is not unaltered gameplay.
 
@pixie

Shaka said it all. :) I had quite a lot of demands where the only negative diplo was with monty. Mostly stop trading and techs.
If I run vassalage/HR/Emancipation that would get me charly/cyrus/joao/Lincoln. So to win I needed WK (who requires caste)... but he asked me so many times to stop trading with monty and I did a phony war with him as well. So I was pretty confident all would vote for me.

I think on this map if you can reach cuirasiers at a reasonable time and take out Joao or Cyrus you should have enough land to win space or domination. If I would`ve played military my target would`ve been Joao (which is the most advanced) and then Cyrus. This would considerably slow down the global tech speed and I`d have Charles as a buffer.
Eventhough attacking backward and small empires seems most profitable, I think in general it makes sense to take out the most advanced if you can.


@Shaka

Seems you`ll have some catching up to do. :( But as you said, if you can get some trade missions and GA`s (did Cyrus build MoM?), it should be doable.
The early lib date is thanks to the marble/philo and the tech speed of my budhist block.
 
How is this altered gameplay?
... the player has the ability to gain this knowledge without the mod.

I dont think this is true. The only thing the player knows is that some ai at a certain threshold may be cautious and some pleased, but the actual negative modifier (-1, -2, 0, and whatever the other options are) is not known.
 
It is on the "glance" tab and in the LeaderHeadInfo xml ... both accessible to the player.

Found this about hidden modifiers:

DaveMcW said:
  • First Impression: A combination of iBaseAttitude, iBasePeaceWeight, iPeaceWeightRand, iWarmongerRespect, and iAttitudeChange.
  • Team Size: The AIs don't like permanent alliances or unbalanced teams. Unless they are on the best team!
  • High Score: Several AIs care about who has the better score.
  • Low Score: AIs are more willing to cooperate if you are both on the bottom half of the scoreboard.
  • Losing War: Losing a war makes AIs mad.

First Impression: For AI to AI relations, this number may be off by 1 (44% chance) or 2 (22% chance).
High/Low Score: Hidden until you have most or all contacts.
Losing War: Hidden for wars you are not involved in.

You can always see the full list of modifiers in debug mode.
 
Good stuff so far guys:goodjob:. I finally got a chance to play this through the other night. Normally I stop around 1 ad to post progress but I played this one all the way through to 1000ad.

Spoiler :

To start off I decided to settle the marble. I tech path was ag>BW>wheel>pottery>writing then I went up the music line grabbing the great library and national epic on the way plus a whole lot of fail gold. I farmed up a bunch of great scientists and bulbed philo, paper, and education(2x). I had another scientist who was supposed to bulb lib but I foolishly trade for machinery and screwed that whole thing up. I won lib in 520ad and took MT for a standard cuir rush. I upgraded a whole bunch of knights once gunpowder was in and I declared on Joao in 840ad. So here I am at 1000ad with 2 of Joao's cities and my sights set on oporto.

Some screenshots:

My newly captured land
Spoiler :


My empire
Spoiler :

Spoiler :


Techs(And yeah I'm aware I have trades to make this turn)
Spoiler :

25 bc save also attached if anyone is interested.
 

Attachments

  • Deity Peter BC-0025.CivBeyondSwordSave
    199.3 KB · Views: 22
  • Deity Peter AD-1000.CivBeyondSwordSave
    259.9 KB · Views: 20
I believe it is an option you have to toggle in the MOD because having this knowledge is not unaltered gameplay.

BUFFY doesn't have such info because normally there is no way to get info on hidden modifiers as some are different from one game to another one.

For instance,
First Impression: For AI to AI relations, this number may be off by 1 (44% chance) or 2 (22% chance).
.

I think the mod with the mantis head (actually forgot the name) has those modifiers presented, because they suck for some people.
 
Looks good Pete. :goodjob: Too bad Joao managed to get grens. What`s your plan? Just keep on bashing Joao or would it make sense to take out Cyrus first and come back to Joao with Cavs? I would`ve tried to get a GM instead of scientists for upgrading though. Is there any particular reason why you would prefer to bulb chemistry over a GM or two?
 
Played this one a bit. Even though the land is crap, it's looking good so far. Managed to grab Lib around 400AD, started my Cuir-Attack at approximately 800AD. Vasalled Persia within 5-6 turns, now I'm kicking Jaos ass. Charlie will be next, he doesnt have Grens yet but I just researched Rifling (1100AD). :king: It helps alot that I conquered the Apo-palace from Persia and managed to pass the resolution "all declare war on Montezuma". :)

Might finish it tonight and upload pictures.
 
Looks good Pete. :goodjob: Too bad Joao managed to get grens. What`s your plan? Just keep on bashing Joao or would it make sense to take out Cyrus first and come back to Joao with Cavs? I would`ve tried to get a GM instead of scientists for upgrading though. Is there any particular reason why you would prefer to bulb chemistry over a GM or two?

Nope no good reason for it, I just forgot to switch over my GPPs to something else. I think it was around 430am at this point in the game :p. I still have a 40 % chance of getting something besides a scientist in a couple turns which would let me pop a GA(I have an extra scientist on reserve).

As far as the plan, I would really like to at least take oporto since it has some goodies in it. I should be able to take it quickly before he has a chance to stack grenadiers in there. After that then switching over to Cyrus might be a good plan.
 
So I continued playing...

Spoiler :


Unfortunately it took longer to vasall Joao than expected - he didnt capitulate, even though he only had two cities left and no army. He only capitulated when I made peace with Montezuma... (otherwise he would have peace-vasalled to Charlie the next turn - I reloaded when that happened...). Has anyone ever experienced something similar? However, these 7-8 turns on Joao led to Charlie having Riflemen. I decided to attack him immediately after Joao, but it was very very bloody. In the end I vasalled him after two cities, after losing about half of my beloved Cossacks. Now I'm too bored to play on, I hate Cav-wars when the other civs have Rifling; I would probably continue with Montezuma, he's the only one who doesnt have Rifling yet. I guess it is more or less won though... But domination would take a couple more hours.















 

Attachments

  • 1.JPG
    1.JPG
    288.6 KB · Views: 274
  • 2.JPG
    2.JPG
    316.7 KB · Views: 254
  • 3.JPG
    3.JPG
    237.4 KB · Views: 246
  • 5.JPG
    5.JPG
    366.6 KB · Views: 247
  • 4.JPG
    4.JPG
    244.8 KB · Views: 249
I said I'd give this marble start a try and I did. I started some days ago, already, while losing another game :lol:

To around 1 A.D. :

Spoiler :
I settled on the marble to get a better production, yet discarded an axerush firsthand, thinking about wonderhoggling, instead.
Techpath went :
Agri -> The Wheel -> Pottery (get better research first, there's loads to research before Alpha)
Myst -> Poly (started on ToA) -> Masonry (SH built iafal, shortly after) -> Priesthood (started on Oracle) -> Writing + Oracle on 1600 BC. Picked CoL and traded it for Alpha with Buddhist Charlie. Little did I know but Charlie would then beeline Civil Service and Macemen :goodjob:

I can't recall about the early builds. I guess a second worker was built at size 3-4 and then a settler at size 4.
I settled along our initial river, first, sharing the rice (high production, holy Confu city). The second settler went and grabbed the deer to the south west. Then I slowly got to 6 cities while getting surrounded by Persia and HRE.
I missed on the Iron that way but still plan to get the furs + copper at some point. Too bad about the iron since I could train Xbows otherwise.

I soon infected Joao with Confu, got the ToA and shrined Confucianism. Lincoln and Cyrus converted as well, while Hindu Monty and Buddhist Wang fight together. Meanwhile, Joao demanded that I switch to Confu as well, so I did.
After I got Alpha, the techpath went Aest -> Litt -> Music -> Drama. I invested a few turns to get Calendar and Currency.

Well, all of this led to this situation, 75 BC, I started a golden age with the Music Artist and started on researching Civil Service (vs Engineering vs Feudalism ; stopped to think about it). 6 cities settled, 3 good and 3 bad ones.
Joao has just founded Taoism, so I'll need some missionaries if I want to keep him in Confu.

Spoiler :






On the next session, Charlie DoWed on 50 BC :lol: He'd been plotting for some time and I didn't do anything to prevent it. I had 2 archers and some axes could be trained. I first made sure I'd lose a city and then reviewed my tactics, reloading from 75 BC.

Spoiler :


So I lost the city but spared myself some casualties and my 2 archers are in Novgorod :
Spoiler :

It ain't that bad (yet).
I like the culture pressure I can exert on the center of the map (Sistine incoming), can build some troops and am close to Macemen + Trebuchets. And I'm doing positive gold at 100% research so I can upgrade a little, afford a little maintenance, etc. Can't quit this so soon. At least it will be a fun war.


A few other screenies from 50 AD :
Spoiler :




 

Attachments

  • Deity Peter AD-0050.CivBeyondSwordSave
    200 KB · Views: 19
I have almost played this game to its end. But for now... to 1450 AD (a long shot) :

Spoiler :
I left up a few turns after Charlie DoWed on me. He hadn't moved his stack from Yaroslav and I could reach Civil Service to get maces. Iirc, I instantly traded for
So I could upgrade my axes and reach 6-10 maces, a couple longbows and some catapults. I just fought on my territory for some time but could clear each of Charlie's stacks.
Although he had X-bows and those made it very difficult to push through his forces. At some point, he'd also bring elephants along. So it was a very slow defensive war.

Here's a screeny from 200 AD with Novgorod's garrison highlighted and a sieging force. There are also a few random units south of St Perersburg (they'll stay fortified until I clear them with knights).

Spoiler :


You can notice the Sistine Chapel being completed in St Petersbourg (would later build the Heroic Epic).
That's one of the first times I build this wonder and it proved very nice. Both the culture bonus to specialists and to religious buildings was useful. I have already settled a city north of St Petersbourg and it will get its tiles, provided Confu buildings and a theater.
I wanted to pack the north with two more citie to be able to flip cities from Joao and Cyrus but I didn't do it (for a long time).

I didn't have access to iron but there were some sources close to my border so after Civil Service, I researched Guilds (for knights) and then Nationalism (for Taj).
Meanwhile, Joao was running away in techs, getting Lib at 540 AD, starting a GA 560 AD. He was closely followed by Cyrus and Washington (all 3 are Confu block), while Wang and Monty were still fighting together and lagging behind.
Then I went for Education.
At that point I was just starting flipping the odds with Charlie : I have kept on building up my cities and have two excellent ones. They will win the war :
Spoiler :



St Petersburg just contributed a great scientist of its own, while Moscow was on Taj duty. Was used on Education. However, I had trouble later on getting other GS as I spawned three more prophets (2 at low odds).
I would then research Gunpowder -> Chemistry (hoping to bulb... naive, needs PP and a GS, first).


At that point and since the end of my golden age, I'm in HR + Bureau + Slavery + Theocracy.
However, in the East...
Spoiler :


Charlie's border city has the Pyramids (and the Hanging Gardens) so I'll soon switch into Representation (remember all those specialists ?). It's a very good thing since I couldn't really increase my bpt in the last 500 years and have basically no cottage city.

Around that time, I flipped the city Darius had settled past my borders, to the South-east, and I soon got Iron.
Pushing slowly through Charlie, Aachen was captured on 1000 AD with a mixed force of Trebs, Maces and Knights :
Spoiler :

And then Augsburg, Prague and Ulm while researching Steel.
When Ulm was conquered I accepted Charlie's capitulation for Military Tradition (Cuirassiers) and the city of Nuremberg saving me a lot of time moving units around.
Nuremberg would be fully built, generate culture and farm a GM :

Spoiler :

Confu was spread all around, of course.


At that point, I was left in a comfortable situation :)goodjob:) even though lagging in techs compared to my Confu friends. At least, production would be fine, now. Charlie's cities are pretty good, actually.

Spoiler :



At that point, first thing was to switch into Rep + Bureau + Caste + Pac (+ Merc, I think).
You can see I have a spare GP in Moscow and I was aiming for a golden age (you can't see the 5 settled G. Prophets in St Petersbourg... missed my GA a couple times). It was a fine time since all of Charlie's cities would soon be out of anger and I could use added production.
I also have quite a lot of workshops. Actually, I'll spend a lot of time in Caste before going back to Slavery (I'll leave said GA in Caste). On the other hand, Pacifism is a civic I think I spent too much time in.

As you can see, after Steel it is Economics that is researched. I felt I got it too late, though. The commerce boost was significant. I haven't researched Constitution, mostly because I've gotten the Pyramids. However, I'd like to get Wall Street built in St Petersbourg. I'm somehow counting on a trade with Wang for that.
So instead of Economics -> Corps (very appealing), I went Economics -> Sci Meth -> Biology -> Communism.
(Charlie researching Rep Parts.)

In any case, then I had some breathing room to act on the game. Also I had an active stack and could build some cannons.
Joao and Cyrus have signed a defensive pact. They could have made for "easy" caps otherwise, being so close to my production cities and all.
So I just decided to increase the culture pressure on the east (settled 2 border cities and will soon build some spies to spread culture to one of Cyrus' cities) while sending my stacks to Wang (who had vassalized Monty ; better than the other way around). Despite his fine cities and light garrisons, I didn't consider much Washington since I didn't want too get too thin borders.

The war against Wang and Monty was declared on 1330 AD and it is now 1450 AD.
I could storm 3 of Wang's cities with Cuirassiers + Cannons and Macemen (vs Grenadiers) and then capture 2 more.
I lost a stack of 7-8 cannons + some fodder in the field, which delayed me a bit. I've just replenished my numbers, actually (12 cannons + 20 Cuirassiers and a little pike or mace here and there, nothing huge).
Wang also just reached Riffling but I doubt he has enough production anymore to wage a war. I just need my cannons to reach the frontlines.

Empire from East to West :
Spoiler :






Tech screen :
Spoiler :

Trades are off, yep.

Some unhappiness but nothing crippling.
I'm probably going for Constitution now, to enable the trade for Corporations.
Seoul and Nanpo are my next major targets. Wang also has a city in the south west but it isn't scouted. I'm not sure I want to go there because I wouldn't go with cannons (too far away).
Speaking of cannons, I have enough en route to the frontlines and I may change civics to State Property + OR now (2 turns anarchy).

So... some luck and some bad luck. I'm pretty sure I'll win this game now, though. So the next update won't be as thorough as this one. Lots of warring was fun and that 1 AD DoW didn't end as badly as I first feared. AIs don't blitzkrieg when they could... Gotta learn and keep a cool head, then.
I'll probably try to catch up in techs, next. Caping Wang and Monty then win via UN, maybe. Maybe invade Washington since his cultures threatens 2 or 3 cities..
Not sure how the situation will evolve between Joao, Cyrus, my culture and their defensive pact. I love those Pangaea culture fights with high production, central cities, although I definitely should have settled my cultural borders sooner. I'd have loved to flip Coimbra and Ectabana. Now if I flip Gordium it will be fine, already.
 

Attachments

  • Deity Peter AD-1450.CivBeyondSwordSave
    316.5 KB · Views: 18
So in the end, it was a 1802 AD Domination.

Spoiler :
I didn't scout properly Wang/Monty, so they could clear some of my stacks and the war lasted forever.
Wang actually capped to Monty when he was left with 1 city. Then, after I took peace with Monty, Wang peace-vassaled to Washington. After 10 turns, Monty could be killed easily and I came close to Domination, lacking less than 1% land. Too bad, because Washington had flipped 2 cities I captured from Wang.
So... Cyrus was invaded as 2 of his cities were on my borders, 1 being completely surrounded by Russian culture.
In the end, I never flipped another city, despite raising my culture above 60% in Coimbra and 70% in Gordium. I had frontline of confu academies to get there and a horde of spies. Of course, plenty were caught and when I built the UN in St Petersbourg... nobody would vote for me :lol: Actually, Joao was elected UN secretary.

Overall, an enjoyable map despite my blunders.
 
Thank you, Grashopa. It was an exciting game to play. Peter with Marble in BFC is yummy.

A couple minor things about my game :

Spoiler :
Last civic switch was around 1450 AD. I then ran a weird set of civics :
Representation : Fine for research, even though the happy boost is almost irrelevant to a 20+ cities Empire.
Free Speech : Used to be in Bureaucracy but the hammer bonus in Moscow wasn't needed anymore. The EP bonus + happy boost from Nationalism was attractive. In the end, +100% culture from Free Speech was my choice. The +2 commerce to towns was only a marginal bonus to my Empire (had less than 20 towns at that time).
Being a no (or is it low ?) cost civic was enough for Free Speech to ensure a commerce boost compared to high cost Bureaucracy. Not a thing I'm used to check.
Caste : goes nicely along with Representation and workshops.
State Property : workshops, maintenance reduction, no (or is it low ?) cost civic.
Org Religion : boost to buildings = commerce boost. I didn't actually catch up in techs with Joao in this game but, OR put me in a position where I could multiply my EP production tremendously. Late game espionage could have done it.


Then Biology :
It's happenned to me to disregard the benefits from Biology in food rich / cottage heavy Empires. The reason would be : no use in 4F grassland farms if your cities are already at their caps (health & happy).
Now on this map there were many food poor cities so the benefits from Biology was more apparent.
What I partly realized was that Biology farms could not only be used to grow cities to their cap, but also to increase the average yield of the tiles we're working. Seems obvious, right ? In practice, Biology can transform a size 10-12 city into a production powerhouse. Building workshops over bio farms felt really strong wherever a city was out of tiles to work.
The relation to commerce seems to be a little different since you either need to grow and then hire specialists, or you need to grow and then cottage the land.

And now a little extra with the 3 high culture cities that kept my borders in check with Cyrus/Joao. Also Moscow helped a lot fighting Charlie (the city he captured in the beginning would be surrounded with Russian culture, effectively trapping his units inside). At the end of the game, they were ranked respectively number 1, 2 and 5 in the world's top cities :
Spoiler :




 
I finally played on this weekend to 1370ad:
Spoiler :

Continuing where I left off, I decided to take burn's advice and made peace with Joao. Oporto was defended a little too well and Cyrus was an easy target for my cuirs. I lost a city in the west to Cyrus's stack but took 6 of his cities in the east. By that time rifling was in so I upgraded my entire stack, did a cease fire with Cyrus, and redeclared on Joao. The next turn Oporto was mine and Joao capitulated. I then redeclared and capped both Cyrus and Lincoln. I'm now in the middle of my war vs. charlie and it is going quite well. Fortunately Charlie hasn't gone for rifling yet (he just researched military science :lol:) but I do expect him to get it soon. Either way the rest of the game should be cake.

Spoiler :

 

Attachments

  • Deity Peter AD-1370.CivBeyondSwordSave
    337.6 KB · Views: 20
Top Bottom