Divine Demons and Fallen Angels: Basium and Hyborem Team Up!

Alright, well I have devised a new strategy. It involves rushing both Hyborem and Basium before any other players summon them, letting you have Hyborem and Basium on the same team. Note that this is only really useful if you have two humans playing both civilizations; the AI is far too stupid to be beneficial to you if you let them control either Basium or Hyborem, and the switch to Hyborem will send your GDP down the drain.

The best civilization for this is the Kuriotates. The advantages of this is that they can easilly get a couple of powerhouse cities up and running early in the game, and that Cardith Lorda is Philosophical, which is needed for the Hyborem part of the rush. First, you want to found two or three cities; the exact amount varies depending on the map, and how many resources are nearby. I trust this part is simple enough. Secondly, you need to get Hyborem as soon as possible, without completely ruining your former civilization. The tech order should be:

Ancient Chants -> Education(Cottage Everything) -> Mysticism(Get a Priest ASAP) -> Philosophy -> Way of the Wicked -> Knowledge of the Ether. You should have a Great Prophet at this point. Lightbulb Corruption of Spirit. Do not research Infernal Pact yet! Instead, deviate to Crafting -> Mining, then grab Priesthood. After this you should have another Great Prophet. Research Infernal Pact using your second Great Prophet.

Once you take over Hyborem, remove all specialists from your cities except the engineer. Found your second city in a location with good production and decent food. Start building the Infernal Grimiore in this second city. Dump most of your manes into this city, and get as much production as possible. Research Code of Laws. You should finish Code of Laws around the same time as you finish the Infernal Grimiore. Use it to grab Fanaticism, then build the Mercruian Gate with your Great Engineer. Switch to Basium(Or remain as Hyborem), and let your partner take control of the other. You now have two super-powerful heros running around rather early in the game; I completed the Gate around turn 120 on Quick, if I remmeber correctly.

Haha, this is mind-boggling

You know, it would be nice if in MP people could summon Multiple Basiums or Hyborems and multiple Grimoires. That way we could test whether Malevolent Designs Rush or Hyborem/Basium rush was superior.

Glad I ditched that game early.

Bill Bisco said:

You know, it would be nice if in MP people could summon Multiple Basiums or Hyborems and multiple Grimoires. That way we could test whether Malevolent Designs Rush or Hyborem/Basium rush was superior.

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It depends on how they are used. The Hyborem/Basium rush grants a huge bonus in military power, capable of destroying almost anything at that point in the game. However, it will send your economy into the crapper, and despite being in an alliance your tech rate will be significantly less than any other player's, meaning if they can hold you off(the Elohim could be a huge problem for you here) they will easily pass you in technology, and eventually, power.

Malevolent Designs, in comparison, is a late-game strategy - not really a rush. When going for Malevolent Designs, you will be significantly weaker in the early game, where the Basium/Hyborem rush easilly outpaces the Malevolent Design beeline. However, once you get Malevolent Designs, I feel that one is superior(mainly due to conflicting interests; Basium's strongest units are up the Mithril line, while Hyborem's are up the religious one)

Onionsoilder said:

It depends on how they are used. The Hyborem/Basium rush grants a huge bonus in military power, capable of destroying almost anything at that point in the game. However, it will send your economy into the crapper, and despite being in an alliance your tech rate will be significantly less than any other player's, meaning if they can hold you off(the Elohim could be a huge problem for you here) they will easily pass you in technology, and eventually, power.

Malevolent Designs, in comparison, is a late-game strategy - not really a rush. When going for Malevolent Designs, you will be significantly weaker in the early game, where the Basium/Hyborem rush easilly outpaces the Malevolent Design beeline. However, once you get Malevolent Designs, I feel that one is superior(mainly due to conflicting interests; Basium's strongest units are up the Mithril line, while Hyborem's are up the religious one)

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According to Arkhan, Malevolent Designs Rush is possible to complete at turn 120

Bill Bisco said:

According to Arkhan, Malevolent Designs Rush is possible to complete at turn 120

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Hmm... Well, I don't remember exactly when I summoned Basium. All I know is I summoned Hyborem on turn 80, then it was around 33 turns to build Grimiore(That was before I mined everything, so it probably went down to 20ish total) I built the gate right after that. So it was probably closer to 100-105, but like I said, I don't rememeber.

Onionsoilder said:

However, once you get Malevolent Designs, I feel that one is superior(mainly due to conflicting interests; Basium's strongest units are up the Mithril line, while Hyborem's are up the religious one)

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Have we established that rushing for Malevolent Designs is even a good idea? Has anyone actually tried this, either on a high difficulty setting or in MP? If the Radiant Guard scenario taught me anything, it's that Beast of Agares can be squished with rather weak units. If I recall the design for rushing Malevolent Designs, it leaves you with a rather small empire (3 cities?) by the time you've rushed. Seems like a normal melee-mongering empire would be able to take you out, even if they waited 120 turns before attacking you.

Corwyn said:

Have we established that rushing for Malevolent Designs is even a good idea? Has anyone actually tried this, either on a high difficulty setting or in MP? If the Radiant Guard scenario taught me anything, it's that Beast of Agares can be squished with rather weak units. If I recall the design for rushing Malevolent Designs, it leaves you with a rather small empire (3 cities?) by the time you've rushed. Seems like a normal melee-mongering empire would be able to take you out, even if they waited 120 turns before attacking you.

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It certainly needs to be tested some more. Care to test