SGOTM 12 - One Short Straw

Also, what do we want to do about all the canals? I'm tempted to build workshops over them but I'd like some thoughts on them.

I was going to comment on this but noticed that there are no workers in the area so decided not to do so. I agree that many of those forts around Paris, Orleans and Steam can be converted to workshops if/when workers become available.

Radio in 3 turns sounds fine to me as well.
 
Both London and Bahamas are maxed out on prophets. I can shrink the GE pool for London as it's not on a tight schedule but Bahamas can't be shrunk since it has to pop a GP before GP farm catches up.
 
I think I suggested that we build a worker in Steam right now for converting those two forts. We'll need workers in GP Farm asap, so Steam could even build some more after production multipliers (not looking at the save right now, so no idea where that city is in its current build).

We probably do need a N-S shipping connection through Old China. It could really help with logistics later.
 
I'm away from the game right now, but I recall seeing a mainland city starting a three-turn forge build. It probably makes more sense to skip the forge and just build a factory, which will be powered by the 3GD giving 75% bonus instead of 25% from the forge.
 
Revised PPPMoscow:
Build wealth.

Fish:
Build wealth, Hire 16 merchants (162 GPP/turn) to pop GM on T+8 @ 2800.

Siberia:
Build dam. Complete on T+5. Set build to R&R, complete on T+8.

Pigs:
Build factory (5, borrowing ivory and workshop from neighbors).

GP Farm:
Build wealth. GPP plan is 213 for two turns, then 267 until T+10 (it’ll hit 2972 allowing Bahamas to beat it for the 3000 GP), then crank enough to pop the 3300 GPP on T+11.

Cuba:
Build wealth (factory doesn’t break even here).

Bahamas:
Build wealth. Will pop GSpy/GE/GP on T+10 for 3000 GP

Bermuda:
University (1, breaks even in 8 turns). T+1, build barracks (1). T+2, build marines for Stalin – Roosevelt campaigns. Fire spies for merchants.

Rheims:
Build barracks(1). Then build wealth. The barracks will break even in about 10 turns.

Bananas (will later build a casing or thruster):
Build wealth.

Paris:
Build wealth.

Kamchatka
Factory(1). University(3). Then build two workers(1 each). T+6, build wealth.

Orleans
Barracks(1). University (2). T+3, wealth.

Chengdu
Revolt (1); factory(?); barracks(?); marines

Bcool island
Barracks(1). T+1 wealth.

Shanghai
Barracks(1). T+1, wealth.

Crabbes
Barracks(1) + growth. T+1, wealth.

Beijing
Barracks(1). T+1, wealth.

Guangzhou
Barracks(1). T+1, wealth.

Nanjing
Observatory(3). T+3, wealth.

Hammer City
Observatory(1) for SS parts. T+1, wealth.

Tours
Factory (1). Barracks(1). T+2, wealth

Haiti
Observatory(1). University(2). T+3, wealth.

Hastings
Factory(3). T+3, wealth.

Nottingham
Forge (1). Mining exec (3). Then build workers.

York
Factory(5). T+5, wealth.

Oxford
Factory(5). T+5, wealth

Newcastle
Forge(2). Mining exec (3). T+5, wealth.

Iron Spice
Observatory(3). T+3, wealth.

Mitchum’s Oasis
Forge(3). Mining exec (3). T+6, wealth.

London
Observatory(1). Barracks(1). University(2). T+4, wealth.

Canterbury
Factory(3). Library(1). Observatory(2). T+7, wealth.

Warwick
Build workers until mining in, then swap to executives (kind of still useless city).

Steam
Worker(x3), then factory(4).

Rostov
Granary (1). Forge(2). T+3, wealth.

Yaroslav
Build wealth. Forge doesn’t pay off  Eventually swap to either boats or workers…

Yekaterinburg
Granary(2). Same here – forge doesn’t pay off in time. Eventually swap to boats or workers.

Jamaica
Forge(3). Drydock(3). T+8, wealth until transports available.

Vijay
Mining exec(2); forge(4); mining exec (3)

Agra
Courthouse(4); workers

Delhi
Courthouse(17); workers

Patali
Workers

Bombay
Workers

Calcutta
Workers

This puts our bpt at 3400 beakers with +80 gold (no culture slider). Is it better to just drop our slider to 0% since we're building some research buildings? We'll be able to push 100% for a few turns if we do this but I'm not sure if it'll speed up our overall research rate.
 
Why do we need a Factory in Pigs? Just run specialists.

Bermuda: we giving up on spy/priest backup? Personally, I'm cool with that. I don't even think we'll have time for these secondary ones to pop.

Chengdu: finish Factory, then wealth or I guess units if we need them

Do all the universities pay off for sure?

Nottingham: why Mining Exec? Where is it going? Better to build closer to target. I prefer building them in a place like Canterbury, where it's a 1t build, and galley chaining them to India. I know it needs Lib-Obs pretty desperately. Maybe spread to Oxford this turn and then build there. Sushi execs?

Slider: really don't know. I think Superconductors is the next big one. Turns to Radio and Computers are not super relevant, so you may be right about 0% now. It's just that I wouldn't know where to begin pre-calculating the cash saving and later slider upping. 10% culture already looks about break-even with -10% research to me, but we could hold off a bit with all the barracks coming up.
Edit: actually, scratch what I just said. In 5t we'll have a huge wealth boost from all the factories coming up + dam. I think we must be better off running whatever commerce we can through beaker multipliers (we have way more of them than wealth multipliers anyway). Just make sure you have enough cash for whatever corp spread you intend for next turn, otherwise let's max out science.
 
I don't think we need a factory in pigs either. As it is it will take 32 turns to break even. I think we should stop working hammer tiles and run 100% scientists there when doing so won't interfere with our GP plans.

A barracks in Rheims/Tours isn't necessary either as R&R and Eiffel tower will take care of any happiness issues here in under 10 turns.

I'm not sure we will need the extra workers in Kamchatka either. It looks like our existing workers will be enough to clear all the fallout up there. The same applies in the South, so I don't think we need to build workers in Nottingham/Steam/Indian cities, especially as we will be getting a couple more from Warick, and 2 more from India. We could build executives for the England cities there instead. Canterbury could build extra executives for this area as well.


Chegdu: Do we need more marines here. Bahamas can build all the marines for the Stalin campaign and we shouldn't need to start to build any units for the Rooservelt campaign yet. Is there any reason we aren't working the gold mine here?

A library would probably be beneficial in Hammer city/Nottingham.

A theatre for happiness would probably make sense in Hastings.


Given the relatively low production in Jamiaca I can't see a drydock paying off. We could build the drydock in Bermuda instead. If we need any extra marines they could come from Bahamas.

With all these barracks builds and upcoming wonders I don't think running the culture slider makes sense for now. Running at the slider at the highest level where we still turn a profit to allow some cash for corporation spread should do for now.

University (1, breaks even in 8 turns). T+1, build barracks (1). T+2, build marines for Stalin – Roosevelt campaigns. Fire spies for merchants.

We aren't running any spies here. Do you mean Bahamas? I would still be inclined to keep this backup for now just in case we need one.

Are we planning on building the Eiffel Tower anywhere? It will be worth +2 happy even when we aren't running the culture slider.
 
I'm getting a bit nervous about finishing. I think we need to pick up the pace somehow. One week to go. We have to average about four turns a day.

@shyuhe Do you plan to play today? How many turns?
 
If I didn't comment, I agree or don't have an opinion on the builds.

But please consider these suggestions

Pigs Factory pays off in 10 turns (less if it keeps the ivory and workshop from steam) Since it will be getting power from 3 gorges damn. Pigs could easily produce a SS part if we converted its farms to workshops (probably won't have workers to spare though)

Bahamas can speed up its great person by building an industrial park (but would increase odds of GE which I guess we now expect to get from Fusion) Might as well fire the engineers and hire a more useful specialist if that is the case.

Rheims doesn't need a barracks (only 1 unhappy and we will be getting R&R and eiffel tower) Eiffel Tower could be coming in ~8 turns with a build in Hammer city

Grow Paris (if we expect happiness from eiffel tower and R&R) needs railroads if we have spare workers

Orleans only needs a barracks if you plan to grow the city

BCool Island (Coal Plant, please? it pays off very fast) then barracks

Shanghai should give up its dye and plains farm to hammer city

Crabbes (Coal Plant, please) barracks

Beijing should grow if it builds a barracks

Nanjing can draft for a net positive happiness (or send a musket back from Gandhi's lands)
And grow the city

Hammer city Eiffel Tower when possible

Tours should plan to grow into happiness from eiffel tower and R&R

Hastings Factory yes, Observatory (it is a high production city and chould build an SS part), also theater (those riverside tiles are so nice!)

York could use a barracks too after Factory

Oxford desperately needs mining corp

Newcastle could benefit from theater and should time growth with forge build

Iron Spice (should draft now to avoid unhappiness later) Could build boats

Mitchum's Oasis, skip the forge build mining executive first
rational for skipping forge and factory (forge pays off 17 turns from now if you ignore the happiness which probably won't be a factor unless we put sushi here) Factory pays off in 16 turns

London can run 1 more priest than it currently is in save (-1 engineer I guess)

Canterbury I would build a library, mining executive, then factory (timing it to finish at the same time as the 3 gorges dam)

Warwick I would skip building executives here after worker (mining executives pay off in ~9 turns and this city wouldn't build them fast enough)

Rostov could draft to prevent happiness issues (or again send a musket back)

Yaroslav (no forge, just wealth I think)

Yekaterinburg can draft eventually for some "free" happiness

Jamaica I would skip the drydock as well (just build a few boats elsewhere) and can also eventually draft for some "free" happiness

Delhi (specialists to prevent growth?) and desparately needs mining inc

Bombay could work grass hill city rather than grassland city for +1 worker production

Calcutta (prevent starvation by working fish and unimproved deer

Yakursk (coal island city) should build courthouse instead of granary.

And it would be nice to know what the plan for stalin is exactly (when are we planning to attack) with what from where.
 
Eiffel tower and R&R builds

R&R costs 800 hammers

Eiffel tower costs 1250 (but gets 100% access to iron)

Now if we are going to benefit from these wonders we need to grow into the happiness we expect from them.

Right now we have 29 unhappy citizens in 14 cities. So if we got R&R that would give us 14 happy citizens. Eiffel tower right now in addition to R&R would give us 14 happy citizens.

If we converted all the unhappy citizens into scientists.
14 citizens as scientists would give 6*1.5 (guess at science multiplier probably higher in most of the cities) = 126 science per turn.

So R&R pays off in ~7 turns and Eiffel tower (with R&R) pays off in ~6 turns (with discount)

These pay off are significantly better if we grow into the expected happiness.

We want to have 2 or 3 unhappiness in our cities right before we build these wonders.
Better would be to have 2 or 3 unhappy citizens in each city (made happy by cultural slider that would then back off when the wonders are built)

So basically I'm saying we should plan for a city to grow into more than 2 or 3 unhappiness by the time we expect these wonders to be built or shortly after. So we should plan barracks/theater builds accordingly.
 
I agee with pretty much everything bcool said, except maybe factory in Pigs (we won't have worker turns for conversion and we can just run more specs, I think).

Also a bit worried about finishing the game now. I think that all the comments above set us up to play through 5-6t well. We should really do that today, if possible.
 
I also think we need to get a move on with this game.

Should we consider dispanding some of our India stack if we are not going to resume the war anytime soon?
 
I agree with incorporating the comments above and playing today. Also, whoever is up must be able to devote enough time to write a PPP, incorporate comments and play several turns fairly quickly. The best option is to have shyuhe continue to play the next 10 to 15 turns (if he has the time) since he is in game mode and very familiar with what's happening right now. It would be great to be through the next 10 to 15 turns by Monday.

So the next person can start getting ready, who's after shyuhe? My schedule allows me to comment, but I can't commit to playing turns in a timely manner unless no one else has the time.
 
I will play another 5 turns shortly, until the completion of the dam. I will re-do the math for some of the barracks builds based on city growth. One quick question - I totally forgot to slot in the tower and R&R but what cities should build them? The fastest possible two? I think that's Moscow + Hammer City.
 
Should we consider dispanding some of our India stack if we are not going to resume the war anytime soon?

I wouldn't. We'll need them to protect our workers and/or capture cities when we finally do attack Gandhi and Roosevelt in the next 15 to 20 turns.
 
Don't forget to sell Steel to To Roosevelt on T0. Also, once we have city visibility for all of Stalin's cities, start directing epp toward Roosevelt.
 
I will play another 5 turns shortly, until the completion of the dam. I will re-do the math for some of the barracks builds based on city growth. One quick question - I totally forgot to slot in the tower and R&R but what cities should build them? The fastest possible two? I think that's Moscow + Hammer City.

I'm not sure Moscow should build R&R, Siberia could probably do it with only 1 turn delay compared to Moscow (even though it is finishing the 3 gorges dam) and that would allow moscow to continue to run as many scientists as makes sense there.

Hammer city should build the Eiffel Tower or R&R which ever is faster I suspect and let Siberia build the other.

It would be nice if you could acknowledge some of my suggestions other than reconsidering barrack builds in this post: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10095172&postcount=4049

If only to say why you decided not to do them.

theaters are actually a cheaper way with a creative leader to get +1 :) or a temporary +2 :) with a 10% cultural slider than barracks. And I suspect if we grow a number of cities that a 10% cultural slider makes sense before Eiffel tower and/or R&R is built. Sometimes a theater is enough.
 
Might as well pick up music with steel trade to Roosy.

And might as well pick up 30 or so gold from Stalin by trading him non-military techs.
 
Sorry bcool, here's my attempted explanation. For cities with only one unhappy citizen, a barracks costs one turn of production vs. one scientist/merchant. Assuming 75% research multipliers, a scientist is worth 10.5 bpt. If the city produces a base of 50 hammers, then the barracks takes roughly 10 turns to break even. Now if the city has fewer research multipliers, obviously it takes far longer to break even. I was doing the math and I calculated 15 turns or so for the barracks that I didn't slot. I'll make sure I re-do the math on each city when I play just to make sure I did the math right. For most of the cities, it is not the pure hammer cost that's prohibiting barracks - it's the lost turn of wealth builds that's discouraging it. So there isn't much of a difference in theater vs. barracks. I'll look at the less productive cities though to see if they can build a theater faster than a barracks (where appropriate of course).
 
@ shyuhe I think what bcool meant (in addition to barracks) is that he made several suggestions in post 4049 (e.g. coal plants, executives, growing, etc.). Are you planning to incorporate all of his suggestions?
 
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