Just few things from my last games

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vesp3r1987

Warlord
Joined
Jun 2, 2015
Messages
139
Location
Bulgaria
Hi guys, its been a while since i posted...
So i made a game enabling all vic conditions as i was suggested here. Went for cultural vic with Spain (got lucky enough to settle my 1st 3 cities next to natural wonders) It went kinda good untill i started to doubt few things.

1. Should i keep my borders opened so that i get more influential or it doesnt matter
2. Whats the better use of great musicians - create great work or make concert at other civ`s empires?

It also felt like the entire game was just waiting till i can build hotels and airports. Is that the only important thing to focus on while doing cultural victory?
 
1. I generally never open my borders to anyone. CV works by having them open their borders to you. A bit counter intuitive...

2. Concert tours all the way. Unless you're doing a Futurism win and it's much much early in the game.

Many players ignore Airports entirely and just beeline straight to Internet, so it's Hotels, Aesthetics finisher, National Visitors Center and then Internet
 
"Unless you're doing a Futurism win and it's much much early in the game"
Im still new to other victory types other than domination so i got no idea what you meant there :D
I asked about musician cause i watched some old video guide on winning with Brasil and the guy never sent any of them to the AIs, while in my game whenever i opened my borders i was almost overwhelmed by other musician trying to win by that.

On other hand i forgot to mention that on my other play i was really surprised by Bluetooth AI...
I always though of him as militaristic leader. instead whenever i declared war on him he only sent sh*tload of missionaries to convert my cities o@ Is that because he lost his capitol early in the game and could not proceed in winning through domination?
 
I will always use musicians for concerts but I will also use them to fill up Broadway Wonder or any other Wonder that uses great works of music (then use Aesthetics to boost the theming bonus). Voting in the congresss motion for more great artists (can't remember the exact name), helps with this along with National Epic and some other factors. Opening borders will boost your tourism output to other civs but also means they can boost their output towards you so it's a double edged sword.
 
Never open your borders, just pay 2g (or more if neccessary) to get others to open their borders to you.

Unlike most other great people, the influence of musicians is fixed at the time they are created. If you build your Music guild late game when tourism is powerful (say after winning International Games) you will have several higly influencial musicains born quickly you can send on concert tours.

I used to be tempted to go for airports first before going for hotels/Nat Tousrist Centre/ Internet but the extra turns needed to go for Radar first just slowed me down.
 
Concert tours have a strength of 10x your tourism when they're born. So you might use a musician or two to make great works, which will help you future ones be stronger.

vesp3r1987 said:
"Unless you're doing a Futurism win and it's much much early in the game"
Im still new to other victory types other than domination so i got no idea what you meant there :D
Click to expand...

I highly recommend for you my Wonderless Cultural Victory video. I think you'd get the most out of the producer's cut (long version). In it, I use Futurism, I use musicians for both works and a tour, and I played such a tight game that I won before I had the chance to build Airports. Link: http://redd.it/3gt3rl
 
vesp3r1987 said:
"Unless you're doing a Futurism win and it's much much early in the game"
Im still new to other victory types other than domination so i got no idea what you meant there :D
I asked about musician cause i watched some old video guide on winning with Brasil and the guy never sent any of them to the AIs, while in my game whenever i opened my borders i was almost overwhelmed by other musician trying to win by that.

On other hand i forgot to mention that on my other play i was really surprised by Bluetooth AI...
I always though of him as militaristic leader. instead whenever i declared war on him he only sent sh*tload of missionaries to convert my cities o@ Is that because he lost his capitol early in the game and could not proceed in winning through domination?
Click to expand...

One of the ways to get a Culture win is to go Autocracy and pick Futurism which gets you an instant 250 tourism to all known civs whenever a GWAM is born. This works better if you somehow get a crazy good start (Spain next to a couple natural wonders) since at that point of the game, AI culture won't be that large and 250 tourism is A LOT

I've only did that once though so I can't really be a good example. My culture wins involve teching until Internet AND THEN spawning Musicians which are good for ~5000-6000 tourism a piece, and I don't create a single great work of music
 
stormtrooper412 said:
One of the ways to get a Culture win is to go Autocracy and pick Futurism which gets you an instant 250 tourism to all known civs whenever a GWAM is born. This works better if you somehow get a crazy good start (Spain next to a couple natural wonders) since at that point of the game, AI culture won't be that large and 250 tourism is A LOT

I've only did that once though so I can't really be a good example. My culture wins involve teching until Internet AND THEN spawning Musicians which are good for ~5000-6000 tourism a piece, and I don't create a single great work of music
Click to expand...

So for futurism you would get all the great people increasers in the gw city such as gardens and national epic wonder first and then build the great works buildings after futurism is researched so that more great workers would be born during futurism then, i would imagine.
 
If I get a great musician early, I use him for a great work, because a concert tour before you have much tourism going is fairly worthless. This is why it may not be a bad idea to wait to build your musician guild until much later in the game.

If I complete aesthetics, I save my favor to buy great musicians when I have either just completed the international games or one of big techs (refrigeration, radar, internet), and those music tours will finish the game.
 
reddishrecue said:
So for futurism you would get all the great people increasers in the gw city such as gardens and national epic wonder first and then build the great works buildings after futurism is researched so that more great workers would be born during futurism then, i would imagine.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. In my Wonderless Cultural Victory vid, I started working the Writer's Guild right away. The culture per turn boost for doing so was so significant that it was worth "wasting" a couple GWs before Futurism was in play. They were making 2 tourism per turn earlier, so it all evens out.
 
vesp3r1987 said:
Hi guys, its been a while since i posted...
So i made a game enabling all vic conditions as i was suggested here. Went for cultural vic with Spain (got lucky enough to settle my 1st 3 cities next to natural wonders) It went kinda good untill i started to doubt few things.

1. Should i keep my borders opened so that i get more influential or it doesnt matter
2. Whats the better use of great musicians - create great work or make concert at other civ`s empires?

It also felt like the entire game was just waiting till i can build hotels and airports. Is that the only important thing to focus on while doing cultural victory?
Click to expand...

25% of 0 is 0 so no point early on or even mid game.
Now after you have a Hotel in the capital, I'd consider it, but before blindly opening them up for all, check the screen to determine who the projected last two civs you'll overcome is. If the civ in question isn't one of those, there is no real point in opening the borders to them.

Great Musician's strength doesn't increase in time but is instead locked to 10X what your tourism was at birth. So asking yourself that question after one has already been born is rather late.
It's quite easy if you built the Great Musician guild too early to be at a state where the best current thing you can do now that the Great Musician has been born with only 100 strength is place it in an Opera House.

Increasing the priority of Science is the main thing that speeds up a standard Cultural victory.
 
Dushku said:
Not necessarily. In my Wonderless Cultural Victory vid, I started working the Writer's Guild right away. The culture per turn boost for doing so was so significant that it was worth "wasting" a couple GWs before Futurism was in play. They were making 2 tourism per turn earlier, so it all evens out.
Click to expand...

So yes then, that is saved until futurism still since 2 great workers are nothing compared to all the other great workers that could be made way before futurism. You can for sure make more than 2 great workers before futurism.
 
Futurism grants 250 tourism to all known civs when they're born. Saving them for after Futurism doesn't accomplish anything. I thought your original question was referencing not bearing great work-ers until after Futurism. To which I pointed out that creating a few before Futurism was worth it because the culture per turn is worth it. And since the great works get made so early, they rack up the +2 tourism per turn every turn before Futurism, somewhat offsetting the 250 they lost by not being born after Futurism.
 
Dushku said:
Concert tours have a strength of 10x your tourism when they're born. So you might use a musician or two to make great works, which will help you future ones be stronger.



I highly recommend for you my Wonderless Cultural Victory video. I think you'd get the most out of the producer's cut (long version). In it, I use Futurism, I use musicians for both works and a tour, and I played such a tight game that I won before I had the chance to build Airports. Link: http://redd.it/3gt3rl
Click to expand...
Ok thanks for clarifying that one for me. I usually go for Order ideology so i can choose the 2 boosts of tourism (towards other civs and toward civs with less happiness than me)
Ill check that video when i get home and will check how my new game goes. This time i went random civ and got to play with Brasil... gotta be fun

I finish aesthetics fairly fast as i invest few times in liberty to gain fast extra settler and worker, then i go straight to aesthetics... unless i get too much barb attacks.
 
In my limited experience, I think Order is simultaneously the worst/potentially the best ideology in the context of a cultural victory. They have 2, this is true, but both are situational and honestly outside of your control.

As jon pointed out, the root of a cultural victory is science. As such, I'd recommend Tradition over Liberty. Though if you find that you're in a game with a bunch of cultural civs and think you might need to take some cities to curb their culture accumulation, then I suppose Liberty could offer some benefits.

I hope you enjoy that video. I think you'll be surprised to hear I only touched Aesthetics for the opener and still managed my fastest CV yet :)
 
Dushku said:
In my limited experience, I think Order is simultaneously the worst/potentially the best ideology in the context of a cultural victory. They have 2, this is true, but both are situational and honestly outside of your control.

As jon pointed out, the root of a cultural victory is science. As such, I'd recommend Tradition over Liberty. Though if you find that you're in a game with a bunch of cultural civs and think you might need to take some cities to curb their culture accumulation, then I suppose Liberty could offer some benefits.

I hope you enjoy that video. I think you'll be surprised to hear I only touched Aesthetics for the opener and still managed my fastest CV yet :)
Click to expand...
Well i`ll see how other ones goes in my current game.
Went to watch your video and also took a look on few others you published. Now doing way better on my Prince game considering im surrounded by Iroquois, Shoshone and Germany. I dont think i`ll be able to win through culture this time but i`ll certainly try. It seems the most fun way to beat someone like Bismark with his 1 million military units (already had 1 war with him)
 
Dushku said:
Futurism grants 250 tourism to all known civs when they're born. Saving them for after Futurism doesn't accomplish anything. I thought your original question was referencing not bearing great work-ers until after Futurism. To which I pointed out that creating a few before Futurism was worth it because the culture per turn is worth it. And since the great works get made so early, they rack up the +2 tourism per turn every turn before Futurism, somewhat offsetting the 250 they lost by not being born after Futurism.
Click to expand...

I did ask that and hey, like jon said science is better for cultural victories. However, i recall another player who got a cv using futurism just like you except that he or she had saved the great workers for after futurism.
 
reddishrecue said:
I did ask that and hey, like jon said science is better for cultural victories. However, i recall another player who got a cv using futurism just like you except that he or she had saved the great workers for after futurism.
Click to expand...

Like most things in civ, there's more than one way to skin a cat. But that's precisely what my point was. I've read a LOT of posts suggesting that the ONLY way to win by Futurism is to produce all great work-ers after Futurism. That's what I thought you were saying. My apologies if I was projecting. Still, I wanted to make it very clear to those that think that that it's NOT the only way. And that it's arguably more advantageous to NOT hold off.
 
yey. Just got my 1st win on Prince level with all victory enabled
I have to say.... i lingered alot trying to find out how to beat Bismark. Shortly after discovering him we became best friends... untill ~2000 years later i built my 1st nukes and he started piling tanks on my borders. Tried cultural victory as i saw it from the "wonderless cultural victory" since Bismark was popping wonders every few turns. At the end i decided that since im whole era ahead i could just build my army and sit tight till my space station is finished... played with France BTW
 
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