The Witcher 3: The Wild Hunt

Do you truly own a game with Steam though? If steam were to go out of business, you'd lose access to your game, right?

It's... complicated.

1. The odds of Steam going bankrupt any time in the foreseeable future are somewhere between laughably slim and non-existent. Personally, I made the judgment years ago that Steam was less likely to go bankrupt than I was to lose CDs personally. So I see purchases on Steam as safer, longer-term options.

2. Unless it was the Steam game servers themselves that were the dead weight on the company, any plausible Valve bankruptcy would probably include selling or auctioning off their digital distribution; the new owner would have strong incentive to continue supporting older purchases (I don't know if they'd have any legal obligation; their licensing does try to give Valve the right to simply stop providing access to games).
There's also a persistent rumor, which I wouldn't place too much weight in personally, that Steam would provide versions of their games not requiring Steam servers if they went bankrupt. It would certainly be technically feasible. It might or might not be legally feasible, depending on their agreements with publishers. It probably wouldn't be something they'd have the time or interest in doing at that point, and it certainly isn't something their licensing agreements obligate them to do.

3. Games can be played in Offline mode even if every Steam server simultaneously is eaten by space hamsters tomorrow (or, fractionally more likely but still improbable, if Valve went bankrupt next year). So any games you currently had installed, you could keep playing, at least until you had to reformat / change computers.
Finally, I hesitate to mention this but... were Valve to go bankrupt and stop providing support for games, you'd better bet it would be open season for more... legally questionable approaches to dealing with the now-unsupported Steam DRM.

Valve might go bankrupt (unlikely any time soon, but possible; in the long run, sooner or later most companies do). If Valve went bankrupt, you might lose access to your game library (again, unlikely to happen immediately on bankruptcy, but sooner or later it'd probably happen). If you lost access to your game library, that might mean no longer being able to play the games in it (if you were unwilling to jump through any hoops to maintain access).

And one thing we can say for sure is, it's quite safe to bet that you'd have plenty of advance warning of impending shutdown before the servers actually died - plenty of time to download all your games, so you could keep them going in Offline mode afterwards.
 
You own the games. You just don't have a physical copy to install from. But it's the same situation with any online game that if they stop server support you're sol.

A real life example of this going on right now is darkspore. There was a server bug around last december where no one could log on. EA has removed all support for the game despite it requiring a server connection and they still have it for sale on origin AND then run promotional sales on it! That bug eventually got fixed, probably enough whining on forums and calls to customer support they finally said just get some intern to reboot the servers.

But now there's a second bug making the game unplayable where you can't save any hero edits. Again not likely to get resolved soon and may never. But what's the player's recourse? Not much you can do. While I still want to play darkspore it was a $5 game I got on sale and I got over 150 hours on it so still worth my money. But it happens.

A similar non online thing happened with the last might and magic title. I don't personally own it but read reviews that it was rushed due to 3do going bankrupt and it was released in unplayable state (crashed every couple minutes). Fan mods and patches sorta fixed it but still pretty bad.
 
You own the games.

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Source

In the end, most Steam users are better on Valve not going belly up and that the chance of Valve doing so is lower than their chance of losing a CD. Not that there's much legal recourse in the event Valve does go belly-up, since the terms say you're legally not allowed to sue, but instead submit to arbitrage, but that's really standard with contracts these days. All Steam users with missing games get angry and try a class-action suit? Well, you also agreed you wouldn't participate in a class-action lawsuit either.

!!Capitalism!!

Edit: Of course, I'm pretty sure Valve would recoup whatever losses forcing it to drop Steam by selling the service off to somebody else first.
 
Source

In the end, most Steam users are better on Valve not going belly up and that the chance of Valve doing so is lower than their chance of losing a CD. Not that there's much legal recourse in the event Valve does go belly-up, since the terms say you're legally not allowed to sue, but instead submit to arbitrage, but that's really standard with contracts these days. All Steam users with missing games get angry and try a class-action suit? Well, you also agreed you wouldn't participate in a class-action lawsuit either.

!!Capitalism!!

Edit: Of course, I'm pretty sure Valve would recoup whatever losses forcing it to drop Steam by selling the service off to somebody else first.

Don't forget though that just because you agree to something, even if you sign something on paper, that doesn't necessarily mean it's legally binding. A company could put, for example, a clause into the EULA that forces you to turn over your first born to them, but that kind of thing would never hold up in court. Consumers have basic rights and companies can't legally make you sign those away. Whether or not this applies to anything in the Steam T&A I don't know but don't just assume that because the Steam EULA says it, therefore it's true.
 
I bump for an awesome witcher graphic and you guys want to debate digital game ownership again? For reals?
 
Yes, welcome to the internet :p.

Nothing much to say about the graphic except that I thought the "aw yiss" caption when the 3rd Witcher is jumping was funny and now I want to play the first game again. Man the first game was badass, it might be top 5 of all time for me.
 
Don't forget though that just because you agree to something, even if you sign something on paper, that doesn't necessarily mean it's legally binding. A company could put, for example, a clause into the EULA that forces you to turn over your first born to them, but that kind of thing would never hold up in court. Consumers have basic rights and companies can't legally make you sign those away. Whether or not this applies to anything in the Steam T&A I don't know but don't just assume that because the Steam EULA says it, therefore it's true.

The arbitration clauses have already been taken to court before, and the courts ruled those clauses perfectly okay. They've done the same for class-action suits, and the courts ruled the clauses okay.

So it isn't a question of holding up to court, because both those clauses have held up in courts in contracts outside the gaming industry already.

I bump for an awesome witcher graphic and you guys want to debate digital game ownership again? For reals?

Merely correctly the statement that Steam games are actually owned, which they aren't.
 
It kinda makes me wonder what the overall budget was for the first two games. Obviously a pc/mac only title isn't going to sell that great in this day and age, so 6 million copies for the first two is pretty good. But even then it makes me wonder how much they were able to spend on production, I mean the second is basically a triple-A title with a big name publisher.
 
It kinda makes me wonder what the overall budget was for the first two games. Obviously a pc/mac only title isn't going to sell that great in this day and age, so 6 million copies for the first two is pretty good. But even then it makes me wonder how much they were able to spend on production, I mean the second is basically a triple-A title with a big name publisher.

The cost of living in Poland is a lot cheaper, the budget for The Witcher 2 was only about $10 million.
 
That's insane. The programmers and artists must make peanuts. Or maybe it just takes a lot less work than I thought, but most games of that quality and scope have a dozen programmer types and a dozen artists, plus managers and an entire testing group.
 
The cost of living in Poland is a lot cheaper, the budget for The Witcher 2 was only about $10 million.

That's insane. The programmers and artists must make peanuts. Or maybe it just takes a lot less work than I thought, but most games of that quality and scope have a dozen programmer types and a dozen artists, plus managers and an entire testing group.

Does the $10 million figure include advertising? Games made by big studios of Witcher's scope tend to also come with lots of VAs, lots of advertising, lots of everything that increases costs but doesn't add much substance.
 
There's no way that includes advertising. Also typically the publisher foots the bill for ads so atari/namco would be paying for that.

Using GTA5 as an example for ad revenue, the estimates are 137 million for development and an additional 128 million on advertising, but GTA5 had some prime spots. I saw multiple ads during really popular shows like breaking bad and walking dead, as well as prime time sports like monday night football, really expensive ads. I'm sure witcher's ad budget was way smaller (I don't even remember seeing a tv ad, mostly online stuff) but still outside that 10 mil. I also don't think that's unusual to spend as much on ads as on the game.

But again citing GTV5 as an example of a really expensive triple A title, it took like 5 years and over 1000 people to develop. Witcher 2 is obviously a smaller team, took less time, but still made for ~14 times cheaper? Like I said they must be paying those developers next to nothing.
 
Comparing GTAV to...err, nearly anything isn't exactly a good comparison. I can easily see Witcher being developed for ten million.

That's a lot of money if you're not going balls out.
 
The Witcher 1 was about 6 million USD, and it didn't have all that much marketing.

The Witcher 2 was apparently $8.5 million USD (according to CDPR's financial statement or something), with DLC, patches, enhanced and console versions bringing it up to something like $15 (I haven't found an actual source for that though). I don't know what the marketing budget was, but CD Projekt is a publisher itself and mostly teamed up with other companies for retail distribution. It was about $10 million for The Witcher 2 + DLC & probably the EE though.

The Witcher 3 has a development budget of $15 million USD with $25 million in marketing (they are marketing it a lot more than the previous titles). No distributors have been announced yet afaik.
 
It's one of the few games I'm really impatient to get my hands on.
Skyrim was beautiful but amazingly boringly shallow - still hasn't managed to finish it yet...
I love sandbox games, but they often lack depth/story. TW3 is a good hope spot to have all of it.
 
It's one of the few games I'm really impatient to get my hands on.
Skyrim was beautiful but amazingly boringly shallow - still hasn't managed to finish it yet...
I love sandbox games, but they often lack depth/story. TW3 is a good hope spot to have all of it.
I think it's the only game I'm looking forward to. I might even try to set it up to play on my TV.
 
Those games are more of long shots though. I'm keeping an eye out for their release.
 
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