RFC: a few thoughts on certain civs and starting positions

There seems to be some kind of mix up here.

People seem to be confusing culture, politics, and economics =S

erm yeah sorrry this post has no revelvance just annoyed me that the majority of it has nothing to do with starting positions.......QUOTE]

yeah me too.. though I should have known of course the most controversial statement I could make was that Americans deserved more than one star in the culture department. I know many Europeans just simply cannot stand that idea, right as it may be. :p

Anyway maybe I should have titled the thread better. Sorry about that. Maybe I should have said starting situation rather than position, though position could refer to situation or location.
 
So what I'm suggesting is some kind of stability check, or some kind of check which will prevent, or may prevent civs spawning from others. Or perhaps just have France not flip cities, but just a huge stack of barbarians appear in France, and if they get any cities, then that section of the maps barbs would flip and become France... if they failed? Then there would be no France.

Excellent on-topic post. Thanks. :)

I think that the scenario is already sort of balanced in this regard.. new civs appearing represent nationalist sentiment springing up in your empire. You have a chance to put that nationalist uprising down by reconquering the cities that declare independence. I'm actually fine with that part... I think it's kinda cool..

my point, which I'm sure from your post that you agree with, is that it just suuuuuucks when your best city declares it's independence, you put down the rebellion in a single turn or two.. and then your best city becomes your worst city because every building was destroyed in the flip. I frickin' hate that... :p it's bad for flavor and for game play IMO.
 
I agree with Ghandi Khan about American cultural hegemony. Its dominance is overwhelming. I'm currently studying in a very international setting and although there are no Americans on my course, familiarity with American culture is one of the things we can all bond over.

American music, American films, American tv, American politics (at that includes the strong Michael Moore style anti-American-hegemony politics), American-English, American cultural movements, American computer games! These are all things that anyone in the world who has everyday access to international media is very familiar with. What other nation comes close to matching that cultural influence? People who can't see the reality of American cultural hegemony, even while they laugh at the Simpsons, anticipate the next international blockbuster, download Eminem, laugh at Britney Spears, visit dozens of .com websites every week, practice English as a second language, discuss American politics and play Civilization are in a phenomenal state of denial.

QFT. And you're just in England (from your profile)... try going to Saudi Arabia, or Zambia, or Indonesia... as long as wherever you are going is not COMPLETELY isolated... you'll find it's much the same.
 
I think you have to consider what culture represents in the Civilization game. In the game, the things which ultimately produce the most culture points--by far--are the early wonders. Now, in real life, it's probably true that nobody is going to convert to Egyptian culture because they're impressed by the Pyramids, or Greek culture because of The Oracle, but those count hugely in the game. So in the game context, culture doesn't represent ephemeral culture (where the U.S. is obviously hugely dominant today), but those achievements that have stood the test of time.

And so, New York may qualify as a legendary city (it has outstanding museums, a couple of iconic international buildings, etc.) but L.A.? Not so much--it's pretty much known for Hollywood and not much else. From the way culture is gained in the game, I'm not sure it would outrank San Francisco, New Orleans or Boston, let alone Paris or Rome.

You can argue that the way culture works in the game is totally unrealistic--which is true, of course. On the other hand, you could argue that even having the U.S. as a distinct civilization is a bit dubious anyway, as so much of its culture is derived from earlier civilizations.

I see your point, but I disagree that having an early wonder is the best way to win a cultural victory. If you have Free Speech (something they never had and still don't have in Egypt), Hollywood, a Cathedral, all the regular non-wonder cultural buildings, and a few great artists... that will do more for you than building the Pyramids. You can't win a cultural victory in the normal game with just a few wonders.. you really need those bigger modifiers that come into play late in the game. I think, in game terms, this represents an acknowledgement that modern culture spreads much more quickly and can be far more powerful and influential in a shorter span of time.

Your 2nd point... I've addressed many times before in this thread. No culture is truly distinct.
 
I can't argue due to my average level of english, and i am not fond of nationalistics debates "we are the best in the world".

But of course, naturally, only a very typical american would say that cinema and hamburgers make "legendary culture". But the two most visited towns of the world are not New York or LA. Very strange for the cultural centers of the world. One day perhaps, you will learn the humility, like many other civilizations before you.

Very typical non-American egotistical and hypocritical response. Paris gets 27 million tourists per year. Orlando, Florida gets twice that number. Does that mean that Orlando's culture is twice as good as that of Paris?
(New York also gets about twice as many as Paris)

I know humility. I just hope that it never metastasizes into a bitter inferiority/superiority complex as it has for many other civilizations before.
 
I know this is a necro-bump but I have to say Jerusalem would be the most culturally advanced city in the world (I am an American). LA or NY don't compare to Rome, Paris, London, or even Berlin. LA and NY are very pervasive in American culture, but not as much in world culture. Economically and militarily we are dominant (though not invincible), culturally however we lag behind. We are more of a melting pot or even a tossed salad than a pervasive culture.
 
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