carl corey
Deity
I think the resource discovery is directly in the mine code and not considered a random event.
Vocum Sineratio: The Whip
- Thread starter VoiceOfUnreason
- Start date
VoiceOfUnreason
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2005
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Great guide..
I rarely whip, but I feel like I'm missing out on something important.. So read your guide with interest. Though, the details are fairly complex, so dunno if I'll ever bother starting to calculate enough to use this close to optimal.
The reasons I don't usually whip are.
- I hate the slave revolts, causing me turns where the city does nothing productive. How big percentage of the turns you run are wasted on average when using slavery?
- I'm rarely spiritual, so switching to slavery early often causes me one or more turns of anarchy, which is very costly. Even if you are spiritual, there's a timer for how often you can change, so changing back and forth all the time to get production bonus when whipping and XP bonus when unit completes sounds hard to make use of. When all of your cities need to whip at the exact same time.
- Managing population growth to avoid growth above happiness limit, and remember to turn it on again when you can grow is a pain. I often forget to do that.
- I'm planning what to build based on what I need in the city or in my empire. Having to reorder builds because of their cost to work around overflow caps and the like sounds little fun, and also makes the items I need soon come later.
Can you clarify the following:
How do you keep increasing the hammer overflow? Do all your builds take less than a turn to complete? Or can you save overflow on multiple items in the build queue? I thought, that if I copped or whipped, that production wasn't tied to that item in the build queue, so if I altered the build queue in the same turn after whip, I'd just apply the whipped hammers to the item I stuffed on top of queue. Can you just whip stuff, and then stuff it down the build queue, such that you can finish lots of whipped items later adding overflow many turns in a row?
I rarely whip, but I feel like I'm missing out on something important.. So read your guide with interest. Though, the details are fairly complex, so dunno if I'll ever bother starting to calculate enough to use this close to optimal.
The reasons I don't usually whip are.
- I hate the slave revolts, causing me turns where the city does nothing productive. How big percentage of the turns you run are wasted on average when using slavery?
- I'm rarely spiritual, so switching to slavery early often causes me one or more turns of anarchy, which is very costly. Even if you are spiritual, there's a timer for how often you can change, so changing back and forth all the time to get production bonus when whipping and XP bonus when unit completes sounds hard to make use of. When all of your cities need to whip at the exact same time.
- Managing population growth to avoid growth above happiness limit, and remember to turn it on again when you can grow is a pain. I often forget to do that.
- I'm planning what to build based on what I need in the city or in my empire. Having to reorder builds because of their cost to work around overflow caps and the like sounds little fun, and also makes the items I need soon come later.
Can you clarify the following:
How do you keep increasing the hammer overflow? Do all your builds take less than a turn to complete? Or can you save overflow on multiple items in the build queue? I thought, that if I copped or whipped, that production wasn't tied to that item in the build queue, so if I altered the build queue in the same turn after whip, I'd just apply the whipped hammers to the item I stuffed on top of queue. Can you just whip stuff, and then stuff it down the build queue, such that you can finish lots of whipped items later adding overflow many turns in a row?
VoiceOfUnreason
Deity
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- Dec 5, 2005
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- 3,663
Yes, exactly this. The mechanic is necessary to prevent various sorts of abuse (I'm going to whip 4 pop for a forge, then change the build to a warrior, and get crazy overflow....)
Note that this is a different mechanic from chopping.
vanatteveldt
Emperor
Whipping wonders is just like whipping anything else, although I think you get a penalty.
If playing a WE/SSE I regularly whip a wonder if it is nearing completing (ie < 10 turns) for 3 or 4 pop to prevent missing it to an AI...
Edit: Because of the wonder whip penalty, some people advocate building wonders by whipping a cheap item with maximal overflow to put the overflow into the wonder, avoiding the penalty and creating units while building the wonder. If you do it under HR while building globe theater, you can whip as fast as you regrow since the happiness is first covered by the whipped garrison, and later by the globe theatre
If playing a WE/SSE I regularly whip a wonder if it is nearing completing (ie < 10 turns) for 3 or 4 pop to prevent missing it to an AI...
Edit: Because of the wonder whip penalty, some people advocate building wonders by whipping a cheap item with maximal overflow to put the overflow into the wonder, avoiding the penalty and creating units while building the wonder. If you do it under HR while building globe theater, you can whip as fast as you regrow since the happiness is first covered by the whipped garrison, and later by the globe theatre
I wanted to bump this excellent thread with a case-study on whipping and granaries in the early game:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11777848&postcount=58
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11777848&postcount=58
VoiceOfUnreason
Deity
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Added CR18: some math about raw whipping 25 
archers.
archers.
plastiqe
Grinch
You could add a bit about storing whip overflow by building wealth. Like when you need the unit right away but don't want to use the overflow yet. Not sure what the precise numbers are for the que's but that could be a useful tip.
By the way, great article. : )
By the way, great article. : )
A classic article. 
If you would like to add or update further, I think the whip penalty associated with wonders is more varied than the 50% or 100% you cite?
malekithe wrote that the whip formula is:
If you would like to add or update further, I think the whip penalty associated with wonders is more varied than the 50% or 100% you cite?
malekithe wrote that the whip formula is:
But this is only true for the early game, and there are exceptions:malekithe said:
- Early National Wonders (Ancient to Renaissance) incur a 50% penalty (1-pop = 20 )
- Later National Wonders (Industrial Age and beyond) incur a 100% penalty (1-pop = 15 ).
- The Moai Statue are an odd exception, incurring an early 100% penalty; the National Park reverses the trend: just a 50% penalty. The game designers apparently hated the seaside, but loved greenery.
- Early World Wonders (Ancient to Renaissance) incur a 100% penalty (1-pop = 15 )
- Later World Wonders (Industrial Age and beyond) also double their penalty, to 200% (1-pop = 10 ).
- "Game winning wonders," i.e. The Apostolic Palace, UN, and Space Elevator lol cost 300% as much. (1-pop = 7.5 )
newbie q:
can someone tell me can manageing growth be done automaticaly or it is done manually?
Civ4 BTS Marathon Deity gives 90 H/P
Whipping an archer 49/50 gives Archer (1 Turn) 139/50 indicating an overflow of 89.
Whipping a warrior 26/30 gives Warrior (1 Turn) 116/30 indicating an overflow of 86.
Next turn the overflow will just be 50 respective 30 indicating that you can never get an overflow higher then the cost of the unit you are whipping, anyone else had that experience? Is it a bug? Thoughts?
Whipping an archer 49/50 gives Archer (1 Turn) 139/50 indicating an overflow of 89.
Whipping a warrior 26/30 gives Warrior (1 Turn) 116/30 indicating an overflow of 86.
Next turn the overflow will just be 50 respective 30 indicating that you can never get an overflow higher then the cost of the unit you are whipping, anyone else had that experience? Is it a bug? Thoughts?
It's not a bug, it's the way it works. In BUFFY, the excess
are turned into 
. In BUG or non-modified game, all excess are simply lost.I suspected that was the case, didn't notice it until my whip calculator was wrong.It's not a bug, it's the way it works. In BUFFY, the excess
Does BUFFY work on Win10?I don't know, but don't see why not.
