SGOTM 13 - Gypsy Kings

AlanH

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BtS SGOTM 13 - Napoleon's Revenge



Welcome to your BtS SGOTM 13 Team Thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest.

In a break with tradition, I am not going to copy the Game Details into this post. You can find them in the first post of the Maintenance Thread. If any changes occur in the game settings or rules, I shall post them in that thread, and edit that post.

Please wait until your team leader/administrator/scribe has reserved a couple of top posts in this thread for game admin information. Then post here to let your team know you have arrived.

Good luck, and remember rule #1 - ENJOY THE GAME!
 
Reserved per R1's request. NOTE: Copy/Paste from R1's first post in the Gypsy King's SGOTM 11 Team thread; minor edits for current SGOTM 13. R1 might make further revisions after he checks in.

The following are the RULES for competing as a member of the Gypsy Kings. All participants are EXPECTED to follow these rules, if you choose not to, please let me know which rules are at issue, and then I'll excuse you from further competition.

1. All standard GOTM rules apply. Mainly, we get 1 shot, no replays, period!
2. No viewing other team threads, period!
3. Have FUN, compete fairly, argue your points until your fingers bleed, or you convince a majority that your plan is superior!

The following rules taken directly from Murky Waters! Edited as needed, all credit given to Erkon!

This time around, we shall have more fun, learn even more and perform better than ever!

The following rules apply to all players in the Gypsy Kings SGOTM 13 team.

Ensure that you have read and understood the rules provided by the administrators (C-IV SGOTM Reference Thread)* and follow any ongoing discussion at the SGOTM 13 Maintenance Thread

The next player shall post a ”got it” within 24 hours of the upload of the previous game. Else the next available player has the right to post the ”got it”. These rules replaces guideline 6 and 7 in the C-IV SGOTM Reference Thread. To ensure a smooth handover, please post the ”got it” within 24 hours. The rest of the team needs the in between 24 hours to solve who's next. It is mandatory to wait at least 12 hours after the "got it" before you play, and it's recommended to wait at least 24 hours after the ”got it” before you play. Else, the difference in time zones and busy work days may prevent players to post useful advice. If you for some reason have to "unget it", please post within 24 after the "got it" if possible. We aim to play two turn sets / week.

I would like us to use something that a lot of other teams practice: a pre-play-plan. Before you start playing, please post a short plan for your turns set, including the following topics: builds, military activity per theatre, tile improvements, research, civic switches, diplomatic actions and miscellaneously. You don't need to write a novel. A sentence or two for each topic will suffice. Lets take it from there and see how it falls out. Hopefully this will enable each player to feel more responsible and active. It is not intended to replace the incredible amount of interference advice from the rest of us.

One other thing I would like us to test is a mid-turn-set upload. If you are playing while other are online, please upload and the rest of us can review the save.

I don't want the above to be a burden, so feel free to use it and we can evaluate half way into the game if these ideas are good or not.

No-one is forced to play a turn set. You don’t need to announce the reason for skipping a turn set. Any players can swap turn sets if they announce the swap in time. Since the captain has a memory capacity of a demented gold fish, I urge you to make it clear when you intend to skip a turn. Please post as quick as possible to reduce unnecessary confusion and delays.

Please use smilies and emotes in your posts as much as possible. Jokes, humor, sarcasm and offensive language can and will be misinterpreted. Remember that written text is a poor method to convey feelings. Several of us are not native to the English language (R1 for example use's American English). The differences in culture is also a source for misunderstanding. If you get upset by a post, please wait a few hours before you respond. With this in mind I would like to encourage all and everyone to trash talk to your hearts content, particularly when dV screws up.

Don’t be afraid to post things that may appear stupid or evident. Each player have strengths and weaknesses. There are numerous examples in the SGOTM4, SGOTM5 and SGOTM6 thread when the most simple rule has been unknown to several of us (such as the difference between peace treaty and cease fire). Don’t be afraid that other members will think you are stupid. As a captain, I am obliged to post the most stupid questions to ensure that the rest of the team appear brighter.

Issues where we cannot reach consensus is resolved by the active player. If you run into a situation where you need advice, please upload the save and let the rest of us take a look. Or post a quick request for advice. It’s better to delay the game a day than build the Globe Theatre in the wrong city. Don’t be afraid making mistakes though. We all screw up once in a while.

Don’t promote units until they are close to action (unless the promotion increases movement). If you are unsure of suitable promotions, don’t hesitate to bring that up for discussion. We all have very different experiences from promotions, for example barrage/CR for cats and combat vs other promotions.

Don’t play intoxicated (from alcohol, drugs or smoke). Don’t play when you are too tired. Or when you have your kids/wife screaming at you.

Try to keep track of the diplomatic events each turn, and visit each city regularly. It’s mandatory to check cities that grow or have a border expansion. Remember that the number of happy people will change due to changes in war weariness (WW), gained/lost resources etc. Keep track of specialists. We don’t want to pollute the great person pool. Please respect the micro management plans.

Please contact AlanH if your game crashes, even if you can repeat all your moves.

If you PM the team, please ensure every one receives a copy.

Remember that a lot of players read what we post. Don't be rude or disrespectful to any player not on our team.

Try to run a test game or two before we start. Your experience may either confirm or contradict some one else's, and is therefore valuable.

The goal for Team Gypsy Kings is to end among the top three teams. The ambition is to grab the GOLD!

This is the motto of the Captain: "We have an ambition to perform well and of course we want to win the gold laurel. We also want to have fun while playing and we want to learn more. It's more important to me to have fun than win the gold, and I think that it's the same for most players."

Ensure that your autosave config is set every turn. Don't forget to enable all HOF settings in case you lost them during a dual-install or whatever reason. And set the first-turn-setting to first turn = 0. This will reduce future confusion.

When you state the turn/year research is completed (or any other event), please use the turn/year that is stated by the event log. Research for example is completed at the end of a turn. The pop up thus shows the turn after the tech is learned.

When the game is over, and the staff has confirmed it's over, you are free to read other team threads. When their game is over, and the staff has confirmed it, you are free to post in their threads as well.

Ok, if you have bothered to read this far, you are eligible to either a) ignore this crap or b) provide valuable comments.

Mostly cut and pasted from last game....please ask/say if something doesn't feel right or you have a different idea!

EDIT: per R1's request, added following...

The Roster order for the Gypsy Kings for SGOTM 13 is.....

mabraham = leading off, UP NOW
adrianj = on deck
Ronnie1 = in the hole
bcool = waiting
grifftavian = waiting
Thorn = waiting
da_Vinci = waiting
 
Summary of SGOTM 13 and links to relevant information.

Rival AI's in the game can be found here...http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10236505&postcount=20

Discussion before we opened the game centered on macro strategy based on the starting screenshot we had to work with and a number of test games we created based on that picture. We pretty much decided that settling 2 cities on the starting island was the best way to make use of all the food we had available and slavery was to be employed to convert food to hammers. Most of the pages 1-5 are devoted to this testing and discussion. In this early discussion we also outlined a plan to get the Oracle before T100 with the tech to be taken still up for debate, but leaning heavily in favor of Metal Casting because of the watery map. Code of Laws was also discussed for early Caste System, but was eventually over ruled in favor of early forges and the possibility of an early Colossus.

Turnset #1 Turns 0 - 30, played by mabraham, we moved the warrior to the hill for a look just in case something extraordinary might sway us off our earlier decision to settle in place, and then decided that Settle in Place was the best option. Here is a good summary of early discussion and testing...http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10258906&postcount=217
Turnset #2, T 31 - 51, played by adrianj, Set up founding City #2

Turnset #3, T 51 - 71, played by Ronnie1, Founding City #2
Turnset #4, T 71 - 94, played by bcool, Set up Oracle for T94 whip
Turnset #5, T 94 - 108, played by Grifftavian, Complete Oracle, founded City #3 and make 1st contact with AI Victoria
 
Checking in. :wavey:

For those that didn't see it, R1 posted in the SGOTM 11 team thread that he would be traveling until the 20th, so I took the liberty of copying his first post from the Gypsy King's SGOTM 11 team thread above, and reserving his a couple of other posts for his use above.

This will be my 4th SGOTM, the second with Gypsy Kings, although several of us played with X-Team last time out. In solo games, I'm pretty comfortable playing at Noble & Prince, and have beaten the game 2 or 3 times at Monarch. I've learned quite a bit from playing in previous SGOTMs, and am looking forward to this one!
 
Checking in. I'm new to GK, but have played a previous SGOTM (9, I think - the Greek "Back to the Future" one). I agree to the team rules :)

I have read a few back-issue SGOTM threads and have played along with the last two after-the-fact. I regularly win Emperor, and have a few Immortal wins, including one BOTM. I play the BOTM every month, but often don't finish when something has gone so wrong that I can't be competitive :(

I have made and played a number of test games so far, which I'm happy to share with the team. However the kind of game will vary widely with the base map script, which we don't know yet, so I'm hesitant to offer opportunities for what might be misleading practice! :)
 
Checking in, good to have the Gypsy Kings back together again. Welcome to Thorn and mabraham :)

I played Griff's test game just a little bit...

I got beat to the Oracle in 950 BC but I think we could do it by 1000 BC or earlier with some optimization (chops and better Overflow management/MM). Or a different starting site.
The key Griff that I learned from Duckweed's writeup on the Christmas Botm was to max the overflow on all the worker and settler whips and put that towards the wonders you desire.

Initial thoughts about the game (just brainstorming--happy to see these ideas replaced by better ones or heavily modified)

-Maybe Oracle Metal Casting and go for an early GE for the pyramids.
I think we are going to have happiness and research issues with our small island start, but with the pyramids we would have a fighting chance.

-Or even whipping for max overflow into the pyramids instead of or in addition to the Oracle. It is a slog, but maybe worth it if we really are limited to tiny islands.

-I think drafting might be a way to get a decent army even on a very hammer poor start. Maybe go for gunpowder and Nationhood and draft musketeers.

-information about what is within range of a galley is super important. This will greatly affect how much we prioritize research and getting galleys going asap.

Where to settle...
-I haven't tested much but my initial thought is to settle in place so we can get the 2nd city on our little island especially if the warrior sees another seafood for the 2nd city site.
-I tried settling on the plains hill but it didn't seem as good, but much will depend on what if anything our warrior can see.
-Settling on the corn doesn't seem that strong.
 

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I have made and played a number of test games so far, which I'm happy to share with the team. However the kind of game will vary widely with the base map script, which we don't know yet, so I'm hesitant to offer opportunities for what might be misleading practice! :)

I would love to play with the test games you have made. The test games initially are probably just good for the initial game, but a full play thru on any good guess of opponents and map is useful. We all understand it won't be the same, but any experience of a full game that is close might reveal some important issues with such a limited start.
 
There's a lot in this post - collected thoughts from a few test games. Please do feel free to tear things apart :)

Exploration is hugely important. We need to know if we have neighbours, where resources are, whether we can circumnavigate pre-Optics, whether we'll need a big navy for barb defence or invasions, how much tech that navy will need behind it, getting trade routes from meeting AIs. We need (at least) an early workboat that finds at least one good expansion site and then goes off into the unknown to meet people and maybe circumnavigate.

We are :hammers:-poor, so early Slavery is probably essential - and in that context, at small-to-medium populations, 1:food: > 1:hammers: (except that rate of supply is limited). With a granary, 1:food: > 2:hammers:.

My first thoughts were to tech Fishing, Mining, BW, Sailing (in that order) while building four workboats (three to work, one to explore; the third boat gets the first whip and arrives to work the third clam perfectly as we regrow to size 3) then lighthouse (sailing research finishes just before whip-time, perfect), worker, galley, settler (about T80). The clams and land improvements (farm, mine) are each only worth +2:food: or +2:hammers:, but the clams are probably slightly better value in the first place (2:food:2:commerce: vs 3:food:) so it seems right to prioritise them over a worker.

I tried a worker-first idea Grifftavian suggested, but he ran out of useful work too soon for my liking. The only directly useful tasks are the farm, the road on the farm, the chop+mine on the plains hill, and the chop on the grassland. That's 28 turns worth (or so). Building four workboats plus galley (4*45 + 75:hammers:) will take quite a few turns... say 90:hammers: from 2 whips still leaves 15 turns of 5:hammers:/turn working plains mine (which won't be available immediately, and might conflict with working clams). Until the galley is out, our worker is not getting much value (and it doesn't explode in value even then).

Also, to stay healthy at size 5 (which is our pre-monument happy-cap), we need 2 forests and 2 health resources connected, or 3 resources. So there is some merit to not chopping the two grassland forests until we've got a trade going, or our second city out (hopefully with a different seafood, and then the chopping is into an Oracle or something). This gives an early worker even less to do... We can do speculative mines to try to pop gems, but if we don't work them, that'll suck.

My best Oracle time on my own maps is 95 turns: teching Fishing, Mining, BW, Sailing, Myst, Medi, PH, Writing and a bit of Alpha, building WB, WB, WB(whip), WB, lighthouse(whip), worker, galley (whip 2 pop), settler (finished 1 turn after PH), oracle (whip 4 pop). The worker put the farm up, a few turns on building the PFH mine, then galleyed across to the small island to get that mine up, then back to finish the PFH mine (now that the chop will go to the Oracle), then 1 side chop for the Oracle. Second city had its seafood worked (by the fourth WB, which had done 25 turns exploring in the meantime) and a replacement WB-explorer already whipped out. Paris was size 4 and Orleans size 1. I do have to waste 10:hammers: while teching Fishing at the start. I think there's no useful way around that. 10 turns on a worker before switching to WB gets that WB out 2 turns slower than using the first 11 turns to grow to size 2. I might try a worker/WB/worker, WB, WB, WB approach some time.

To get T95 I had to work those grassland forests quite a bit while building the Oracle. While (preparing for) building a wonder, 1:hammers:>1:food: because the straight whip is downvalued for a wonder. I can do a similar T96 Oracle working more of the food squares that is about 11:food:+:hammers: and 20:science: better (once both scenarios have worked T96). This is a noticeably better future springboard, but I once had one of my scenario's two Industrious AIs build an Oracle at T94. Stonehenge often comes out about T87. I do not think we have time for the Oracle to do cutesy stuff whipping small things maximizing overflow to the Oracle, because we have to spend so much time building 4 WBs, lighthouse, galley, settler before that Oracle. My Oracles are getting built less than 15 turns after the previous whip, which means there's not enough gap for playing around.

Later on in the early game, I have been noticing that the cheap +3:food: lighthouse is nice, but we actually can't sustain working our four food resource tiles and staying happy between whips (unless we go polywarrior-HR). We just don't have enough profitable-enough :hammers: tiles. Options include
  1. growing the city unhappy (accepts 2:food: lost per extra population; which I did while building my Oracles)
  2. not working (say) the grassland corn (trades 5:food: for about 1:food:3:hammers: on a grassland mine, for a comparable loss to the above)
  3. turning on avoid growth wastes at least as much as the foregoing, whether you rearrange the tiles worked or not
  4. arranging the timing for multi-population whips (but going below size 4 is probably always wrong except for a wonder, because we give up working a good tile), and
  5. building many settlers and workers

So, combining 1 and 5, to get the best value out of our geography, I think the capital will have to spend lots of time at the happy-cap (size 5 or 6 with monument) building settlers and workers, with a brief growth period (building warrior/galley/workboat) before each whip-:mad: expires, timing things so that we minimize the turns spent one size larger (when we'll be unhappy and maybe unhealthy), and do whips of more than one population only when we have a granary.

Medium term, if we haven't skittled an early AI, we proabably want HR and either CoL specialists (e.g. at size 11 we can run 7 scientists in the capital... with one-two side cities of merchants we can run an economy that works OK while continuing to expand... better with Pyramids, or Confu Pacificism), or HR+Colossus and spam population on coast tiles for the commerce.

Way down the track, the capital can become a pretty good Globe Theatre drafting center. It has enough food for 2 of our UU musketmen every 3 turns. That synergizes with our early capital-driven REX if we settle sites with about 2 food resources that can draft regularly later. Bureaucracy looks underwhelmingly good unless we capture an AI capital or something. Need to plan for 6 theatres and Drama, though.

Assuming we are semi-isolated or distant from the AIs, we'll need a serious navy. Galleys and triremes don't cut it against the millions of caravels Renaissance-era Emperor AIs tend to have.

What to Oracle? CoL or MC seem the two candidates to me. On my first play of Grifftavian's save, I Oracled CoL but got dogpiled at T150 by four barb galleys. So on a replay I Oracled MC, got four triremes up (about what I needed to avoid losing working boats) and saw no action at all. :crazyeye: MC is worth more beakers, at least. A general plan of Oracle MC, whip forge in capital (and/or side city?) and hope for GE-Pyramids while teching CoL-Philo to run a mega-SE (Rep, Caste, Paci) would be a very good use of our :food: supply. We judge whether to put NE in the capital at the time. Meanwhile, the side cities prepare a pile of workshops (+1:hammers: Caste, and later Guilds and Chemistry near our tech paths) for crushing the world with drafted UU musketmen and Trebs or Cannons. Caste is great for conquering with a draft, because we run poly-artists until we have 10% culture, and then draft the conquered cities into oblivion (well, size 5 anyway!).

Civil Service and Philo are prereqs for Nationalism for drafting, and Gunpowder is a long way away on another track. A first thought is to do Paper-Edu-Lib(bulb Nat)-Gunpowder, however experience in my test games suggests we need to have arranged for Optics and Drama also (caravels to soak damage in the invasion fleet, and Drama to get 6 theatres for the Globe Theatre). If so, since Paper, Edu and Lib of themselves do us no good for conquering, if we've been able to (say) trade away Philo for Machinery, then now Guilds-Nat-Gunpowder is probably cheaper (and then a Lib bulb for Steel may not be out of the question) and Optics is a quick diversion beforehand (so the navy is mostly ready before Gunpowder and/or Engineering is teched). If we need Astro to get to the AIs, then Paper-Edu-Lib(Astro)-build Observatory (and maybe uni)-Nat-Gunpowder-backfill is probably best.

We also need to consider carefully whether to trade with the GLH-owning AI. If they're a decent AI, then if we trade techs with them we may make a monster that we can't tech down in time to conquer along with the rest of the world. If we trade with them, they have to be first target, I think.
 
I would love to play with the test games you have made. The test games initially are probably just good for the initial game, but a full play thru on any good guess of opponents and map is useful. We all understand it won't be the same, but any experience of a full game that is close might reveal some important issues with such a limited start.

Sure. I'll upload them whenever I'm next at home.
 
I got beat to the Oracle in 950 BC but I think we could do it by 1000 BC or earlier with some optimization (chops and better Overflow management/MM). Or a different starting site.
The key Griff that I learned from Duckweed's writeup on the Christmas Botm was to max the overflow on all the worker and settler whips and put that towards the wonders you desire.

That may well be useful for later wonders... Let's see. A whip is 45:hammers: at Epic, so let's suppose we spend a turn building an axeman (53:hammers:) so there's 7:hammers: now on it. That'll whip away two population for 46:hammers: on the axeman and 44:hammers: overflow (plus the normal :hammers: production for that turn). So we've spent two turns not producing the wonder, but on the third turn we get that turn's production, plus the previous turn's production, plus 44:hammers:. So we've traded two population and 1:mad: for 44+x:hammers:. On the other hand, we could have waited until the end of the wonder to whip those two population (plus maybe others) for 45:hammers: (halved for wonder), so this does not seem to be a huge effect for wonder production (we did get an axeman for a turn's production, however). If the wonder will take more than 15 turns to build, then doing this more than once is more efficient than stockpiling unhappy and/or unhealthy people (each of which costs progressively more food). If we're prepared to accept extra :mad:, then the 15-turn proviso does not apply. I will have to read this post you mention...

-Maybe Oracle Metal Casting and go for an early GE for the pyramids.
I think we are going to have happiness and research issues with our small island start, but with the pyramids we would have a fighting chance.

I can get Lib(Nat)+ Gunpowder and about 7 cities by about 1000AD without Pyramids, running a Caste SE trading freely with the AIs, in particular for Monarchy and poly-warrior :)-source. That date feels too slow for a subsequent conq/dom and a medal, however, but this is a very slow starting position. Pyramids would help a lot. Capital forge engineer would run 60:40 engineer : prophet, which is a bit too random. The second city whipping at about size 6 (for 180:hammers:-forge) shortly after the Oracle is probably a better Great Engineer proposition, while the capital spams more settlers.

-Or even whipping for max overflow into the pyramids instead of or in addition to the Oracle. It is a slog, but maybe worth it if we really are limited to tiny islands.

-I think drafting might be a way to get a decent army even on a very hammer poor start. Maybe go for gunpowder and Nationhood and draft musketeers.

-information about what is within range of a galley is super important. This will greatly affect how much we prioritize research and getting galleys going asap.

Agreed on all.

Where to settle...
-I haven't tested much but my initial thought is to settle in place so we can get the 2nd city on our little island especially if the warrior sees another seafood for the 2nd city site.
-I tried settling on the plains hill but it didn't seem as good, but much will depend on what if anything our warrior can see.
-Settling on the corn doesn't seem that strong.

I don't love :food: as much as jesusin, but I do love all this :food:, and don't much want to share it with a second city. The warrior isn't going to see any capital-settling-relevant land tiles from the PFH. He'd have to see a seafood for me to want to entertain moving the settler. Settling on one of those three hills doesn't help our shortage of :hammers:, because we still have the same number of mine-:hammers: plus city-:hammers: regardless. I'm not sure there's land currently 3N of the warrior, but if there is, settling on the PFH (or 1N of it) would break even if we picked up a seafood, and show a profit for something really shiny, like grassland-cows/gems, or plains-gold or something. Settling on the corn seems like a huge risk to me - we might never use the single clam for anything - never mind the loss of 2:food: from settling on the corn! Settling after a few turns delay (e.g. move to PFH to allow warrior to scout one north before probably going back to the start location) seems like an outrageous gamble to me. Cheap-lighthouse clams for 5:food:2:commerce: is a damn fine tile, after all.
 
I agree that the Warrior would need to find a different type of seafood (Crabs or Fish) to consider not settling in place. I tried a Worker first approach on my test map, and I also found that the Worker ran out of useful things to do fairly soon. SIP, build a Warrior while researching Fishing, then building Work Boats while bee-lining Bronze Working, and then going on a whipping spree seems to offer a more productive start, given how few hammers we have to work with at the start.

A long term solution to the lack of hammers for a SIP Paris would be The Moai Statues. IIRC, SIP will have 12 water tiles in the BFC (3 of them Clams). The one time I did get The Oracle built in my test game, I build Moai Statues first, chopping all the forests into Moai, and then build Oracle by working hammer enhanced Clams and two Mines. The downside to that approach was that when I met the first AI Civ just after I had completed The Oracle, they had 5 or 6 cities to my two. So while a SIP Paris may be a good site for Moai, I wouldn't recommend building them until we have several more cities up and running, hopefully cities with better production that have secured Copper, Stone, Marble, Horses and/or Iron.
 
Exploration is hugely important. We need to know if we have neighbours, where resources are, whether we can circumnavigate pre-Optics, whether we'll need a big navy for barb defence or invasions, how much tech that navy will need behind it, getting trade routes from meeting AIs. We need (at least) an early workboat that finds at least one good expansion site and then goes off into the unknown to meet people and maybe circumnavigate.

agreed

Spoiler :
We are :hammers:-poor, so early Slavery is probably essential - and in that context, at small-to-medium populations, 1:food: > 1:hammers: (except that rate of supply is limited). With a granary, 1:food: > 2:hammers:.
slavery is totally essential, I agree

Spoiler :
My first thoughts were to tech Fishing, Mining, BW, Sailing (in that order) while building four workboats (three to work, one to explore; the third boat gets the first whip and arrives to work the third clam perfectly as we regrow to size 3) then lighthouse (sailing research finishes just before whip-time, perfect), worker, galley, settler (about T80). The clams and land improvements (farm, mine) are each only worth +2:food: or +2:hammers:, but the clams are probably slightly better value in the first place (2:food:2:commerce: vs 3:food:) so it seems right to prioritise them over a worker.
I agree that workboats before the first worker seems much stronger, to be verified with tests.

Spoiler :
Also, to stay healthy at size 5 (which is our pre-monument happy-cap), we need 2 forests and 2 health resources connected, or 3 resources... .
good point about the monument, and early health issues

My best Oracle time on my own maps is 95 turns: ....

I think we can do much better than this, but I now realize that it is epic speed. I think that means we can do better turnwise than my test on Normal speed with Griff's save.

Spoiler :
To get T95 I had to work those grassland forests quite a bit while building the Oracle. While (preparing for) building a wonder, 1:hammers:>1:food: because the straight whip is downvalued for a wonder. I can do a similar T96 Oracle working more of the food squares that is about 11:food:+:hammers: and 20:science: better (once both scenarios have worked T96). This is a noticeably better future springboard, but I once had one of my scenario's two Industrious AIs build an Oracle at T94. Stonehenge often comes out about T87. I do not think we have time for the Oracle to do cutesy stuff whipping small things maximizing overflow to the Oracle, because we have to spend so much time building 4 WBs, lighthouse, galley, settler before that Oracle. My Oracles are getting built less than 15 turns after the previous whip, which means there's not enough gap for playing around.

I think we are going to discuss whipping in more detail later.

Spoiler :
Later on in the early game, I have been noticing that the cheap +3:food: lighthouse is nice, but we actually can't sustain working our four food resource tiles and staying happy between whips (unless we go polywarrior-HR). We just don't have enough profitable-enough :hammers: tiles. Options include
  1. growing the city unhappy (accepts 2:food: lost per extra population; which I did while building my Oracles)
  2. not working (say) the grassland corn (trades 5:food: for about 1:food:3:hammers: on a grassland mine, for a comparable loss to the above)
  3. turning on avoid growth wastes at least as much as the foregoing, whether you rearrange the tiles worked or not
  4. arranging the timing for multi-population whips (but going below size 4 is probably always wrong except for a wonder, because we give up working a good tile), and
  5. building many settlers and workers

I think Settling the 2nd city on our initial island gives us a nice solution to this happiness problem for the capital. The 2nd city can use the corn and 1 clam that the capital can't use when we whip it down to 2 pop. The can both grow reasonably well sharing and we can use the good tiles all the time without running into as many happiness issues. They both can be heavily whipped multi-pop whipped with max OF and remain at relatively low populations...

Spoiler :
So, combining 1 and 5, to get the best value out of our geography, I think the capital will have to spend lots of time at the happy-cap (size 5 or 6 with monument) building settlers and workers, with a brief growth period (building warrior/galley/workboat) before each whip-:mad: expires, timing things so that we minimize the turns spent one size larger (when we'll be unhappy and maybe unhealthy), and do whips of more than one population only when we have a granary.

I don't think we need to wait for the unhappiness to expire, I think we try to only whip settlers and workers (after initial workboat and perhaps granary) using Overflow to finish the lighthouse and the Oracle.

Spoiler :
Medium term, if we haven't skittled an early AI, we proabably want HR and either CoL specialists (e.g. at size 11 we can run 7 scientists in the capital... with one-two side cities of merchants we can run an economy that works OK while continuing to expand... better with Pyramids, or Confu Pacificism), or HR+Colossus and spam population on coast tiles for the commerce.
I think the Pyramids is a big priority but I'm worried about how to get it done. The great person odds in a capital running an engineer with the oracle already isn't good. And getting a 2nd city in position to whip a forge and get enough gpp before pyramids is built elsewhere might be a challenge.

Spoiler :
Way down the track, the capital can become a pretty good Globe Theatre drafting center. It has enough food for 2 Musketeers every 3 turns. That synergizes with our early capital-driven REX if we settle sites with about 2 food resources that can draft regularly later. Bureaucracy looks underwhelmingly good unless we capture an AI capital or something. Need to plan for 6 theatres and Drama, though.
I agree that Globe Theatre in capial looks good. Obviously to be discussed with more information later.

Assuming we are semi-isolated or distant from the AIs, we'll need a serious navy. Galleys and triremes don't cut it against the millions of caravels Renaissance-era Emperor AIs tend to have.
navy is important and the AI do love those caravels...

Spoiler :
What to Oracle? CoL or MC seem the two candidates to me. On my first play of Grifftavian's save, I Oracled CoL but got dogpiled at T150 by four barb galleys. So on a replay I Oracled MC, got four triremes up (about what I needed to avoid losing working boats) and saw no action at all. :crazyeye: MC is worth more beakers, at least. A general plan of Oracle MC, whip forge in capital (and/or side city?) and hope for GE-Pyramids while teching CoL-Philo to run a mega-SE (Rep, Caste, Paci) would be a very good use of our :food: supply. We judge whether to put NE in the capital at the time. Meanwhile, the side cities prepare a pile of workshops (+1:hammers: Caste, and later Guilds and Chemistry near our tech paths) for crushing the world with drafted Musketeers and Trebs or Cannons. Caste is great for conquering with a draft, because we run poly-artists until we have 10% culture, and then draft the conquered cities into oblivion (well, size 5 anyway!).
Barbarian galleys really would slow us down. I think Oracling MC is the way to go for multiple reasons now. A chance at the pyramids and triremes to prevent disaster.

Spoiler :
Civil Service and Philo are prereqs for Nationalism for drafting, and Gunpowder is a long way away on another track. A first thought is to do Paper-Edu-Lib(bulb Nat)-Gunpowder, however experience in my test games suggests we need to have arranged for Optics and Drama also (caravels to soak damage in the invasion fleet, and Drama to get 6 theatres for the Globe Theatre). If so, since Paper, Edu and Lib of themselves do us no good for conquering, if we've been able to (say) trade away Philo for Machinery, then now Guilds-Nat-Gunpowder is probably cheaper (and then a Lib bulb for Steel may not be out of the question) and Optics is a quick diversion beforehand (so the navy is mostly ready before Gunpowder and/or Engineering is teched). If we need Astro to get to the AIs, then Paper-Edu-Lib(Astro)-build Observatory (and maybe uni)-Nat-Gunpowder-backfill is probably best.
Lib for steel sounds like something to shoot for. Or Lib Astro in the event we are completely isolated.

Spoiler :
We also need to consider carefully whether to trade with the GLH-owning AI. If they're a decent AI, then if we trade techs with them we may make a monster that we can't tech down in time to conquer along with the rest of the world. If we trade with them, they have to be first target, I think.
We definitely want to put all the espionage on the GLH-owning AI as soon as we meet them in the very least.
 
That may well be useful for later wonders... Let's see. A whip is 45:hammers: at Epic, so let's suppose we spend a turn building an axeman (53:hammers:) so there's 7:hammers: now on it. That'll whip away two population for 46:hammers: on the axeman and 44:hammers: overflow (plus the normal :hammers: production for that turn). So we've spent two turns not producing the wonder, but on the third turn we get that turn's production, plus the previous turn's production, plus 44:hammers:. So we've traded two population and 1:mad: for 44+x:hammers:. On the other hand, we could have waited until the end of the wonder to whip those two population (plus maybe others) for 45:hammers: (halved for wonder), so this does not seem to be a huge effect for wonder production (we did get an axeman for a turn's production, however). If the wonder will take more than 15 turns to build, then doing this more than once is more efficient than stockpiling unhappy and/or unhealthy people (each of which costs progressively more food). If we're prepared to accept extra :mad:, then the 15-turn proviso does not apply. I will have to read this post you mention...

I don't love :food: as much as jesusin, but I do love all this :food:, and don't much want to share it with a second city. The warrior isn't going to see any capital-settling-relevant land tiles from the PFH. He'd have to see a seafood for me to want to entertain moving the settler. Settling on one of those three hills doesn't help our shortage of :hammers:, because we still have the same number of mine-:hammers: plus city-:hammers: regardless. I'm not sure there's land currently 3N of the warrior, but if there is, settling on the PFH (or 1N of it) would break even if we picked up a seafood, and show a profit for something really shiny, like grassland-cows/gems, or plains-gold or something. Settling on the corn seems like a huge risk to me - we might never use the single clam for anything - never mind the loss of 2:food: from settling on the corn! Settling after a few turns delay (e.g. move to PFH to allow warrior to scout one north before probably going back to the start location) seems like an outrageous gamble to me. Cheap-lighthouse clams for 5:food:2:commerce: is a damn fine tile, after all.

I think the easiest way to convince you that multiple whips for settlers and workers and sharing the food with a 2nd city is the way to go is with a test game.

I had your same perspective until Duckweed got such tremendous results in the Christmas Botm and described it in his writeup that I linked in a previous post.

While building workers and settlers the excess food that we have is converted essentially to hammers. Then with max OF whip we convert that converted food into hammers for what we really want, the Oracle, the Pyramids etc. It works a lot better if you have Marble or Stone, but it still is a way to leverage all that food for production.

Plus we get a lot of settlers early to build our empire, and each of those cities can whip, which can get us the other things we need, galleys, etc.
 
My best Oracle time on my own maps is 95 turns: teching Fishing, Mining, BW, Sailing, Myst, Medi, PH, Writing and a bit of Alpha, building WB, WB, WB(whip), WB, lighthouse(whip), worker, galley (whip 2 pop), settler (finished 1 turn after PH), oracle (whip 4 pop).

Okay this is very good on epic speed. If you can give me a test game with this I can see if I can beat it. I might be wrong about the whip overflow strategy, but it depends on if we are sacrificing too much expansion for this early date.
 
Tried a quick run through with my test game again, managed to get Oracle on T103/1425 BC, took Metal Casting as free tech. Did a lot of whipping, trying to get optimal overflow but not always succeeding. With my map, there isn't any nearby Copper or Iron, so I had a problem with a Barb Axeman near the end. :mad:

Edited Autolog from my latest test...
Spoiler :

Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 0/750 (4000 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:17:27]
Player Comment SG13 TEST #5: REX via the Whip!
Paris founded
Paris begins: Warrior (22 turns)
Research begun: Fishing (10 Turns)
Player Comment SIP, build Warrior, research Fishing
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 7/750 (3825 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:18:52]
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris's borders expand

Turn 9/750 (3775 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:19:14]
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Fishing

Turn 10/750 (3750 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:19:21]
Research begun: Mining (12 Turns)
Research begun: Bronze Working (12 Turns)
Player Comment discovered Fishing, bee-line BW
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris grows to size 2

Turn 11/750 (3725 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:20:11]
Paris begins: Work Boat (45 turns)
Player Comment Paris @ Size 2; chg build to WB, working FPH & FG tiles
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Buddhism founded in a distant land

Turn 19/750 (3525 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:22:17]
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris finishes: Work Boat

Turn 20/750 (3500 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:22:20]
A Fishing Boats was built near Paris
Player Comment WB completed, nets Clams 1NE; finishing Warrior while working Clams & FPH tile
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Mining

Turn 22/750 (3450 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:23:55]
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris finishes: Warrior

Turn 23/750 (3425 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:23:59]
Paris begins: Work Boat (12 turns)
Player Comment Warrior complete, building WB
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 25/750 (3375 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:24:47]
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Hinduism founded in a distant land

Turn 33/750 (3175 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:25:08]
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris finishes: Work Boat

Turn 34/750 (3150 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:25:11]
Paris begins: Worker (15 turns)
A Fishing Boats was built near Paris
Player Comment WB completed, nets Clams 1N; building Worker while working both Clams
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 39/750 (3025 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:27:36]
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Bronze Working

Turn 40/750 (3000 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:27:38]
Research begun: Sailing (235 Turns)
Player Comment discovered BW, revolt to Slavery; researching Sailing
100% Research: 0 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Civics Change: TEST SGOTM XIII(France) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'

Turn 46/750 (2850 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:29:22]
Player Comment Whip Worker for 1 pop w/32 hammer overflow
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Paris
Paris finishes: Worker

Turn 47/750 (2825 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:31:14]
Paris begins: Warrior (22 turns)
Player Comment Worker starts Corn Farm; building Warrior = 1 turn
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris finishes: Warrior

Turn 48/750 (2800 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:33:02]
Paris begins: Work Boat (45 turns)
Player Comment Warrior complete, building Work Boat
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris grows to size 2

Turn 54/750 (2650 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:35:11]
A Farm was built near Paris
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris grows to size 3

Turn 55/750 (2625 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:35:15]
Player Comment Corn Farm complete, Worker builds roads Corn Farm to FPH; Paris @ size 3, working 2 Clams & FPH
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 56/750 (2600 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:37:09]
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Sailing

Turn 57/750 (2575 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:37:15]
Research begun: Mysticism (8 Turns)
Player Comment discovered Sailing, researching Mysticism
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 59/750 (2525 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:39:22]
Player Comment Whip WB for 1 pop w/ 39 hammer overflow
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Paris
Paris finishes: Work Boat

Turn 60/750 (2500 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:40:37]
Paris begins: Work Boat (45 turns)
Player Comment WB heads for 3rd Clam resource, building 4th WB for exploration
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 61/750 (2475 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:42:13]
A Fishing Boats was built near Paris
Player Comment Whip 4th WB for 1 pop w/ 41 hammer overflow
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Paris
Paris grows to size 2
Paris finishes: Work Boat

Turn 62/750 (2450 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:43:48]
Paris begins: Worker (13 turns)
Player Comment 4th WB sets sail for exploration, building another Worker to let whip unhappiness die down a bit
Player Comment Worker starts pre-chopping Mine on FPH
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 64/750 (2400 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:47:48]
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Mysticism

Turn 65/750 (2375 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:47:58]
Research begun: Meditation (12 Turns)
Player Comment discovered Mysticism, researching Meditation
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 68/750 (2300 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:51:06]
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris finishes: Worker

Turn 69/750 (2275 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:51:12]
Paris begins: Galley (75 turns)
Player Comment 2nd Worker complete in Paris, building Galley
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 70/750 (2250 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:52:24]
A Mine was built near Paris
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 73/750 (2175 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:54:50]
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Judaism founded in a distant land

Turn 74/750 (2150 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:55:00]
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris grows to size 3

Turn 75/750 (2125 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:55:32]
Player Comment Paris @ size 3, whip Galley for 1 pop w/ 7 hammer overflow
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Paris
Paris's borders expand
Paris finishes: Galley

Turn 76/750 (2100 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:57:12]
Paris begins: Monument (45 turns)
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Paris
Tech research finished: Meditation

Turn 77/750 (2075 BC) [20-Feb-2011 11:58:51]
Research begun: Priesthood (8 Turns)
Player Comment discovered Meditation, researching Priesthood
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 80/750 (2000 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:00:51]
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris grows to size 3

Turn 81/750 (1975 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:01:24]
Player Comment Paris @ size 3, working all 3 Clams
100% Research: 15 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 83/750 (1925 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:05:33]
A Mine was built near Paris
100% Research: 15 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 84/750 (1900 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:05:45]
100% Research: 15 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Priesthood

Turn 85/750 (1875 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:06:08]
Research begun: Pottery (8 Turns)
Player Comment discovered Priesthood, researching Pottery; whip Monument for 1 pop w/ 17 hammer overflow
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Paris
Paris grows to size 3
Paris finishes: Monument

Turn 86/750 (1850 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:08:13]
Paris begins: The Oracle (45 turns)
Player Comment Paris back to size 3, working 2 Clams + PH Mine, building The Oracle
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 91/750 (1725 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:14:57]
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Paris

Turn 92/750 (1700 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:15:19]
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris grows to size 4

Turn 93/750 (1675 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:15:57]
A Mine was built
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 94/750 (1650 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:16:44]
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Pottery

Turn 95/750 (1625 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:17:04]
Research begun: Animal Husbandry (15 Turns)
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 97/750 (1575 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:19:22]
A Cottage was built near Paris
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 98/750 (1550 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:19:56]
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris grows to size 5

Turn 103/750 (1425 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:22:56]
Player Comment Whip The Oracle for 2 pop w/zero hammer overflow
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Paris
Paris finishes: The Oracle

Turn 104/750 (1400 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:25:29]
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Metal Casting
Paris begins: Settler (15 turns)
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 106/750 (1350 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:27:09]
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Paris

Turn 108/750 (1300 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:27:47]
A Cottage was built near Paris
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 109/750 (1275 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:27:54]
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Animal Husbandry

Turn 110/750 (1250 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:28:12]
Research begun: Iron Working (29 Turns)
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 117/750 (1075 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:31:03]
Player Comment Whip Settler for 1 pop w/31 hammer overflow
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Paris
Paris finishes: Settler

Turn 118/750 (1050 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:33:39]
Paris begins: Lighthouse (45 turns)
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 119/750 (1025 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:34:46]
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris grows to size 3

Turn 120/750 (1000 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:35:40]
Orleans founded
Orleans begins: Monument (45 turns)
100% Research: 18 per turn
0% Gold: -2 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 121/750 (975 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:36:57]
80% Research: 14 per turn
20% Gold: 1 per turn, 1 in the bank

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Paris

Turn 123/750 (925 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:38:04]
A Cottage was built near Orleans
80% Research: 15 per turn
20% Gold: 1 per turn, 3 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris grows to size 4
Paris finishes: Lighthouse

Turn 124/750 (900 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:38:13]
Paris begins: Warrior (5 turns)
80% Research: 16 per turn
20% Gold: 2 per turn, 4 in the bank

Turn 128/750 (800 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:39:57]
80% Research: 16 per turn
20% Gold: 2 per turn, 12 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris grows to size 5
Paris finishes: Warrior

Turn 129/750 (775 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:40:29]
Paris begins: Settler (10 turns)
80% Research: 16 per turn
20% Gold: 2 per turn, 14 in the bank

Turn 131/750 (725 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:44:25]
100% Research: 21 per turn
0% Gold: -2 per turn, 14 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Confucianism founded in a distant land
While defending in French territory at Orleans, Warrior 2 (Paris) (1.04/2) defeats Barbarian Warrior (Prob Victory: 90.1%)

Turn 133/750 (675 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:46:40]
Player Comment Whip Settler in Paris for 2 pop w/8 hammer overflow
100% Research: 20 per turn
0% Gold: -2 per turn, 10 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Paris
Paris finishes: Settler

Turn 134/750 (650 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:49:00]
Paris begins: Granary (90 turns)
100% Research: 18 per turn
0% Gold: -3 per turn, 8 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Iron Working

Turn 135/750 (625 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:49:54]
Research begun: Masonry (7 Turns)
100% Research: 18 per turn
0% Gold: -3 per turn, 5 in the bank

Turn 136/750 (600 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:54:15]
100% Research: 20 per turn
0% Gold: -3 per turn, 2 in the bank

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Paris

Turn 137/750 (575 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:54:49]
90% Research: 16 per turn
10% Gold: -2 per turn, 1 in the bank

After End Turn:
Orleans finishes: Monument

Turn 138/750 (550 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:55:26]
Orleans begins: Granary (23 turns)
80% Research: 15 per turn
20% Gold: 0 per turn, 1 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris grows to size 4

Turn 140/750 (500 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:56:54]
80% Research: 16 per turn
20% Gold: 2 per turn, 3 in the bank

After End Turn:
Orleans grows to size 2

Turn 141/750 (485 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:57:18]
A Farm was built near Orleans
80% Research: 16 per turn
20% Gold: 2 per turn, 5 in the bank

Turn 142/750 (470 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:57:59]
80% Research: 16 per turn
20% Gold: 2 per turn, 7 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Masonry

Turn 143/750 (455 BC) [20-Feb-2011 12:59:53]
Research begun: Writing (10 Turns)
80% Research: 16 per turn
20% Gold: 2 per turn, 9 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris grows to size 5
A Hamlet was built near Orleans

Turn 145/750 (425 BC) [20-Feb-2011 13:01:50]
Lyons founded
Lyons begins: Walls (38 turns)
80% Research: 20 per turn
20% Gold: 0 per turn, 13 in the bank

Turn 146/750 (410 BC) [20-Feb-2011 13:03:15]
Orleans begins: Warrior (22 turns)
80% Research: 18 per turn
20% Gold: -1 per turn, 13 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Orleans
Paris finishes: Granary
Orleans finishes: Warrior

Other Player Actions:
While defending in French territory at Lyons, Warrior 2 (Paris) loses to Barbarian Axeman (4.45/5) (Prob Victory: 0.0%)

Turn 147/750 (395 BC) [20-Feb-2011 13:03:51]
Paris begins: Warrior (3 turns)
Orleans begins: Warrior (22 turns)
A Mine was built near Orleans
80% Research: 18 per turn
20% Gold: -1 per turn, 12 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris's borders expand

Other Player Actions:
While defending in French territory at Lyons, Warrior 3 (Paris) loses to Barbarian Axeman (3.80/5) (Prob Victory: 1.9%)
Lyons lost
 
Edit: I'll now use this post to keep some relevant game info up to date where it is more easily accessible.

Leader Info:

Victoria First met after end T105 / 1375 BC
Fav Civic: Representation (not likely to be shared with her at any stage)
80% NoWarProb at Pleased. So there's still a reasonable chance.
iDemandRebukedSneakProb = 0. So if she demands stuff, there's little chance of her sneakily declaring on us.
iTechTradeKnownPercent = 30. Reasonably low, ie, less than 1/3, so in general she could trade monopoly techs if she has only met one other AI.
Tech Threshold = Cautious or better.
Bribe war Threshold = Pleased or better, provided target is Pleased or worse.
Must be Pleased or better to diplomatically convert her religion, Friendly or better for civics.
I don't fully understand UnitAI values, but hers is 100 for RESERVE_SEA - implying she's likely to build a decent navy?

Isabella First met during T113
Fav Civic: Theocracy (we might get this, but it'll only matter if we share her religion)
90% NoWarProb at Pleased. So there's still a small chance.
iDemandRebukedSneakProb = 60. So if she demands stuff and we really don't want war, consider handing it over.
iTechTradeKnownPercent = 60. High, more than half. She's a pain to trade techs with.
Tech Threshold = Cautious or better. But even that is difficult if you don't share her religion.
Bribe war Threshold = Pleased or better, provided target is Pleased or worse.
Must be Friendly or better to diplomatically convert her religion, Pleased or better for civics.

Willem First met during T126
Fav Civic: Free Religion (easy guy to be friends with)
80% NoWarProb at Pleased. So there's still a small chance.
iDemandRebukedSneakProb = 50. So if he demands stuff and we really don't want war, consider handing it over.
iTechTradeKnownPercent = 15. That's really quite low - eg, 1/6 or 2/7.
Tech Threshold = Annoyed or better. Anything short of declaring war on him and we could still trade techs.
Bribe war Threshold = Friendly, provided target is Cautious or worse. Forget about it really.
Must be Cautious or better to diplomatically convert his religion, Pleased or better for civics. So, he's a pretty easy guy to please.

Catherine Owns the GLH! First met after end T124
Fav Civic: Hereditary Rule (Conflicts with our favourite government - Representation)
80% NoWarProb at Pleased. So there's still a small chance.
iDemandRebukedSneakProb = 80. So if she demands stuff and we really don't want war, consider handing it over.
iTechTradeKnownPercent = 20. Pretty low. Need at least 2 AI to know a tech before she'll consider sharing it.
Tech Threshold = None. No matter how much she hates you, she'll still consider tech trading. Provided you aren't her actual worst enemy that is.
Bribe war Threshold = Friendly or better, provided target is *anything*!
Must be Pleased or better to diplomatically convert her religion, Cautious or better for civics.

Joao First met during T111
Fav Civic: Hereditary Rule (Conflicts with our favourite government - Representation)
100% NoWarProb at Pleased. 70% at Cautious. He's actually one of the least likely to declare war I think.
iDemandRebukedSneakProb = 40. Fairly average, read what you like I guess.
iTechTradeKnownPercent = 40. Just under half, so not great for tech trading.
Tech Threshold = Annoyed or better. Anything short of declaring war on him and we could still trade techs.
Bribe war Threshold = Pleased, provided target is Annoyed or worse. Might be able to work with that.
Must be Pleased or better to diplomatically convert his religion, Pleased or better for civics.

Ragnar First met during T143 / 455 BC
Fav Civic: Hereditary Rule (Conflicts with our favourite government - Representation)
90% NoWarProb at Pleased. 50% at Cautious. It feels like it should be worse than this - the real problem is his iMaxWarRand and iLimitedWarRand values are really low = he is often in the mood for war.
iDemandRebukedSneakProb = 20. Reasonably low, but this is Ragnar we're talking about.
iTechTradeKnownPercent = 30. Pretty average.
Tech Threshold = Pleased or better.
Bribe war Threshold = Cautious, provided target is Annoyed or worse. Might be able to work with that.
Must be Pleased or better to diplomatically convert his religion, Pleased or better for civics.
 
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