anandus
Errorist
Eh? Why is that?
Italy is hardly known for being a trade empire.
Venice would make a lot more sense.
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- Thread starter nunor
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Italy is hardly known for being a trade empire.
Venice would make a lot more sense.
ImperialChaos
President
Culture plays a big part too.
They both actually satisfy BNW's new features.
Italy - Culture, Venice - Trade.
They were known for both but each were more dominant in these areas
Crodface
Chieftain
Personally, I would love it. The art, culture, and trade that came from the Italian peninsula during the Renaisance dominated the western world. And it was very distinct from the Roman era that was nearly 2,000 years before. It makes sense to me.
Although I am an Italian, so I am biased.
Venice, Genoa and Pisa are part of Italy and they were the main trade powers of the middle-ages.
Both likely to happen.
I think exploration at Medieval also means that one of Commerce or Patronage is going to move to the Renaissance (probably Commerce). It looks more sensible to have 2 trees open at Medieval and 2 at Renaissance then 3 at Medieval and 1 at Renaissance.
Crodface
Chieftain
Well if they go with Renaissance Italy as a conglomeration of Italian city-states, kind of like they did with Greece, then they were definitely a trade powerhouse. Genoa, Milan, Florence, and Venice were all centers of trade.
nunor
King
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anandus
Errorist
Italy came into existence in 1861.
ImperialChaos
President
Yeah in the beginning I thought Rome would just represent Italy, but that is foolish. Italians in Naples, Florence, Milan, or Venice wouldn't identify themselves as Roman. It's an ancient civilization.
Loaf Warden
(no party affiliation)
Greece came into existence in 1822. What's your point?
Crodface
Chieftain
So you don't identify yourself with the Roman civilization, or are you just greedy?
I am definitely not Roman. I am Sicilian by blood, although I live on the mainland now. There are very distinct cultures and languages within Italy and none of them are Roman, except for maybe Lazio.
For instance, if I try to speak Sicilian with someone from Lombardia, they will legitimately understand maybe 10% of what I am saying.
After the fall of the Romans there was a long period, like 1,500 years, where there was a strong evolution of cultures. Sicily is one of the most conquered territories on the planet, so the mixture of cultures transformed into something very distinct.
bouncymischa
Synthetic Genie
I'm just kind of glad to see Aesthetics will be Classical... in games where I'm going for Rationalism, it gets kind of dull just working on Ancient policy trees while waiting for the Medieval policy trees to open up. Aesthetics will give me something else to do in the interim.
anandus
Errorist
That Greece also shouldn't be like that, especially since it's leader is a Macedonian
Something like "Grecian City States" with Pericles would make a lot more sense.
But thinking of Italy, I don't think of the city state empires like Venice Genua, Siena, Pisa, Florence, etc. Thinking of Italy, I think of Piedmont, Garibaldi, Victor Emmanual, Mussolini, etc.
I'd find it very strange (just like I find Greece strange
)But maybe it's just my view of Italy.
But this is getting offtopic
cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
The trade UA doesn't have to be with Italy or even a European civ, it could be for Morocco or Indonesia or something else.
Loaf Warden
(no party affiliation)
Those are all still Italian. The region was always called "Italy". A Renaissance Italian civ would be a city-state agglomeration rather than a nation-state, but so is Greece. It would hardly be beyond the pale for this franchise.
ImperialChaos
President
If a unified Greece under a Macedonian king can make it into CIV then a unified Italy with a Venetian or Florentine leader can too.
Crodface
Chieftain
That Greece also shouldn't be like that, especially since it's leader is a Macedonian
Something like "Grecian City States" with Pericles would make a lot more sense.
But thinking of Italy, I don't think of the city state empires like Venice Genua, Siena, Pisa, Florence, etc. Thinking of Italy, I think of Piedmont, Garibaldi, Victor Emmanual, Mussolini, etc.
I'd find it very strange (just like I find Greece strange
But maybe it's just my view of Italy.
It's not that strange. Like I said, I am an Italian and even still there are many that don't view us as the same nation. Those in the north do not like those in the south, etc. La Lega Nord comes to mind.
And during the Renaissance this was even truer. But even still, the Renaissance is undoubtedly an Italian-centric period. And by that, I mean the city-states on the Italian peninsula that shared a core culture. How can you have great artists making great works and not have Michelangelo or da Vinci?
They also dominated trade (Milan, Genoa, Venice). And with the archaelogy system, I'm not sure there is a country with more ancient sites, ruins, etc. than Italy. It makes sense to me for Brave New World.
They fit perfectly and we already have a precedent of a nation being a conglomeration of city-states with Greece. I know you said you don't like it, but still.
anandus
Errorist
That's true.
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