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Fluxx · May 14, 2013

I would be seriously insulted if Indonesia becomes a Civ.

It barely is a country for 50 years, and hasnt had a significant impact on history, nor does it have now.

It is as likely and justifiable to put Belarus or Uzbekistan into the game.

anandus · May 14, 2013

Well, after China, India and the US it is the largest country in the world.

Leugi · May 14, 2013

Fluxx said:
I would be seriously insulted if Indonesia becomes a Civ.

It barely is a country for 50 years, and hasnt had a significant impact on history, nor does it have now.

It is as likely and justifiable to put Belarus or Uzbekistan into the game.

Indonesia, not as in modern Indonesia only, but also Majapahit and all the history of Empires that were in the Indonesian territory (like China, and India)

cybrxkhan · May 14, 2013

Fluxx said:
I would be seriously insulted if Indonesia becomes a Civ.

It barely is a country for 50 years, and hasnt had a significant impact on history, nor does it have now.

It is as likely and justifiable to put Belarus or Uzbekistan into the game.

I guess China and India shouldn't be in the game either because they, as countries, are also around 50 years old.

wigwam · May 14, 2013

Fluxx said:
I would be seriously insulted if Indonesia becomes a Civ.

It barely is a country for 50 years, and hasnt had a significant impact on history, nor does it have now.

It is as likely and justifiable to put Belarus or Uzbekistan into the game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Indonesia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srivijaya
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majapahit_empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sultanate_of_Banten

This isn't rocket science.

seancolorado · May 14, 2013

Fluxx said:
I would be seriously insulted if Indonesia becomes a Civ.

It barely is a country for 50 years, and hasnt had a significant impact on history, nor does it have now.

It is as likely and justifiable to put Belarus or Uzbekistan into the game.

Wow...

Fluxx · May 14, 2013

cybrxkhan said:
I guess China and India shouldn't be in the game either because they, as countries, are also around 50 years old.

Both India and China have a much richer culture and history than what we now know as Indonesia.

Also both India and China have a massive impact on modern society.

China can be considered a country since the Emperors reign started, and the warlords ended.

India can be considered a country since 1885.

wigwam said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Indonesia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srivijaya
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majapahit_empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sultanate_of_Banten

This isn't rocket science.

First of all I am Dutch, so I am very much aware of the status when it was a colony.
Srivijaya is NOT Indonesia, it is like saying Rome and Italy are the same thing, or the celts and United Kingdom.

Red Pearl · May 14, 2013

I am

they answered some of our Qs. I would just like to thank Firaxis.

wigwam · May 14, 2013

Oh, also, you know who's from Uzbekistan? This guy.

So Uzbekistan would actually be pretty damn legit too.

Liufeng · May 14, 2013

Just a wild guess, but don't you thonk there's a slime possibility for the European civ being something like ... The Holy Roman Empire ? It makes sense : there's possibilities for the cities, can have northern italian CS (like Milan or Genoa), it's european, was present on Civ IV, ... It's very possible.

Eagle Pursuit · May 14, 2013

Liufeng said:
Just a wild guess, but don't you thonk there's a slime possibility for the European civ being something like ... The Holy Roman Empire ? It makes sense : there's possibilities for the cities, can have northern italian CS (like Milan or Genoa), it's european, was present on Civ IV, ... It's very possible.

I have this horrible feeling in my stomach that it could be the Normans. That damned Motte and Bailey on the poster haunts me. I don't give it much credence, but it's possible.

Crodface · May 14, 2013

Liufeng said:
Just a wild guess, but don't you thonk there's a slime possibility for the European civ being something like ... The Holy Roman Empire ? It makes sense : there's possibilities for the cities, can have northern italian CS (like Milan or Genoa), it's european, was present on Civ IV, ... It's very possible.

It very well could be. It could be anything. Firaxis has been known to surprise us from time to time.

It could even be something like Switzerland as Swiss Banks may have something to do with International Trade.

ScottMcPwn · May 14, 2013

Liufeng said:
Just a wild guess, but don't you thonk there's a slime possibility for the European civ being something like ... The Holy Roman Empire ? It makes sense : there's possibilities for the cities, can have northern italian CS (like Milan or Genoa), it's european, was present on Civ IV, ... It's very possible.

Ugh, I'd rather see Luxembourg than the HRE.

seancolorado · May 14, 2013

Fluxx said:
Both India and China have a much richer culture and history than what we now know as Indonesia.

Also both India and China have a massive impact on modern society.

China can be considered a country since the Emperors reign started, and the warlords ended.

India can be considered a country since 1885.

First of all I am Dutch, so I am very much aware of the status when it was a colony.
Srivijaya is NOT Indonesia, it is like saying Rome and Italy are the same thing, or the celts and United Kingdom.

Good to know you're Dutch.

I'm Indonesian. And Srivijaya is Indonesia. Yes, it's not "Indonesia" in the modern political entity sense but it is still very much Indonesia.

The point is, we know Civ 5 will never include variations of Indonesia because of Western bias, so Indonesia supporters like me are only asking for an "Indonesia" civ even if that means an unfair blob of their history. If I made the game and I was appealing to a Southeast Asian audience? Of course I would have Majapahit as separate from Srivijaya as separate from modern Indonesia.

But make no mistake: The cultural, economic, and just general evolution of ancient empires in that region have very much led to Indonesia and there is a sense of shared history and pride that goes back even as far back, for some, as the 1st Century

Edit: grammar

Eagle Pursuit · May 14, 2013

Crodface said:
It very well could be. It could be anything. Firaxis has been known to surprise us from time to time.

It could even be something like Switzerland as Swiss Banks may have something to do with International Trade.

Geneva = city-state, ergo no Switzerland.

ImperialChaos · May 14, 2013

Eagle Pursuit said:
I have this horrible feeling in my stomach that it could be the Normans. That damned Motte and Bailey on the poster haunts me. I don't give it much credence, but it's possible.

Wasn't that in the Vikings scenario?

Liufeng · May 14, 2013

ImperialChaos said:
Wasn't that in the Vikings scenario?

Totally, I'm playing it right now^^

Eagle Pursuit · May 14, 2013

ImperialChaos said:
Wasn't that in the Vikings scenario?

Yes. But why is it on the poster? WHHHYYY? If they were just filling space they could have used the Brazilwood Camp. It haunts me!

Human Crouton · May 14, 2013

Crodface said:
It very well could be. It could be anything. Firaxis has been known to surprise us from time to time.

It could even be something like Switzerland as Swiss Banks may have something to do with International Trade.

Banks produce 50% more :c5gold:

for each International Trade Route with a civilization following the Autocracy Ideology.

Civciv5 · May 14, 2013

The impact of Indonesia on civilization is not as large as China or India.
But they are at least on par with Siam. Saying they would not deserve to be a civ is just very hypocrite if you look at Songhai or the Zulu. The combined achievements of all empires of Indonesia are among the civs that shpuld actually have been included long time ago, maybe even as base civ.
Once again, they have disappointed me, this so called information is not really cheering me up.
I'm more excited about the ongoing Eurovision Song Contest right now.

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