SGOTM 13 - Maintenance Thread

Someone has PM'd me to suggest that reloading an Autosave for checking or screenshots may be dangerous, as it may have been autosaved before an AI pop-up. If this is true then you may see the pop-up again when you reload it, and have to respond to it again. That would look like an irreversible change.

I currently have no evidence that this is the case, and I would have thought the autosave would only be made after the AI have finished their actions - including asking you questions. However, I recommend that you avoid using autosaves for this purpose, as a precaution until we can determine whether this is a real hazard.
 
Yes indeed, the autosave is made before the AIs contact you.

However, if a save is made mid-turn, there should be no problem to load one of these, right? (f.e. the official saves uploaded)
 
I can't see how a manual save can be generated with a pending AI contact, so they should be safe from this issue ... but still vulnerable to human finger trouble :)

So does an AI do nothing more after contacting you, regardless of your response?
 
Yes, but if the autosave has happened, presumably they've finished their turn. So declaring war would leave you with first strike ?
 
In my first SG, someone paused at an AI request and uploaded. I opened the save and didn't know anything about the pause function and inadvertantly managed to make the game start moving forward. I freaked and shut off my computer so I wouldn't see what happened. Then when I opened the save again, and the pop-up came back, but it was an entirely different request. :eek: (I reported this catastrophe to ALanH, for those who are wondering...) Anyway, I would use the pause function and the autosaves with a great deal of circumspection.
 
AlanH said:
Yes, but if the autosave has happened, presumably they've finished their turn. So declaring war would leave you with first strike ?
Click to expand...

The autosave happens in the IBT, just before the AI contacts you... which brings us to LTC's post... it seems the game has decided an AI will contact you but not necessarily with what option.

The DoW I spoke of is the iDemandRebukedSneakProb variable: if you accept the AI's demand, nothing happens. If you refuse, the AI automatically DoWs you.

For example...

Autosave at 1000AD
Montezuma contacts you demanding you give him Education
You accept
Get 10 turns forced peace deal
Exit civ4
Upload autosave
...

load 1000AD autosave
Montezuma contacts you demanding you give him Education
You refuse
Montezuma DoWs you instantly
...

All of this happens before the player's "normal turn" begins. Which means the AI can still move its units (so not the first strike for the player).

Therefore to inspect cities/techs/etc, the person is forced to make a decision that could be different from the first time through and could flag something in BUFFY (speculating here).

~~~

To be safe, I'd disallow loading autosaves (except forced situation ofc) but any manual save will not face this situation. However, this is only my opinion so take it with a grain of salt :)
 
Thanks kossin.

OK, let's make that official.

Autosaves should NOT be loaded for any purpose other than to recover from a crash.
 
I would just like to remind EVERYONE about the SPIRIT of the rules for xOTM's in general. You get 1 shot, on a map you haven't seen, no replays, period. It is pretty simple really! :)
 
I have posted an HOF error on the TNT thread -- admin access
MacBookPro running Boot Camp and Windows 7.
-Thanks.
 
Some of you have been trying to upload a 4000 BC save and seeing an error message.

As the error message says, you can't upload a new 4000 BC file. It would "hide" the original 4000 BC file. If you want to show your team what you can see then either post a screenshot or - if they really can't resist playing with the live save (why?) then attach it to a post in your thread.

AlanH
 
AlanH said:
As the error message says, you can't upload a new 4000 BC file. It would "hide" the original 4000 BC file. If you want to show your team what you can see then either post a screenshot or - if they really can't resist playing with the live save (why?) then attach it to a post in your thread.
Click to expand...

No amount of screen shots can provide as much information as in the live save itself, so posting the live save is preferred.

(Every player on the Team must use extreme care with the live save or they should not load it. Any player that makes an irreversible move will have to deal with the wrath of his teammates and possibly also that of the SGOTM admin.)

(To upload the game to the server, at least one "End of Turn" command must be processed by the Game, so the initial save does not have the same turn # as the save being uploaded; this fact is not limited to a turn 0 [BC 4000] initial save.)

Sun Tzu Wu
 
As far as the submission system is concerned, it *is* only a limitation at 4000 BC. You can upload as many files as you like for the same game date after that. However, the system will only list the last file uploaded for each year*.

*Note that I said "year" - if you get to the late game where there are several turns per year, you will only see the latest save in a year.
 
The flying camera "trick" is a known bug, it's not an intended part of CIV, not within the spirit of fair play and good gamesmanship, imo, therefore it's cheating. EDIT: I'm backing off on such strong language. Apologies to anyone I've offended.
 
LowtherCastle said:
The flying camera "trick" is a known bug, it's not an intended part of CIV, not within the spirit of fair play and good gamesmanship, imo, therefore it's cheating.
Click to expand...
I've read this somewhere in the previous SG. Can anyone please enlighten me on that? I've tried all the key commands but i wasn't able to find it. The only command for camera i know is Alt+F.
 
It's part of the delivered game. Since it's available to all players (enable it in the .ini file), I don't see it as something we can or should ban.

If we did try to ban it, someone could switch it on, use it, and switch it off again and we would never know.
 
AlanH said:
It's part of the delivered game. Since it's available to all players (enable it in the .ini file), I don't see it as something we can or should ban.

If we did try to ban it, someone could switch it on, use it, and switch it off again and we would never know.
Click to expand...

Pointless banning now as most of the experienced teams have probably already used it. More to the point how can you prove that someone has not used it? I would agree it is part of the game.

Just like the code on the ini files to give all techs pre spaceship. :lol::lol:
 
It's a matter of agreement. If teams agree to use it in the competition, fine. If not, fine.

If we agree to not use it and some cheat, who cares? I couldn't care less about cheaters and their bad consciences. As AlanH has often said, "All for some pixels on the screen?"

AlanH's argument that it's part of the delivered game is a fair argument. I could accept that.
 
LowtherCastle said:
The flying camera "trick" is a known bug, it's not an intended part of CIV, not within the spirit of fair play and good gamesmanship, imo, therefore it's cheating.
Click to expand...

I don't like this kind of offensive assertion! Personally I have not used it myself and I don't think it affected any of our game. If you read carefully of our discussion of SGOTM12, you could easily find that our grand strategy was already determined before the real save was released.

Duckweed

Sep 8, 10:00 pm
If you start the settler at size 3 (the 3rd citizen can work at the 3H
tile, which in fact produces 5H for the settler), then 2nd city can
work on the improved gold mine from beginning.
Whether to start 3rd worker or 2nd settler depends on what we can find
in the southern ocean. If a seafood tile found, then a 3rd city as
soon as possible is preferred since the site 3S1E is a better site for
GLH. Therefore I think a stop after the 2nd border pop is needed for
possible revision of plan. However I suggest to continue on the play
instead of uploading the save, people can easily found out where you
settled from the culture chart.
The prediction thing rolo1 posted should reveal very little
information in this game. The opponents are known, we starts in the
eastern edge, the only direction to scout is westbound. Whether the
opponents have coastal start has little impact on our strategy, we
will go for GLH and will try our best to grab it regardless.
Click to expand...
 
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