So what does a Deity Petra tech order look like?

I've basically never bothered to get Petra because I only play on Deity and just kind of assumed that it wasn't really possible (don't ask why). Now I'm suddenly rolling some decent Petra starts and I have no idea what a rough tech order would look like. Is it just Luxury techs + Writing into Currency? I get Petra before NC right? Grab Philo after Currency finishes and build it then? I realize that this probably sounds stupid but I've just like never even bothered trying to build it lol.

Your instincts are pretty much right already. Gonna assume you want to do it trad style

Writing -> Currency takes about the same time as -> Currency, so... yeah, dead on there.

The rest is an exercise in maxing your production by X turn; all the pop you can get and a set of mines etc on standby, so lots of early workers ... build/buy/steal.

Production; scout -> worker -> scout (if...) -> granary -> caravan (if...) -> library -> watermill/stoneworks/stable (if...) -> (all the archers you can make up to currency) -> !Petra!

The hard part is making it stick after that; settlers to play catch up on expansion or NC to play catch up on tech? Did you have enough luxes/gold luck to upgrade to CB's and buy a settler?

Tech: pottery -> (1-3 lux/worker) -> writing -> currency -> construction (so you have any chance of keeping it) -> philosophy

SP: -> Landed Elite -> (Monarchy if you can do it without delaying Aristo or if you need it for the happy) -> Aristocracy

One weird bit is stone/marble starts. With enough in a start, it can go either way on masonry before or after currency. I've had the math go both ways. Sometimes, buying a stoneworks can be a tipping point.

Even done perfect on a great start, you have to just accept that you may not get it regardless. Another point of failure is, well, lets see.... you have a good start (covet lands), a pretty wonder (covet wonder), and a weak army, so do not be surprised if you get DoW'd within a few turns of finishing it.


Good luck,

Copper

If you have some truly goldy start it could be pretty easy to do.

Even GL+NC+PETRA is possible.
Also you could be very lucky, if no AI willing to build have desert in CAP it will take them ages to build petra.

But the best bet is writing>currency indeed.

I don't think it's viable to get Petra after anything of significance, it goes T50-70 most games and the AI builds it even if they have a single desert tile. I'm not sure that Writing is a worthwhile investment considering the trade caravan science bonuses, and you almost certainly have to skip out on calendar, if not Pottery.

I have tried going for it only once since BNW with Morocco doing exactly what you said (getting Writing and Masonry, then Currency), but it went the turn after I got Currency.

Edit: I think you should skip writing if you can Trade Caravan for science, the library won't shave off much, if anything.

Eh just tried a few games and it's always gone before I even get Currency lol. Guess there's a reason why I never bothered going for it. I just read a bunch of threads about how people get it on Deity but I'm just going to assume that it's not something that happens very often. Thanks anyways though .

What time do you usually finish liberty on Deity? Is it not possible to rush it?

Forget about getting all the lux techs. Writing + beeline to Currency will leave you with only a very small window for building Petra. It's impossible to build it without luck.

The difficult part is that you need luxuries to sell. Because you'll lag in workers / buildings / army / settlers without it.

If you're Venice I noticed that goping optics and grabbing an early CS is worth it. On Deity it gives you a city of good size that will double your early science output

GE from Liberty comes too late, perhaps Poland can do it. You really shouldn't go for Writing or even Pottery I think, have to rely on the Trade Caravan to get the tech and then hope the AI doesn't have a desert start and has to build Petra in a fresh expansion.
I have not gotten it myself in BNW yet even though I'm wonder-lover.

Like the GL, I usually suspect people getting it on deity from reloading early saves when they notice it's not going early then rushing it.

I'm not going to go Liberty just to rush Petra. I don't see how Liberty could possibly finish fast enough though. You generate next-to-no Culture early on and I mean I don't see how you get ~4 cities up and still get Petra. I'm pretty sure that it's just impossible. I also don't think that going Liberty + Petra would even give me a faster win time that plain old Tradition. Desert starts always have fresh water so that means lots of growth. Losing the Tradition bonuses can't possibly be worthwhile. This is especially true if you get Desert Folklore into Swords to Plowshares. You're just missing out on some much growth potential in all of your cities.

Anyways, I rolled a nice desert map last night but since I didn't know a good Petra BO I just saved it. My next game was also a good desert map lol. Saved that one too. Tried them both today, just went Writing -> Currency and Petra was gone before Currency even finished both games. Given that I didn't have any of luxs improved and I was basically screwed I didn't bother playing either. Could just be unlucky but like I'm not going to waste my time if it requires a ton of luck lol. I'd rather just do something safe.

An unmolested AI will always get Petra before you can.

The only times I've managed to get Petra on Deity were after the NC, and it was because I put the only AI that had Desert under a great deal of duress. You need to turn that AI into the game's pariah state. Bribe it into a war, then start bribing other AIs to attack. That should more or less lock your target into perpetual war, which buys a lot of time to get Petra done.

I don't particularly like beelining Currency since it screws up early teching so badly. It's like going for Hanging Gardens, only worse. Even if you get Petra and the from the trade route, you're going to take a lot longer to hit Education than a Philosophy approach. The one possible exception might be Korea (Market specialists) if you don't mind taking the growth/hammer hit to run the specialists for 20-30 turns (thus avoiding popping a GM).

Deity petra tech order looks like: set up embassies in all caps. Do they have desert? Zoom in and look around T45-55 for a standing-horseshoe shape going up. Wave goodbye to Petra.

There are plenty of times AI won't have desert in cap, and if it's in City #2 it seems to go around T75 instead, giving plenty of time if you're beelining to, say, Civil Service.

Can you get Hanging Gardens on Deity?

Not only that, but unmolested AI will usually build Petra before I even researched Currency. I understand the beeline but getting the lux techs seems to take priority in sometimes having to research Sailing, Calendar and Masonry.

It's sometimes possible to get Hanging Gardens on deity because it's policy locked, but it's usually not very good to do that, as the payoff is very small.

If you go for Petra, might as well go for Hanging Gardens as well. It times perfectly together.

The expected value of going for petra is not worth it imo. If you get a good petra start you might sacrifice tons of value for a 25-30% chance at best of getting it.

I think the best you can hope for is to get writing earlier than normal and meet the civs and trade embassies asap so you can at least see if its even an option, then proceed from there. But I think its absurd to base your entire start around it. Getting writing early and sacrificing a bit of embassy gold is about all I'd be willing to ante for this gambit.

After writing just beeline it (I have found it somewhat less-than-desirable even if you do get the wonder since it delays NC by quite a lot) nonetheless... with the right spawn (Inca and terrace farm petra hills on a river next to 3 mountains give like 5 food and 4 production at the end of the game) it could be worth it.

Besides a good capital start and the does an AI with desert exist/have peace question, making it work is also very faction dependent = the only civs I've gotten it with on Deity without just being the only guy with a desert are Shoshone (silly early resource access/ruins streak), Poland (bribed folks to distract, burned to Oracle/Complete Liberty, GE'd it), and Spain (first discovery of Solomon's Mines on turn 3 inside river/desert petra site with 2 flood wheat and a salt). I am about 100% sure that I could have gotten better win times using each of those starts with a more "normal" approach.

Basically, while it is certainly possible, it is not consistent enough to be a "strategy".

It can still be fun though - getting 3 wonders and NC up before turn 100 on Deity is a certain kind of accomplishment, even if your win time is junk.

Thinking on it, odds for me have been something like:

1/3 of starts that I think it is possible I finish it first
1/3 of those starts I don't lose my capital soon afterwards
1/3 of those starts I can actually convert it to enough use to pull ahead/even on science by endgame and get a decent win

= 1/9 overall


I bat about 1/3 on Deity just running straight trad on any half decent start so...

I guess with babylon is easy. Desert start is rare for them thow.