Great writers/artist

anyone uses them for great works?
i always use them for golden age/social policy...
what do u think?

When I'm going for a cultural victory I certainly use them for great works. Although the benefit of a great work from a Musician must be balanced against the benefit from a concert tour if you're closing in on the end.

If you want a culture victory you basically have to.

In Culture games? Absolutely use them for Great Works. You won't be able to generate tourism without them. Musicians, as posted above, need to be weighed against a concert tour.

Non Culture games? Depends on the AI, but I'll usually pop them for Culture/Golden Ages later in the game. Regardless of VC, you definitely need some tourism to counter the other tourism AI and to deal with ideological pressure. Once I feel pretty comfortable with my tourism output, they just get popped.

ixias said:

In Culture games? Absolutely use them for Great Works. You won't be able to generate tourism without them. Musicians, as posted above, need to be weighed against a concert tour.

Non Culture games? Depends on the AI, but I'll usually pop them for Culture/Golden Ages later in the game. Regardless of VC, you definitely need some tourism to counter the other tourism AI and to deal with ideological pressure. Once I feel pretty comfortable with my tourism output, they just get popped.

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@OP

RE : WRITERS
Yes use them all the time. In total culture (so long as it is not the last 1/3 of the game) you do better with great works, particularly if you can put them in a theme. Remember it also gives you tourism which will assist you with IDEOLOGICAL WARFARE later on in the game. Finally it is affected by Civ Wide culture bonus ie +33% in each city or whatever so the results do compound significantly over time.

This should all be balanced against the compounding affects of getting POLCIES earlier of course. Early on though, it is fairly clear cut IMO.

RE : ARTISTS
Similar to above, but really depends on the circumstance.

RE : MUSICIANS
If Culture VICTORY and have a hold out or two (ie ones I will never be able to overwhelm naturally) then I spawn musicians. Otherwise Great Works.

Just my opinion of course

I have a theory but haven't tested it yet.

1. Plant writers.
2. Artist to Golden Ages.
3. Concert bombs.

Do this about 9 out of 10 times with each GP.

You should try to build and fill amphitheaters so that you get border expansion. Just a monument alone is often not enough. I have noticed a new tendency to ignore culture buildings and take consulates instead to help get through policies faster, but this does not help border growth.

I save extra writers for the end game to pop needed policies. I often end up with extras at the end, but I would rather have some extras that suddenly be in need. They are very nice for doing things like poping the rationalism finisher when you want it, getting the 6 free units from freedom when you need it, etc.

GA's I use both for great works and golden ages depending on the AI's in the game.

GM's I never make unless I am doing a CV. I just don't build the musicians guild

Gabriel Pyyrhic said:

@OP

RE : WRITERS
Yes use them all the time. In total culture (so long as it is not the last 1/3 of the game) you do better with great works, particularly if you can put them in a theme. Remember it also gives you tourism which will assist you with IDEOLOGICAL WARFARE later on in the game. Finally it is affected by Civ Wide culture bonus ie +33% in each city or whatever so the results do compound significantly over time.

This should all be balanced against the compounding affects of getting POLCIES earlier of course. Early on though, it is fairly clear cut IMO.

RE : ARTISTS
Similar to above, but really depends on the circumstance.

RE : MUSICIANS
If Culture VICTORY and have a hold out or two (ie ones I will never be able to overwhelm naturally) then I spawn musicians. Otherwise Great Works.

Just my opinion of course

Click to expand...

i found that artifacts give me enough tourism for ideology wars, that`s why i usually use the artists for golden ages.
can u explain the highlighted sentence please?

joshua43214- u mean building amph for the +1 cult and adding GWW for another +2 culture? or is there any other bonus there?

roee1982 said:

i found that artifacts give me enough tourism for ideology wars, that`s why i usually use the artists for golden ages.
can u explain the highlighted sentence please?

joshua43214- u mean building amph for the +1 cult and adding GWW for another +2 culture? or is there any other bonus there?

Click to expand...

If you went Aesthetics, you'll have +33% culture in cities with a World Wonder, but that bonus doesn't apply to Great Writers when you use their ability.

just a quick note about writers. I generally agree with everyone saying they should create works for the most part, in a culture game. However sometimes there is a window of extreme culture generation during the worlds fair, where a political treatise can generate MASSIVE amounts of culture, like enough for 1.5-2 whole social policies. So it might be worth watching out for that if the need for social policies currently outweighs the need for base tourism.

roee1982 said:

i found that artifacts give me enough tourism for ideology wars, that`s why i usually use the artists for golden ages.
can u explain the highlighted sentence please?

joshua43214- u mean building amph for the +1 cult and adding GWW for another +2 culture? or is there any other bonus there?

Click to expand...

mainly for the +1 culture. Artifacts and museums come far too late to help border growth. Since people seem to feel compelled to build the musicians guild, you may as well fill the slots and get the extra culture from it. It seems to me to be just a waste of hammers and pop though.

I find in most game I get enough culture from CS's to get through the policies fast enough, and I just get open borders as soon as possible with all the AI's for cultural defense.

I don't see any reason to get especially worried about cultural defense. I have intentionally played games where I ignored it to see what would happen, and nothing seems to come of it when they get influential. As long as you have done a good job with happiness, you should win before anything bad happens.

When going for cultural victory, I plant most of them for great works early on in the game, then tend to use the special ability more and more the later the game goes. The bonuses you get from them are a lot larger later on, and +2 culture/tourism at that point is a relatively small effect. If you're playing Brazil, you'll especially want to use artists for golden age, since it doubles your tourism as well. Musicians are best used in the late game for concert tours on whichever civ is the leader in culture, and your tourism output is already high, so the concert tour is a lot stronger. Writers are the only one I might create a great work from late in the game, though I generally get more from the big culture boost that lets me snag another policy/tenet instead.

When not going for culture victory, I'll plant musicians and writers early on. You get more culture in the long run from +2 multiplied over 150-200 turns of remaining gameplay than you get from spending the writer on a "culture bomb", and early concert tours are pointless since your tourism generation will be so low. I might plant an artist or two, but tend to use most of them for golden ages instead.

Just a question then, as you mentioned Brazil. The current Tourism only applies to civilizations you've already met, right? So doubling the Tourism before you've met all the Civs is probably not optimal, correct? Might as well wait until you've met all the Civs before using Artists for golden ages.

Have I got this right?

Cheers.

Well, no one was answering , and I'm actually playing as Brazil. I will posit that I'm correct. I did save a couple of Artists until I'd met all the Civs.

Cheers.

I don't mind spawning GMusicians in non-culture games, because the musician specialist in the capital still provides useful culture, and any great people you get out of it can be turned into great works to help late game ideological pressure up. I might get one or two great works of writing up so to pop borders, but beyond that I'd rather political treatise and get my policies up asap. Golden ages are too valuable, I'd rather use artists for that.

I never used any of them in creating huge amount of culture, or golden age or Concert. I don't know why. maybe I'm just too attached to my GP .

My problem with the concert angle is that when I think it may be beneficial AI's with differing ideology already hate me and won't give open borders.

Pretty sure it's possible to declare war and move them into their borders.

Nick Carpathia said:

Pretty sure it's possible to declare war and move them into their borders.

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It's definitely possible, I finished off my last game with a war because one civ wouldn't give me open borders. Well, that and because I didn't want my nukes to go to waste.