Hand-Axe to Knight?

Ozymandias9891

Ozymandias9891

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Watching a playthrough by The Solar Gamer in which he is playing as Germany. He captured a barbarian encampment and got a hand-axe, and then he discovered that it can upgrade to a knight.

Does anyone mind explaining the logic behind that to me?
 
Ozymandias9891 said:
Watching a playthrough by The Solar Gamer in which he is playing as Germany. He captured a barbarian encampment and got a hand-axe, and then he discovered that it can upgrade to a knight.

Does anyone mind explaining the logic behind that to me?
Click to expand...

The computer logic is that the Hand-Axe unit is a barbarian replacement for the Chariot Archer which upgrades to a Knight. As for the human logic of it, somebody else will have to answer that for you.
 
The other half would because that is how it is defined in the xml
 
Because Firaxis think it is funny.
 
Yeah I don't get why it has to replace the CA. It could just as well have been a unique unit class that upgraded to a comp bow. It's a weird setup. Of course it only concerns Germany and anyone who takes that conversion reformation belief so it really isn't a huge deal. Just remember what it upgrades to and don't get too caught up with the ranged promotions, cover would be good ones to go for. It is a neat unit to get as long as you get it early enough. Makes a great barb hunter.
 
If I remember correctly, ranged promotions granting bonus damage now apply to units that upgrade from ranged to melee (e.g. a Keshik upgraded to Cavalry will retain damage bonuses).
 
because it makes sense Chariot Archers upgrade to Keshiks and Camel Archers.

The worst part about that is that any accuracy and barrage upgrades are just lost and do nothing for the knight, yet they take up the 10 30 and 60 exp promotions. So you're basically starting with a no promotion knight who needs 10 times the exp to reach shock 3.
 
You can get 'March' after only 2 other promotions, with melée units it's after 3. So go for that or the 'Cover' promotions as these are the only ones that stays when you upgrade to knights.
 
Um, are we sure the upgrades get lost? See my last post. I thought there was another thread a while ago on that subject stating that after the Fall Patch for GnK upgrades are no longer lost when converting from ranged to melee.
 
how do range promos carry over to melee units. A calvary with plus 15% range attack in flat land. I don't think it carries over
 
I wish the unit at least had more movement. It would make it a more useful chariot replacement.

shaglio said:
The computer logic is that the Hand-Axe unit is a barbarian replacement for the Chariot Archer which upgrades to a Knight. As for the human logic of it, somebody else will have to answer that for you.
Click to expand...

Makes some sense to me. It's basically a foot soldier training to ride a horse and fight that way now. Knights also used all sorts of weapons, including Axes.
 
Biologist said:
The promotion icon still says range if you mouse over it, but it applies as a melee bonus.

Edit: Found the thread I was thinking of, although it looks like I was thinking of a bug and not an actual feature.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=506581&highlight=ranged+promotion
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's been showing up in the combat window for some time but never actually adjusts the combat for melee. I fixed the melee/ranged mix for mounted units in my game by making mounted promotions. Instead of getting Shock/Drill they get Overrun/Engage which gives a bonus for attacking specific unit types instead of terrain.
 
Louis XXIV said:
I wish the unit at least had more movement. It would make it a more useful chariot replacement.
Click to expand...

I think the point of the hand-axe is that it has less movement, and therefore you're not dealing with your trade routes being ruined so early and often.
 
What's the biggest difference between it and an Archer except that the Archer has more range? It seems to me that, with a range of one, three movement seems almost necessary.

I'm thinking more for Germany's sake than fighting the Barbs, though.
 
Sonereal said:
I think the point of the hand-axe is that it has less movement, and therefore you're not dealing with your trade routes being ruined so early and often.
Click to expand...

I'd rather it be that way (constant trade route harassment). It would make far more incentive to clear out barbarian camps that are usually considered "not worth it" (too far away, etc). Granted, I still think Barbarians even on raging still need to be tougher.
 
Biologist said:
Um, are we sure the upgrades get lost? See my last post. I thought there was another thread a while ago on that subject stating that after the Fall Patch for GnK upgrades are no longer lost when converting from ranged to melee.
Click to expand...

yes, they are listed in the battle analysis, but they're not actually applied to the total strength of the unit.

One is a Knight with Accuracy 3, the other is a Knight with Shock 3.

Spoiler :


SemperFi2382 said:
I'd rather it be that way (constant trade route harassment). It would make far more incentive to clear out barbarian camps that are usually considered "not worth it" (too far away, etc). Granted, I still think Barbarians even on raging still need to be tougher.
Click to expand...

Raging barbarians should definitely lose their inherent stat penalties on early units (archer 4 str, spearmen 10), also they should actually always spawn top of the tech tree units. No more brute / archer spawns when longswordsmen and crossbows are out.
 
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