Best alternative to Civ: Fallen Enchantress or Endless Space?

the creative part of the game feels way too generic. Technologies with generic sci-fi names that mean nothing

I read a criticism like this in a review of ES in another place too and it really bothered me. I found the tech names and descriptions very interesting. You can tell that someone with a bit of actual physics education was involved in them, as opposed to so many other things in entertainment which seem to string together words that sound good with no concern for or even knowledge of what the result means. Every tech name and description I saw in Endless Space seems to be a possibility for future technology. Not that any one of them seems particularly likely or anything; I don't think we have any idea what the future holds in that area. It's more that none of them (that I can remember) seemed impossible or "wrong" based on what we currently know, which takes a lot more thought than generically stringing words together.

The different races have different traits which make different victory conditions more favorable as well as different art. I'm just not sure what additional differences you would want.


The game has a lot in common with MoO2 from forever ago. If you loved that game you'll at least get some worthwhile enjoyment out of this one I think. It does unnecessarily retain some fundamental problems from the old one. The ability to build a custom race is ridiculously overpowered. The strength of different starting situations can vary a ton, much more than you would ever see in civ. Technologically similar weapon types are far from equal. Ultimately the game has a lot of balance issues, but as a single player strategy game you do have the option to more or less ignore them and adjust your difficulty according the loopholes you wish to exploit.
 
I found GalCiv2 as an alternative to Civ 5. That really works for me. The design your own ships feature is great.

I couldn't get into ES, not sure why. Sure is pretty, though. Consider that my own personal reaction and listen to others instead.

FE is very interesting. I have never done the fantasy RPG thing before and FE is a nice introduction of that into my general 4X addiction, which I used to think was strictly a Civ addction until Civ V prompted me to look around. FE is looking to grow with community contribution. I think they are on to something there and am excited about it.
 
I too recommend Galactic Civilizations 2, its spiritual successor Sins of a Solar Empire has its fans too.

Gal Civ 2 was well supported by its developers with a lot of info on the blogs. Good AI and the ability to design your own ships as and when necessary. Its a bit old now but dirt cheap.
 
There's a new Endless Space patch today that adds some nice features. I'm not a big fan of the GAMES2GETHER development style, but I do appreciate developers that continue to support their games. :)
 
Galciv2 gameplay was one of the most interesting game i have ever played, but like all Stardock games it is completely devoid of lore which kills the immersion factor.
ES is more light in terms of gameplay but at least has some interesting lore which if expanded together with gameplay mechanics can make it a very good game.
 
Does it have to be a 4x game? Because I can think of tons of awesome steam games that aren't 4x... someone mentioned mass effect 2, awesome game, will keep you busy. Here's a couple categories and my recommendations (all available through steam).

Tower defense - Plants vs Zombies
RPG - Skyrim
RTS - Dawn of War 2 (or any stand alone expansion of it)
FPS - Left 4 Dead 2 (mainly a co-op game)
Action - Mass Effect 2
Action/fantasy rpg - Dragon age origins
 
Fallen Enchantress is a great game. I can see why someone might not like it, but calling it horrible is kinda harsh. War of Magic was horrible, Fallen Enchantress is good. To each their own but I'd suggest giving FE a shot if you're thinking about it.

actually i think of it more like WoM was a failure and FE is just average. it has some great ideas but doesn't do any one thing right in my opinion. not to mention even in the current 1.02 release there are still bugs in there that people have complained about since BETA 1 and even some left over from the WoM engine. A part of me still has some hope it will eventually turn out into a great game though but in reality I believe the game engine is too flawed for that.
 
Hey guys,

I know this is a bit off-topic, but I've been growing slightly tired of Civ. I still plan on playing a lot more, but I've logged 450 hours and would like an alternative. So would you guys recommend Endless Space or Elemental: Fallen Enchantress?

Both are on sale on Steam now, so quick replies are greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Both are fantastic games, with excellent developer support. You can't go wrong with either. Or both. :goodjob:
 
Endless Space was alright. The combat was too simple for my liking,

Can I ask you something: How is the combat in ES any more simple than in the Civ games? I ask because it drives me crazy when people say that the combat in space 4x TBS games is too simple, but no one ever complains that the combat in Civ is too simple. In both games, you have units with a certain strength, fighting based on basically a die roll.

So, comparing ES to Civ, how is the combat more simple? It seems to me that with the addition of the combat strategic choices (cards) you can make in the beginning of the battle, that ES has the more complex system.
 
I can't really speak for the older Civs having not played them, but Civ 5 compared to ES is fairly obvious.

Endless space: Cards are mostly cosmetic. The best strategy is to modify ships with heavy defense and a moderate amount of two weapon types (can apply all three in late-game). The choice of customizing your ships is largely an illusion, so from turn 1 until turn 200, your ships are exactly the same. Just with larger numbers and different models. The killer is that "paths" are set, and nearly all fighting takes place at a single system or two. This removes several strategic elements, such as troop positioning. It breaks down into "put my stack of doom on enemy stack of doom. Whoever has higher numbers wins".

And that describes the game as a whole. Nothing changes throughout the game, just an illusion.

Civ 5: A host of different units with different functions. Ranged, cavalry, siege, naval, air, etc.

If your coast is being bombarded by naval units, you cannot just take your stack of "generic" army and right click. If you march regular infantry towards an enemy base without any air support, you will end up taking a lot of cheap hits.

The strategic elements missing from ES are present: If the enemy is bunkered down on hills in front of a fortress, you can move your military around and strike from the back. If the enemy is sending troops longer distances, you can ambush reinforcements from the middle, or cut off retreats. You can actually manipulate the battlefield and map.

Civ 5 has its "same deal, just larger numbers" as well. A warrior is a swordsman is a rifleman is infantry. But the combination of all the elements as a whole is far more strategic and complex than Endless Space.
 
I can't really speak for the older Civs having not played them, but Civ 5 compared to ES is fairly obvious.

Endless space: Cards are mostly cosmetic. The best strategy is to modify ships with heavy defense and a moderate amount of two weapon types (can apply all three in late-game). The choice of customizing your ships is largely an illusion, so from turn 1 until turn 200, your ships are exactly the same. Just with larger numbers and different models. The killer is that "paths" are set, and nearly all fighting takes place at a single system or two. This removes several strategic elements, such as troop positioning. It breaks down into "put my stack of doom on enemy stack of doom. Whoever has higher numbers wins".

And that describes the game as a whole. Nothing changes throughout the game, just an illusion.

So, Civ IV? Isn't that the best game ever around these parts? :)

Anyway, you're grossly oversimplifying. You might be able to get away with just about any ship on Normal, but you aren't going to get away with that on Impossible or Endless. Not since the Automatons patch, anyway. The AI isn't quite as stupid as it once was, though admittedly, it's still pretty bad. But bad AI seems pretty typical for 4X games since the complexity is so high.

Of course, the end goal is to make a bunch of Dreadnaught-class ships with über armor and weapons and then support them with some buffed up Battleships or Destroyers, but so what? There are constant end-game units in Civ V, too.

Civ 5: A host of different units with different functions. Ranged, cavalry, siege, naval, air, etc.

If your coast is being bombarded by naval units, you cannot just take your stack of "generic" army and right click. If you march regular infantry towards an enemy base without any air support, you will end up taking a lot of cheap hits.

Eh...

Your archers, artillery, etc. can definitely destroy naval units. Those are generally part of the "generic army". Air only matters in the last 1/4th of the game. Don't get me wrong -- I love the tactical, 1UPT aspect of Civ V. I think that it's a vast improvement over the stacks of doom on Civ IV. But I'm not going to hold ES to that standard because it's not the same kind of game. How would something like 1UPT even work in space?

ES could definitely improve upon the system invasion feature, though. Then, we could have ground combat where tactical gameplay makes more sense. That's one of the possible features being discussed for the first expansion. I hope it gets in!

The strategic elements missing from ES are present: If the enemy is bunkered down on hills in front of a fortress, you can move your military around and strike from the back. If the enemy is sending troops longer distances, you can ambush reinforcements from the middle, or cut off retreats. You can actually manipulate the battlefield and map.

There's some of this in Endless Space, though. If you see a ship heading for a specific system, you can meet him there because you know that he can't turn around without first reaching that system. If you see a wormhole, you can position a fleet there to ensure that nobody gets through. You can strategically position fleets on enemy systems to blockade his access to key resources.

I guess my overall point is that the combat in ES isn't amazing, but then neither is the combat in Civ V. In fact, combat is probably the worst aspect of every 4X game that I've played. That's probably why I prefer non-domination victories for the most part. But if you're into the other three Xs (exploration, expansion, exploitation), then ES is a pretty decent game at a pretty decent price. Or, it was. $15 is a good price for ES. $30 is probably asking too much.
 
Well, there's a Endless Space free weekend going on Steam right now. Good chance to try it out for yourself.
 
I can't really speak for the older Civs having not played them, but Civ 5 compared to ES is fairly obvious.

Endless space: Cards are mostly cosmetic. The best strategy is to modify ships with heavy defense and a moderate amount of two weapon types (can apply all three in late-game). The choice of customizing your ships is largely an illusion, so from turn 1 until turn 200, your ships are exactly the same. Just with larger numbers and different models. The killer is that "paths" are set, and nearly all fighting takes place at a single system or two. This removes several strategic elements, such as troop positioning. It breaks down into "put my stack of doom on enemy stack of doom. Whoever has higher numbers wins".

And that describes the game as a whole. Nothing changes throughout the game, just an illusion.

Civ 5: A host of different units with different functions. Ranged, cavalry, siege, naval, air, etc.

If your coast is being bombarded by naval units, you cannot just take your stack of "generic" army and right click. If you march regular infantry towards an enemy base without any air support, you will end up taking a lot of cheap hits.

The strategic elements missing from ES are present: If the enemy is bunkered down on hills in front of a fortress, you can move your military around and strike from the back. If the enemy is sending troops longer distances, you can ambush reinforcements from the middle, or cut off retreats. You can actually manipulate the battlefield and map.

Civ 5 has its "same deal, just larger numbers" as well. A warrior is a swordsman is a rifleman is infantry. But the combination of all the elements as a whole is far more strategic and complex than Endless Space.

That's a new battle concept in Civ V. Previous Civs were all stack of doom vs stack of doom, which is fine in a 4x game, these aren't tactical battle games after all. And still, all of your units in the civ games are 'set'. You can't customize them all. In ES, I can upgrade my ships a myriad of ways to be more effective in attack and defense against my enemies. A warrior in Civ, will always just be a warrior (except for a few promotions). In FE, a warrior style unit can be customized with many different weapons, abillities, magical items and weapons, newer armor and can be cosmetically customized as well. Of all 4x TBS games, Civ really has the most simplistic battle system (which doesn't bother me at all, I'm not a warmonger). But for some reason, it gets a pass, while other games are criticized as having combat that is too simple.

Also, in ES, the customizations you make and the 'cards' (I hate that term, I prefer 'battle strategies') you choose definitely have a profound impact on the battles.
 
In ES, I can upgrade my ships a myriad of ways to be more effective in attack and defense against my enemies.

It tends to be illusion of choice. You can try to game the system by having specialized craft, but in stacks of doom the "high defense with moderate varied weapons" becomes the only practical option. The cards felt almost like a gimmick to me. Either you were ahead in tech and fleet numbers, or you weren't. I suppose if everything was absolutely equal, cards may have some impact, but again not practical.

In FE, a warrior style unit can be customized with many different weapons, abillities, magical items and weapons, newer armor and can be cosmetically customized as well.

I haven't had a chance to fully explore that game yet, but my initial reaction was the customization was its best feature.

Of all 4x TBS games, Civ really has the most simplistic battle system (which doesn't bother me at all, I'm not a warmonger). But for some reason, it gets a pass, while other games are criticized as having combat that is too simple.

Like I said, I haven't played the older civs. I was a big RTS player before getting into 4X TBS, so it is quite likely I am biased towards some of the tactical level play in Civ 5. I understand your point and from what I've seen of past Civ games, there probably was little to no difference. But going from Civ 5 to ES, the combat just felt way too simplistic. Most of the time I didn't even pay attention to anything, I just sent fleets straight towards enemy systems and clicked auto-finish whenever the window came up (no need for cards, my numbers were bigger).

At least in Civ 5 I have to pay a little attention--making sure I am keeping ranged and siege out of the way, and trying to exploit terrain advantage.
 
I think I'll try out fallen enchantress. Sounds like a complete hidden gem. Didn't hear about this at all in some of the game sites I visit. Customization looks madly addictive. Dividing tech trees in 3 sections looks interesting. Feels like a kid in Christmas again. :>

Thank you MadDjinn as usual. Your LPs are like the only ones I enjoy with since all the other ones have pretty thick European accents I can barely understand. :x
 
Endless Space is shallow and after the initial charm of the graphics, system overview, etc. you realize it's basically just a more complex tower defense game. Diplomacy is weak, combat gets atrociously boring and predictable(not to mention very very little decision making), and the tech tree ends up being uninspired. MoO it is not, not even close to GalCiv, which had its own issues.

E:FE only got "good" reviews because it's essentially a remake of the terrible Elemental. Reviewed on its own though, the game is mediocre at best. If you want a game in that vein you'd be much better off playing the older games like MoM, Age of Wonders, or even Warlords.

P.S. When I say ES combat is "simple and boring" I am mostly thinking of MoO, which near the end game got a little tedious, but the process of designing ships for literally 100s of potential roles(whether or not they were viable) and configurations and then testing them in space combat or planet subjugation blows ES out of the water. It's just hard taking a system like that seriously, when a game made over a decade ago is still better.
 
Many thanks for all the replies. Keep 'em coming if you have something to add. Anyways, I'm gonna try the Endless Space free weekend on Steam, which will hopefully resolve my dilemma :)
 
Steam currently has Endless Space to play for free til Sunday (probably a demo) and its 50% off til its over.
 
E:FE only got "good" reviews because it's essentially a remake of the terrible Elemental. Reviewed on its own though, the game is mediocre at best.

Wrong. FE is a fantastic game and is a hell of a lot better than Civ V IMO. It's everything that WoM should have been and wasn't...I suggest interested parties watch some recent playthrough videos, or read some AAR's like this one:

http://forums.elementalgame.com/437040
 
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